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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    maybe the 3rd tree will have them, currently there is only 2 trees. and the only ability in there that has anything to do with construct essense is attach weapon (t5 ability that gives .5w to a weapon until it is unequipped/you rest)
    I thought the goal was 2 PrE per class and 1 PrE per Race.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanw4 View Post
    I thought the goal was 2 PrE per class and 1 PrE per Race.
    thats the minimum goal, they did say that the current pre's will still be there, so some classes will have 3 pre's, and the long term goal would be for them all to have 3. never know when that will be though.

  3. #23

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    I did a cursory pass over the Battle Engineer and I don't see Endless Fuselage anywhere. Did they loos this in the new system?

  4. #24
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    I did a cursory pass over the Battle Engineer and I don't see Endless Fuselage anywhere. Did they loos this in the new system?
    It's there near the top, you can get that or a haste boost

  5. #25
    Community Member lucreciacrescent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    I did a cursory pass over the Battle Engineer and I don't see Endless Fuselage anywhere. Did they loos this in the new system?
    One more thing, does the added damage boost the battle engineer PrE still show up? How about the extra +10 hp?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucreciacrescent View Post
    One more thing, does the added damage boost the battle engineer PrE still show up? How about the extra +10 hp?
    prestige (core abilities under lam system) are as follow

    lvl6 prestige gave: 10 hit points, reduce arcane spell failure from armor by 10%, and have a +2 to both confirm critical hits and critical damage (before multipliers). Any weapon you wield in your main hand gains a +2 enhancement bonus (which stacks with the Enchant Weapon spell), endless fusulage.

    lvl 6 from battle engineer core abilities on lam: +1 enchantment to weapons, +1 enchantment to armor, +5 ppr, -10% arcane spell failure, +1 to crit atk/dmg, +8 universal spell power per runearm charge level to a max of 3 (so +24 universal spellpower when it is charged),

    endless fuselage can be gotten once you get 24 AP (you need to buy 4 abilities for 2 AP each that give +4 to attack, +2 to repeater dmg, +6 to nonrepeater dmg, one on each tier, and for t4 abilities you need to spend 20 in the tree. so you can get it by lvl7 if you spend all your points in the battle engineer tree.

  7. #27
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    I don't like the fact that arties get pidgeonholed into using specific weapons. Imo they should be equally good at infusing any weapon of choice.

    I have 2 arties, one full class with x-bow+runearm and one with a 2hander, I can honestly say I personally dislike the plink plink plink + runearm, but love the class. Being forced to be either gimped or play a character in a specific manner does not sit well with me.

    Besides I aggree with others on the wand/scroll thing and lack construct essense.

    One thing that concerns me it the AP total requirements.. If you go melee and have racial enhancements it will be very hard to get ap enough for repair sp from the other tree.

    Also I dislike the fact that the tier 5 weapon attachment is the same as the wf racial enhancement making one of them useless as they don't stack.

  8. #28
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    Nvm
    Last edited by Fecerak; 04-12-2013 at 07:54 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrst.grok View Post
    I don't like the fact that arties get pidgeonholed into using specific weapons. Imo they should be equally good at infusing any weapon of choice.

    I have 2 arties, one full class with x-bow+runearm and one with a 2hander, I can honestly say I personally dislike the plink plink plink + runearm, but love the class. Being forced to be either gimped or play a character in a specific manner does not sit well with me.

    Besides I aggree with others on the wand/scroll thing and lack construct essense.

    One thing that concerns me it the AP total requirements.. If you go melee and have racial enhancements it will be very hard to get ap enough for repair sp from the other tree.

    Also I dislike the fact that the tier 5 weapon attachment is the same as the wf racial enhancement making one of them useless as they don't stack.
    ~70% of an arties damage (if not more) comes from their runearm, I dont see a point in using a 2hander unless its for flavor, which then your not being pigionholed since your not really giving up much more then what you already are on live.

    as for the t5, you really wouldnt be able to get them both anyway unless you gimp your character (since you only get 80 AP, and you need 40 spent in the tree to even unlock it (and they cost 2AP), it just gives WF of other classes the same chance to get it.

  10. #30
    Community Member orakio's Avatar
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    Overall I think they did an ok job with the Battle Engineer Tree and a mediocre job with the Arcanotech tree. A bit of Feedback for each here. This is all off the top of my head from playtest last night, may misremember things here.

    Battle Engineer
    AP costs in this tree actually feel much better than those I tested for other classes. Full Engineer builds had me spending somewhere in the range of 44-50 points in this tree, about what i was hoping was the standard for each of the PrE trees in a "standard investment".

    Really like what they did with the x-bow versus DA/BSword lines, and the inclusion of haste boost is just awesome for the melee arti's. Like that the rune-arm abilities are in this tree, and like the core abilities as well. Probably wouldn't hurt to combine some of the runearm lines and maybe reduce the AP cost to make space for a couple other pieces, but all in all the tree felt pretty complete.

