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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Hand a Half Training is really interesting. I suspect we'll see the current Juggernaut 16 Artificer/2 Monk/2 Ranger build move from THF to TWF, dual wielding Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes. The Exotic Weapon Prof isn't even needed since you don't get glancing blows when dual wielding, and the -4 to hit is offset by the +4 hit from Hand and Half Training. You also have the option of dipping into Tempest for +2 hit/dmg, 10 PRR, Sprint Boost and 3[W] melee bleed.

    Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes is now a bonus feat option for Artificers.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

  2. #42
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    I'll echo the others who said this:

    Wand heightening is useless and pointless. 100% of mobs save against them at high levels anyway, and will with +3 (lol) DC, so no one uses them. Plus they dont do enough damage.

    Making us spend AP on them is a tax, pure and simple, to get scroll mastery. Eliminate this.

    Also put UMD skill bonuses back in somewhere.
    Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak

  3. #43
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    Can someone make a post on the Artificer's Enhancements like the rest of the "official" discussions? Along with any others that come out...

    It'd be nice to see all the choices and such for those of us who don't feel like spending two days downloading the second client (again).

  4. #44
    Community Member Arddhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peo View Post
    Can someone make a post on the Artificer's Enhancements like the rest of the "official" discussions? Along with any others that come out...

    It'd be nice to see all the choices and such for those of us who don't feel like spending two days downloading the second client (again).
    /signed

    I am with Windows 8 and unable to download Lama due Pando problems... not cool! I would love to see the tree and stuff.

  5. #45
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    Found it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    BATTLE ENGINEER


    Core Abilities

    Battle Engineer
    Your equipped rune arm grants you +8 Universal Spell Power when it is charged to Charge Tier 1.
    AP Cost: 0
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Infused Weapons
    Your equipped weapon in your main hand gains +1 to its Enhancement bonus. Additonally, you gain +1 bonus to your attack roll to confirm a critical hit, and a +1 bonus to the damage of your critical hits (before multipliers). Your equipped rune arm grants you an additonal +8 Universal Spell Power when it is charged to Charge Tier 2, for a total of +16.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 5 AP spent in tree, Battle Engineer

    Infused Armor
    Your equipped armor gains +1 to its Enhancement bonus. Additionally, your equipped armor grants you +5 PRR and -10% ASF. (Artificer Infusions are not affected by ASF, but this assists with scroll use.) Your equipped rune arm grants you an additonal +8 Universal Spell Power when it is charged to Charge Tier 3, for a total of +24.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 6, 10 AP spent in tree, Infused Weapons rank 1

    Infused Weapons
    Your equipped weapon in your main hand gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus, for a total of +2. You also gain an additonal +1 bonus to your attack roll to confirm a critical hit, and a +1 bonus to the damage of your critical hits (before multipliers), for a total of +2. Your equipped rune arm grants you an additonal +8 Universal Spell Power when it is charged to Charge Tier 4, for a total of +32.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 12, 20 AP spent in tree, Infused Armor rank 1

    Infused Armor
    Your equipped armor gains an additonal +1 to its Enhancement bonus, for a total of +2. Your equipped armor also grants you an additional +5 PRR for a total of +10 and an additional -10% ASF for a total of -20%. (Artificer Infusions are not affected by ASF, but this assists with scroll use.) Your equipped rune arm grants you an additonal +8 Universal Spell Power when it is charged to Charge Tier 5, for a total of +40.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 18, 30 AP spent in tree, Infused Weapons rank 2

    Master Engineer
    You gain +2 Intelligence. The Enhancement bonus of your armor and your equipped weapon in your main hand are each increased by an additional +1, for a total of +3. Your equipped weapon in your main hand is now a Spellcasting Implement, providing a +3 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power for every +1 Enhancement bonus on the weapon.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 20, 40 AP spent in tree, Infused Armor rank 2


    Battle Engineer: Tier 1

    Weapon Training
    Select one of the following:
    - Crossbow Training: +1 to attack rolls with crossbows. +1 to damage with non-repeating crossbows.
    - Hand and a Half Training: +1 to attack and damage rolls with Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Field Engineer
    +1/2/3 Concentration, Disable Device and Open Locks
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Attack Boost
    Activate this ability to gain +4/6/8 Action Boost bonus to your attack rolls for 20 seconds.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Thermal Venting
    You have optimized the magical venting of your rune arms. After firing, your cooldown is 10/20/30% faster.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Item Defense
    You have a 25/50/75% chance to negate potential item wear.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 1


    Battle Engineer: Tier 2

    Weapon Training
    Select one of the following:
    - Crossbow Training: +1 attack with crossbows, +1 to damage with repeating crossbows, +2 damage with non-repeating crossbows.
    - Hand and a Half Training: +1 to attack and damage rolls with Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree, Weapon Training tier 1

    Wrack Construct
    Choose one of the following, both of which do On Damage: Deals 1/3/5d6 extra damage to constructs and living constructs, and applies Wracked: This construct's or living construct's fortification is reduced by 10% and loses its inherent immunity to sneak attack. This effect stacks up to 5 times.
    - Melee Wrack Construct
    - Ranged Wrack Construct
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree

    Damage Boost
    Activate this ability to receive a +10/20/30% Action Boost bonus to damage 20 seconds.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree

    Thaumaturgical Conduits
    You have made improvements to the efficiency of your rune arms. Your rune arms build charge 10/20/33% faster.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree


    Battle Engineer: Tier 3

    Weapon Training
    Select one of the following:
    - Crossbow Training: +1 to attack rolls with crossbows. +1 to damage with non-repeating crossbows.
    - Hand and a Half Training: +1 to attack and damage rolls with Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree, Weapon Training tier 2

    Disable Construct
    Activate: Target construct or living construct is dazed for 10/20/30 seconds. This effect is removed on damage. Using this ability on a target already effected by it will extend the duration. (Cooldown: 25 seconds)
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree

    Extra Action Boost
    You can use each of your action boost 1/2/3 additional time(s) per rest.
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree

    Arcane Capacitors
    When moving, your Rune Arm's charge decays 25% slower than normal.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree, Thaumaturgical Conduits rank 1

    Ability Point
    Select one of the following:
    - Strength +1
    - Dexterity +1
    - Intelligence +1
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree


    Battle Engineer: Tier 4

    Weapon Training
    Select one of the following:
    - Crossbow Training: +1 attack with crossbows, +1 to damage with repeating crossbows, +2 damage with non-repeating crossbows.
    - Hand and a Half Training: +1 to attack and damage rolls with Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree, Weapon Training tier 3

    Battle Mastery
    Select one of the following Action Boosts:
    - Endless Fusilade: Enchant your crossbow to instantly reload itself for 6 seconds.
    - Haste Boost: Receive a 30% Action Boost attack speed bonus for 20 seconds.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree, Weapon Training tier 4

    Rune Arm Overcharge
    The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased to charge tier 2.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree

    Arcane Capacitors
    When moving, your Rune Arm's charge decays 50% slower than normal.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree, Arcane Capacitors tier 3

    Ability Point
    Select one of the following:
    - Strength +1
    - Dexterity +1
    - Intelligence +1
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree


    Battle Engineer: Tier 5

    Weapon Attachment
    Activate to attach your currently equipped weapons to youself, giving you superior control over them. Until you unequip these items or rest, they deal +0.5[W] damage. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 5, 40 AP spent in tree, Weapon Training tier 4, and one of: Construct Essence (feat), Warforged traits

    Rune Arm Overcharge
    The patterns of magic making up your rune arm are clearer to you than ever. Your stable charge tier is increased to charge tier 3.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 5, 40 AP spent in tree, Rune Arm Overcharge tier 4

    Tactical Mobility
    Charging your rune arm no longer causes you to move at reduced speed.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 5, 40 AP spent in tree, Rune Arm Overcharge tier 5, Arcane Capacitor tier 4




    ARCANOTECHNICIAN


    Core Abilities

    Arcanotechnician
    Every point spent in the Arcanotechnician tree provides you with +1 Universal Spell Power.
    AP Cost: 0
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Palliative Admixture
    Creating an infused potion of magical energy, you hurl it towards your target in an arc. The potion explodes in a small area that provides nearby allies with 20 Temporary Hit Point and 10 Temporary Spell Points. These last one minute, or until affected creatures rest. (Cost: 5 spell points. Cooldown: 12 seconds.)
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 5 AP spent in tree, Arcanotechnician