    Arcanotech
    This tree I had a few more problems with. Really couldn't see myself investing too heavily in this tree because it just seems like anything you didn't put in battle engineer was crammed in here. I get that it was supposed to be the "caster + pet" tree, but pet's ai is so bad that it makes the point investments for it in this tree simply not so worth it. Additionally the linked wand heightening and wand/scroll mastery is painful, please unlink these as heightening is just really bad.

    The good things in this tree.... SLA's are nice, the 1 universal spellpower per point spent (even though there aren't great options) and some of the core abilities were all kind of cool. For the SLA's I would consider boosting the max caster level on lightning motes/blast rod a little bit, but not a huge deal.

    What this tree is missing though is something that mitigates the positive energy penalty on construct essence. When I think of the word arcanotech I think of a mechanical wizard, and the idea of construct essence being the mechanizing of oneself would play well in this tree I think.

    Overall
    Arti really isn't in too bad of shape, feels a little more complete and balanced in AP costs than some of the other PrE Trees (Stalwart is just HORRIBLY expensive). The old arti capstone being under Arcanotech is tough for your typicaly arti build on live, but it is workable. Battle Engineer is solid, only little tweaks needed. Arcanotech feels pretty underwhelming at the moment, at best a secondary investment imo.

  11. #31
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    Yeah, I agree - After testing a bit, I found that artificer probably is the best balanced one in terms of costs of abilities (although arcanotech could use some more non-pet abilities).

    Ranger might be the one with the most nice enhancements, but they are currently too expensive.

    Fighter just has insane ap costs (in the case of stalwart) or just not enough good benefits with high ap costs (kensei)

    And cleric is just awful overall in my opinion (because of how they get no enhancements to boost their offensive abilities, basically).

    Overall:
    Arcanotech can get a few more nice non-pet abilities. Battle engineer is probably the best made tree out of all so far, so let that stay as it is. Ranger could use some slightly lower AP costs, and perhaps another melee focused ability on tier 5 deepwood. Fighter needs a overhaul, significantly reducing ap costs in stalwart, and adding more good stuff to kensei, while still reducing ap costs quite a bit.
    And I feel like cleric more or less needs another entire domain (war or death or smth like that). Note that while cleric is the one I consider the worst right now, it is also probably almost fixed if you add a offensive domain to them IMO.

    I would also suggest that you make every point spent in a tree count as 1/4th point for prerequisites in other trees for tier 1-4 abilities (as in, not core abilities and not tier 5 abilities). This makes it slightly better in terms of actually being able to grab some nice stuff in secondary trees (you can basically skip to tier 3, and unlock tier 4 with only a few things in tier 3).
    There should also be fewer enhancements that require other enhancements in general IMO - Things like wand heightening shouldn't be needed to unlock wand and scroll mastery, and confirm crit should just be merged with seeker bonuses in kensei.

  12. #32
    Community Member orakio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecerak View Post
    I would also suggest that you make every point spent in a tree count as 1/4th point for prerequisites in other trees for tier 1-4 abilities (as in, not core abilities and not tier 5 abilities). This makes it slightly better in terms of actually being able to grab some nice stuff in secondary trees (you can basically skip to tier 3, and unlock tier 4 with only a few things in tier 3).
    There should also be fewer enhancements that require other enhancements in general IMO - Things like wand heightening shouldn't be needed to unlock wand and scroll mastery, and confirm crit should just be merged with seeker bonuses in kensei.
    I also think that some points in a tree counting towards unlocks in other class trees for higher tiers would be REALLY nice and mirror the thought that there needs to be less enhancements overall that are directly tied to other enhancements.

    Part of the idea here was to be less restrictive on enhancements, not more so.

  13. #33
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    You got rid of the Improved UMD enhancements!

    BAD KOBOLDS! Back to the cave until you put them back!!!

  14. #34
    Community Member buddabopp's Avatar
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    the only thing i can think of that would be pretty cool in the Battle engineer would be a way to allow rune arms to give at least some shield ac bonus perhaps a toggle that reduces the lvl of rune arm blasts for ac+prr or gives ac+prr for holding charge tiers much like the spell power is.

    I see the battle engineer especially the Daxe or Bsword variants as more defensive dps/support characters where their survivability vs dps is somewhere between a full tank and a double frenzied barb, should they facetank purples, no but they should be at least durable which I applaud the prr additions to the passive to help with this but lets face it 10 prr isent all that much especially with how hard EE mobs hit

  15. #35
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    Having spent a couple of hours playing around with this and some testing I like both trees. However, unlike some others I really like the Arcanotechnician line.

    1) The three SLAs are simply superb. With the free metamagics and take tier 3 in each the cool downs were not that bad to deal with. The spell point cost was appropriate and damage was actually decent.