    Thaumaturgical Battery
    Whenever you cast an infusion or spell, you capture a portion of that infusion or spells' energy as 1 Temporary Spell Point. This Temporary Spell Points lasts for one minute, until consumed by another infusion or spell, or until you rest.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 6, 10 AP spent in tree, Palliative Admixture

    Lightning Bolt
    The spell Lightning Bolt is added to your spellbook as a level 3 Artificer spell.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 12, 20 AP spent in tree, Thaumaturgical Battery

    Critical Admixture
    Creating an infused potion of magical energy, you hurl it towards your target in an arc. The potion explodes in a small AOE that deals 6d8+8 positive energy damage to nearby living allies and enemy undead. This infusion is effected by Artificer Knowledge: Potions. This SLA requires no material components. (Cost: 5 spell points. Cooldown: 8 seconds.)
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 18, 30 AP spent in tree, Lightning Bolt

    Arcane Empowerment
    The patterns of the most complex magical formulae are like children's drawings to you. You gain +2 Intelligence and +5 Spellcraft. You treat any non-scroll activated equipped item that casts spells (such as wands, rods, armor, or other activated items) as if they were staves, increasing their caster level as equal to yours as well as increasing Save DCs to (10 + your Intelligence bonus + level of spell) if it would be an improvement. These increases are applied after Artificer Knowledge, so do not stack.
    AP Cost: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 20, 40 AP spent in tree, Critical Admixture


    Arcanotechnician: Tier 1

    Lightning Sphere
    You may cast the spell Lightning Sphere at will as an SLA. You may use Metamagic Feats with SLAs at no additional cost. (Cost: 8/6/4 spell points. Cooldown: 15/10/5 seconds.)
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Energy of Creation
    Your studies have increased your maximium Spell Points by 30/60/90.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Uncaring Master
    Your Iron Defender is expendable in your eyes - you can always rebuild it later. You no longer take damage or lose spell points when it dies.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Spell Critical
    Your Electric, Fire, and Force spells have additional 1% to critically hit.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 1

    Wand Heightening
    Add +1/2/3 to the save DCs of your offensive wands.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 1


    Arcanotechnician: Tier 2

    Efficient Metamagic
    Choose one of the following:
    - Efficient Empower: Empower Spell costs 2/4/6 fewer spell points.
    - Efficient Quicken: Quicken costs 1/2/4 fewer spell points.
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree

    Imbued Defender
    Your Iron Defender gains +5/10/15 PRR and 5/10/15% doublestrike.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree

    Spell Critical
    Your Electric, Fire, and Force spells have additional 1% to critically hit.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree, Spell Critical tier 1

    Wand and Scroll Mastery
    +25/50/75% to the effectiveness of your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells.
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 2, 5 AP spent in tree, Wand Heightening of same rank


    Arcanotechnician: Tier 3

    Efficient Metamagic
    Choose one of the following:
    - Efficient Empower: Empower Spell costs 2/4/6 fewer spell points.
    - Efficient Quicken: Quicken costs 1/2/4 fewer spell points.
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree, Efficient Metamagic tier 2 of same rank

    Repair Systems
    You have installed automated repair systems in your Iron Defender. It repairs 1 point of damage every 18/12/ seconds. At rank 2: Every 6 seconds, your Iron Defender will slightly repair you. At rank 3: Every 6 seconds, your Iron Defender will slightly repair you and any nearby allies.
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree, Imbued Defender of same rank

    Spell Critical
    Your Electric, Fire, and Force spells have additional 1% to critically hit.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree, Spell Critical tier 2

    Intelligence
    +1 Intelligence
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 3, 10 AP spent in tree


    Arcanotechnician: Tier 4

    Blast Rod
    You may cast the spell Blast Rod at will as an SLA. You may use Metamagic Feats with SLAs at no additional cost. (Cost: 12/8/6 spell points. Cooldown: 18/12/6 seconds.)
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree, Lightning Sphere of same rank

    Efficient Heighten
    Using the Heighten Spell Metamagic costs you 1/2 fewer Spell Point(s) per heightened level.
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 2
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree, Efficient Metamagic tier 3 of same rank

    Arcane Engine
    You have carved arcane symbols on the core engine of your Iron Defender, allowing you to channel Arcane energies through him. As long as you remain near your Iron Defender, he will provide you with 3/6/10 Universal Spell Power.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree, Repair Systems of same rank

    Spell Critical
    Your Electric, Fire, and Force spells have additional 1% to critically hit.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree, Spell Critical tier 3

    Intelligence
    +1 Intelligence
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 4, 20 AP spent in tree


    Arcanotechnician: Tier 5

    Lightning Motes
    You may cast the spell Lightning Motes at will as an SLA. You may use Metamagic Feats with SLAs at no additional cost. (Cost: 4/3/2 spell points. Cooldown: 12/8/4 seconds.)
    AP Cost: 2 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 5, 40 AP spent in tree, Blast Rod of same rank

    Master Defender
    Your Iron Defender gain +2/4/6 to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. In addition, as long as you remain near your Iron Defender, he will provide you with 1/2/3% Dodge.
    AP Cost: 1 per rank
    Ranks: 3
    Requires: Artificer level 5, 40 AP spent in tree, Arcane Engine of same rank

    Evocation Focus
    You have trained extensively in Evocation magic, granting a +1 bonus to your spell DCs of that school.
    AP Cost: 2
    Ranks: 1
    Requires: Artificer level 5, 40 AP spent in tree

  6. #46
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    Also repair line enhancements are nowhere to be found. My arty repairs himself for 150 hp less than he does on live.

  7. #47
    The Hatchery dejafu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrst.grok View Post
    Also repair line enhancements are nowhere to be found. My arty repairs himself for 150 hp less than he does on live.
    Do you have any points in the Repair skill? If not, may want to LR and see if maxing that out gets you back to your old repair levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Turning Ghostbane into a meme is, in my book, the best thing to happen to DDO in awhile.

  8. #48
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    I got some questions on the new Enhancements.

    1. Does the Infused Bonus apply to the Runearm shots them selves?
    Lamiania testing could answer this easy enough.

    2. Will we see Acid based Critical Enhancements?
    You know, given the number of acid based runearms

    3. Are/Will the SLA's Save DCs operate as the Wizard/Sorcerer ones do live?
    Between DDO's wonky DC rules and the Artificer capping at 16+Int, it's faster to TR to a Wizard and come back to kill the creature than it is stand there tossing bombs.

  9. #49

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    I will throw in my support for combining the wand heightening with the wand and scroll mastery. It really just seems like a penalty to get to wand and scroll mastery. Combine them like the cleric version please. With them combined you could instead put something more useful, like say an increased chance to not spend a wand charge in that spot, something like a 5%/10%/15% increased chance to not spend a wand charge combined with the +1/+2/+3 wand DC's would make this feel like MUCH less of an additional toll and something that someone might actually appreciate. Perhaps even additional caster level with wands as well. Think about how players actually use wands in game: I personally use them (on live) for stoneskin (CL 20 will go away with new enhancements, this makes me sad but I understand), blur, and shield. I used cure/repair X wands at lower levels before the Heal/Reconstruct scrolls.

    I really can't ever remember using a wand offensively in earnest. That is what we have repeating crossbows for. The DC's are too bad to use for something like web and the small +1/+2/+3 DC bonus will not truly help that. You never hear of someone running wizard lives for that sweet sweet wand DC bonus, do you?

    Actually, with the new ranged doublestrike actually working, what would be cool would be adding a chance to have the wand perform a double-cast. There is already the dual wand wielder in PnP, so this could basically have a chance to use 2 charges and cast the wand's spell twice. I don't know how hard that would be code-wise, but I think players would enjoy it since it saves wand whipping time. You would have to make it only work with offensive and healing wands though (I don't need a dual shield or stoneskin, but a dual web, lightning bolt, or repair is useful). Alternatively, having an enhancement that lowered the cooldown on all items (wands, scrolls, clickies, etc.) would be good as well so that way you can spam them faster to make up for the lower effectiveness. You could make it mirror the wand and scroll mastery and have a 25%/50%/75% reduction in the cooldown of the item.
    Last edited by BananaHat; 04-14-2013 at 10:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    I've never seen someone at a tabletop game say "I jump up on the wall until I get stuck in a spot where I can hit the giant but he can't hit me back for no apparent reason."