    For those that haven't seen Arcanotechnician includes three SLAs taken right off the Artificer spell list, lightning sphere, blast rod, and lightning motes. Each with three tiers which decreases spell point cost and cooldown.

    2) The pet enhamcements were nice as well. The free healing was a nice side benefit as well. Some say AI is bad but having played an Arti well into epic levels I've never really had a problem but then again I am a control freak and have no problem telling my dog what to attack and what not to attack.

    3) I agree that linking wand/scroll mastery to wand/scroll heighten was a bad idea. They should be unlinked or reversed if you must link them. Put mastery at tier 1 and heighten at tier 2.

    4) Since Artificier came out I have been waiting for an improvement to construct essense. I always assumed it would come with the new enhancements thus you can imagine my dissapointment when there is nothing there to improve it. The ability to improve construct essence should be in the arcanotechnician line at a low tier say two. three tiereed enhancement each tier increasing it by 15% so at a full three tiers you woud get 70% and a corresponing reduction in positive healing.

    5) It surprises me that there are no repair or spell power enhancements lines just crit and of course the universal spell power bumps. Mind you by 20 I was at 80 spell power just from spellcraft skill and the universal bumps and perhaps that is what was intended if so that should be clarified.

    6) Flame turret...this spell was just crying out for an enhancement line either in battle engineer or arcanotechnician... I would think battle engineer actually. The potential to increases its damage should be available.. Its a great spell that falls apart in higher levels since it is not affected by any type of spell power line.

    7) Our iron defender pet needs its enhancements coverted over to the same system...I wonder if that was an oversight. The tree system is so user friendly and keeps me on track. I never manage the defender capstones because I don't even know what they require. Please convert the defenders enhancments over to the tree system as well (druid wolf probably will need the same thing).

    I thinks that's it for now.

  16. #36
    Community Member fyrst.grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    ~70% of an arties damage (if not more) comes from their runearm, I dont see a point in using a 2hander unless its for flavor, which then your not being pigionholed since your not really giving up much more then what you already are on live.

    as for the t5, you really wouldnt be able to get them both anyway unless you gimp your character (since you only get 80 AP, and you need 40 spent in the tree to even unlock it (and they cost 2AP), it just gives WF of other classes the same chance to get it.
    Have you tried meleeing with a runearm? It hit's nothing, so you end up with the only extra damage from your runearm being the damage bonus to the equiped weapon, but lose the extra str bonus to damage from a 2hander.. You're better off with a greataxe than any runearm/bsword combo in the game. So in my oppinion.. Yes I would get pidgeonholed.
    A popular arty build these days use 2handers and longbows, to be more melee focused for much the same reasons.

    As for gimping by taking capstones.. Theres just not enough ap to go around in this system with racial pre, class pre and multiple capstones.

  17. #37
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    On the wand mastery bit since you've expressed that they'll be non-stacking for identical enhancements (and yeah, please do consolidate the dc and amp lines into one):

    The damage/healing amps are ok when functional. The DCs scale poorly. With that in mind, would it be at all possible to add, say:

    1/3: adds 1/2 of your character level to the DCs of wands and scrolls.
    2/3: adds 3/4 of your character level to the DCs of wands and scrolls.
    3/3: adds your character level to the DCs of wands and scrolls.

    Leaving the specific arty class feat and capstone bonus being the capacity to add duration, spell penetration, and their int score? It's always struck me as more than a little bit of a shame that a potential plat-sink (of the type folks would voluntarily blow plat on) has been rendered largely obsolete bar heal and rez scrolls.
    Last edited by Scraap; 04-12-2013 at 10:28 PM.

  18. #38
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    Hand a Half Training is really interesting. I suspect we'll see the current Juggernaut 16 Artificer/2 Monk/2 Ranger build move from THF to TWF, dual wielding Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes. The Exotic Weapon Prof isn't even needed since you don't get glancing blows when dual wielding, and the -4 to hit is offset by the +4 hit from Hand and Half Training. You also have the option of dipping into Tempest for +2 hit/dmg, 10 PRR, Sprint Boost and 3[W] melee bleed.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

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  19. #39
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    i'm not liking the fact that
    1) the scroll/wand mastery become exclusive to one tree
    2) you have to waste ap on the wand DC enhancement to reach there
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Hand a Half Training is really interesting. I suspect we'll see the current Juggernaut 16 Artificer/2 Monk/2 Ranger build move from THF to TWF, dual wielding Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes. The Exotic Weapon Prof isn't even needed since you don't get glancing blows when dual wielding, and the -4 to hit is offset by the +4 hit from Hand and Half Training. You also have the option of dipping into Tempest for +2 hit/dmg, 10 PRR, Sprint Boost and 3[W] melee bleed.
    Weapon Prof is changed from -4 to hit to 20% miss chance afaik.

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