  10. #50
    Community Member Zuka's Avatar
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    I read through this whole thread and I am blown away by the fact that no one mentioned that the arcanotechnician loses the runearm overcharging line and is stuck with a max of one tier charge while in motion, this is absolutely not cool. I've been playing a caster styled artificer since their release, it's been enough of a struggle to defend my character as it stands since everyone seems to think arti is only a buffbot with a crossbow, but now I lose basically my only casting versatility, I'm not going to be able to effectively use acid from a rune-arm (no arti spells have it) or Cold, Or light damage, I mean really the only force damage in the class at all is blade barrier (not good for raid bosses, btw) and tactical detonation, which is minimal compared to a runearm. In the end my runearm has been my best friend for a long time now, it has supported and expanded my casting abilities as far back as arti's have existed at all and I am intensely stunned that the casting prestige for arti doesn't at all include runearm enhancements.

    As far as wand and scroll mastery, yes, please detach them from heightening, even through all of my time struggling to make the perfect casterficer, I have literally NEVER used an offensive wand for more than flavor, when I want something effective I ditch the wand all-together.

    I love the new pet enhancements, but they really should be in a tree for the pet.

    As regards the SLA's
    These are a nice plus, however I haven't used the electric orb in a LONG time and really don't need it to be an SLA, I have enough SP to use the actual spells for the others and have for a long time, those are nice but not really important, why still no eladar's it makes perfect sense on an arti, I'd really like to see more diversity in arti spells not just re-hashes of spells we can already use to our heart's content and the lightning bolt is just another timer, it's not a better spell than the ones we already have and I don't see how it's useful, this would be a perfect one to replace with Eladar's, don't get me wrong I already have trouble with too few level 5 spell slots, but I would be okay with adding eladars to my list rather than one of my others level 5 spells.

    Please open up both prestige lines for the arti, I noticed with cleric and fighter (didn't play a ranger) that I could mix and match from both class trees allowing me to customize my build how I saw fit, with the arti I am trapped, I want to buff my runearm, but I want to be a caster, yet i can only invest in one line at a time and therefore cannot do both, I'm not asking for both capstones here, I just want to have a little flexibility in how I build my character and not be stuck in one prestige or the other as I always have, certainly not when most of the better abilities are isolated to a tree that doesn't really compliment the approach I would like to use.
    Last edited by Zuka; 04-14-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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  11. #51
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejafu View Post
    Do you have any points in the Repair skill? If not, may want to LR and see if maxing that out gets you back to your old repair levels.
    The release notes only states it will add to the repair spell power, so 23 ranks+15 item+4 from gh is nowhere near the spellpower it is now on live.

    While I understand, why they try to make the repairskill useful - I think it's a bad idea to tie spellpower to a skill you cannot just reset if you find it lacking.. There is no way other than tr'ing to get rid of it.

  12. #52
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    I would combine the wand heightening with the scroll enhancements, then split them into two tiers if you feel it is too powerful to top have all on tier 1.

    That said, I think scroll enhancements are such a core ability that they should be available on all artificer trees.

    I would suggest a tier 1 ability in the arcanotechnician, and tier 2 in battle engineer.
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  13. #53
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    Default Closed? Already?

    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    *snip*
    While the Artificer Survey is now closed...
    *snip*
    Wow - why are the class-specific survey forms closed so soon? I just got done with some prelim evaluations of the Ftr, Rgr, and Art yesterday (Sunday), and have not had time to organize/post my thoughts, let alone fill-out a class survey. The racial survey was still open (when I checked it and tried to fill it out earlier today), but the class surveys are closed??

    I would think class EN would take longer to evaluate, thus the forms should be open "longer" than the racial forms (or "at least as long"). Remember - not all of us are in the same time zone (let alone same part of the world) or "live" on the fora (sorry, "forums"), so it takes some of us a bit longer to get to things there.

    Just because "we" don't camp out in the fora (sorry, "forums") doesn't mean we don't care or don't have opinions - we just need a little more time, sometimes.
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  14. #54
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting the PrEs whoever took the time to do it.

    Just a few comments on these trees ..battle engineer is a more pricey version of what we have now with less spell power...lame...the other one is just horrible junk...where the heck is the third artificer tree? The devs had years to do these. Plenty of time to do the bare min of 3 PRE per class.

    Overall, better then cleric because the bar was so low there that it was almost impossible to go lower but hardly acceptable.
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  15. #55
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    Battle engineer looks great! Arcanotechnician seems weak compared to battle engineer. I'd give arcanos eladars electric surge in their spellbook at the 6th core.

    Combine wand heightening into wand and scroll mastery in the 2nd tier.
    They need something more besides that but I'm not sure what it is... perhaps duplicate some of the rune arm stuff between battle engineer and arcanotechnician since that is the main theme of artificers (sort of like having a general tree).

  16. #56
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    {Note to Trolls: Remember, this is a feedback thread. As such, these are *my* comments, based on *my* play style and *my* builds. Disagree with me? Fine. But don't bother trying to troll me, 'cuz I'm not listening...}

    Let's get right to it, shall we?


    Pros:

    The new UI is nice. It is more intuitive than the lists. With the introduction of EDs, and the EN following a similar design (though may the reverse is true?) it is somewhat "familiar" and not something completely new.


    Cons - General:

    1) There are a few Artificer enhancements that are “general” in nature and not PrE specific (e.g. Uncaring Master, Item Defense, etc.). They should either be given their own “general” panel (I really dislike the description “tree”, because it's not that accurate; there are “trees” in the panels, yes, but the panels themselves are not really “trees”. Still, it is what it is.) *OR* they should be marked (with an asterisk, maybe?) in the panels they are located and if the “AP spent” prerequisites are kept (please, don't), the APs used on them should count in all the class panels/trees.

    2) Speaking of AP spending requirements, AP Spending requirements suck. If you want to limit "when" certain ENs are available, do so by toon/class level.


    Cons – BE Specific:

    1) Level 1 of “Crossbow Training” doesn't apply the damage bonus to repeating crossbows; initially I thought all tiers of “x-bow training” omitted repeaters, but I see it skips and every other one does. If you invest in all of the available x-bow training, you will end up with non-repeaters getting +4/+4, while repeaters only get +4/+2 (to hit/damage). While I understand the thought behind this (repeaters do shoot three bolts per round), I don't particularly like it. If each tier applied the +1 damage, as for non-repeating x-bows, it can make repeaters over powered at low levels, but at high levels, not so much (in my opinion). But it is what it is and I doubt it will change. Or perhaps if the 1st and 3rd (rather than the 2nd and 4th) were to apply to repeaters as well? That would at least give the "illusion" of repeaters being treated equally.

    2) “Haste Boost” is a bit misleading. It is shown with the “passive feat” symbol, but is an “action boost”, which is “active”, not passive. It's this way on live too, but it should be fixed.


    Cons – AT Specific:

    1) “Wand/Scroll Mastery” requires a minimum of one rank of “Wand Heightening”. Why? What do wands have to do with scrolls? Why not make them the same tier?

    2) As stated above, “Uncaring Master” (especially) and “Energy of Creation” are really more “general” EN (though I can see why “EoC” was put under AT).

    3) “Blast Rod” (as spell-like ability) at tier 4, “Lightning Motes” (as spell-like ability) at tier 5. Seems a bit excessive, compared to the level of spells they are. Perhaps T2, T4? Or T3/T4?


    I do like a lot of the proposed items of BE. With AT being a new PrE, I would need more time to test it better. But that's not going to happen, this round.
    Last edited by ComicRelief; 04-16-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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  17. #57
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    Battle Engineer

    I think it's a bit off that Battle Engineer's capstone is + to spell power via implement bonus, given that apart from that, it's the weapon / rune arm PRE. I'd consider changing the capstone to a sizeable (25%ish) bonus to rune arm damage.

    Apart from that I think Battle Engineer's pretty solid, albeit, like with literally every PRE I've read so far, I'd tone down AP costs drastically. I'd also, incidentally, tone down the AP threshold for Tier 5 abilities from 40 to something more reasonable like 30.

    That allows for getting T5 abilities from 2 trees instead of just 1. Given that revising the 80AP per character limit is not under serious consideration, please at least revise the threshold AP spent requirement for T5 abilities. Limiting every character to choose T5 abilities from a single prestige class tree only is extremely restrictive.

    I'm fine with having a single capstone per character, and am pro the 40 points spent in a tree and pure 20 in whatever class it is to access that, but this 40 points for both the 1 capstone and to access tier 5 is very restrictive.


    Arcanotechnician

    "+1% crit chance on elements" is pretty uninspired (Use Ranks!). That it's listed on 4 separate tiers is lame.
    My fix: Change at least one of them to +spell power (possibly more; raw spell power I could handle being repeated with 3 ranks a pop on multiple tiers), and add ranks to the +crit chance ability - at the moment it feels a bit lazy.

    Efficient metamagic being repeated is a bit urg. (Use Ranks!)

    +Int being repeated is also a bit urg - less so though (Use Ranks?)

    Tier 5 is generally lame. I've already complained about the 40 point requisite threshold, so won't again, but it's an awful design mechanic to say "if you want the arcanotechnician capstone, then you cannot have T5 abilities from anywhere else".

    If all Tier 5's prestige classes had one or two awesome abilities, I'd be more sympathetic, but they simply don't, and I think it would be darn hard to design that many interesting abilities too. Given that, please lower the T5 threshold to 30 points, that way (as a pure class) I can choose the 1 capstone I want, and have at least the modicum of choice in potentially having T5 in another tree.

    Anyway, on the T5 stuff:
    Lightning Motes. Weird choice. It's primarily a debuff, as evinced by the fact it does less damage than blast rod. While I certainly would use it for nuking under this system, it's just a bit odd. Prismatic Strike would be infinitely more interesting in my opinion.

    Master Defender. Yeah, doggy just isn't going to be viable in EE ever or the game would become unbalanced. I can handle this, but instead of the + to stats, which is never going to be the difference between functional and not, go with something cool like 'Magical Haste Cogs: +50% move speed'. I think I and many players would actually get that despite it not being a good min/max decision.

    Evocation focus +1. A single rank. And artificers again don't cut it in EE. Give it ranks and I'm on board.

    Core Abilities:
    Universally pretty awesome. This is what's so frustrating about the rest of the tree being smelly.

    I'm on board with the dog 'getting stuff', though I think it universally could be stronger, especially the T5 ability. I really like the 'lots of SLAs' schtick... just, yeah. Raw spell power would help. Actual DC increases would help.

    It just needs 'more'. The repeated abilities are... demoralizing.

    Go nuts and put in a Static Shock SLA too, the dog bonus stats at lower tiers, maybe another bonus spell for the arti spell book (lightning bolt in the core abilities is very cool!) - the Eladar's DoT? maybe that is too strong, though I don't think so since this is the 'bolstering the dog' tree we're talking about heavy investment in.


    Okay, that's it for my thoughts for now. In summary:

    - Please revise the T5 spent AP's threshold to 30, not 40, as the requirement currently makes T5 an ad hoc secondary capstone.

    - Please give Arcanotechnician a raw spell power (element specific if necessary) increase, and more varied abilities, particularly T5.

    - I appreciate that all sounds super negative. I'm not trying to hate and think there are many cool ideas: adding spells to memorizable abilities based on PRE is awesome, as are SLAs generally. This "only one set of Tier 5 abilities" really does concern me though.
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  18. #58
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Hand a Half Training is really interesting. I suspect we'll see the current Juggernaut 16 Artificer/2 Monk/2 Ranger build move from THF to TWF, dual wielding Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes. The Exotic Weapon Prof isn't even needed since you don't get glancing blows when dual wielding, and the -4 to hit is offset by the +4 hit from Hand and Half Training. You also have the option of dipping into Tempest for +2 hit/dmg, 10 PRR, Sprint Boost and 3[W] melee bleed.
    Not having proficiency was changed a while back to a -25% miss chance penalty, due to alot of higher to-hit melee not even bothering with the feats but still getting all the benefits of the exotic weapons.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Proficient
    Last edited by Chai; 04-16-2013 at 12:54 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #59
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    And, FWIW, I've got an arti on live w/ a Bastard Sword ... full THF feats, cleaves, etc. The damage is simply not in the same league as a big two-hander. Your INT is lower, due to wanting Overwhelming Crit, etc. and reducing it's related damage ... plus rune-arms are notoriously difficult to really aim well in melee. It doesn't rank up to Juggernaut level.

    Now if INT added straight up on glancing blows or something crazy like that, you might see a shift.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrst.grok View Post
    Have you tried meleeing with a runearm? It hit's nothing, so you end up with the only extra damage from your runearm being the damage bonus to the equiped weapon, but lose the extra str bonus to damage from a 2hander.. You're better off with a greataxe than any runearm/bsword combo in the game. So in my oppinion.. Yes I would get pidgeonholed.
    A popular arty build these days use 2handers and longbows, to be more melee focused for much the same reasons.

    As for gimping by taking capstones.. Theres just not enough ap to go around in this system with racial pre, class pre and multiple capstones.
    Aren't some of the lightning ones, like Arching Sky, made for close combat?

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