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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    despite the admittedly cool and appropriate drow-flavour,
    Not really.
    Eberron drow train to fight *with*, not *against* scorps; ditto Faerun drow n' spiders.

    Spell Resistance
    Meh.

    Multiple Enhancement Selector: Drow Dex/Int/Cha
    Good.

    Faerie Fire
    Darkfire
    These simply don't do enough as a limited use clickie.
    Maybe give them a proc chance? i.e. spend a charge and for the next minute attacks have a chance of proc'ing these effects?
    Alternately, just take out the charges and put them on a timer.

    Vermin Lore
    Venom Lore
    Not thematic. See top.

    Keen Senses
    Thematic.

    Xen'drik Weapon Training
    Good.

    Arcane Fluidity
    Put shields back into the mix.

    Enchantment Lore
    Good.

    Nothing Is Hidden
    Very interesting.

    Ambidexterity
    Would have loved it pre U14, but with the combat changes, not so much.
    Thematic, though.

    Improved Dodge
    Interesting.

    Venomed Blades
    Interesting.

    ************************************************** ********

    Consider reducing the "spent in tree" costs for racials in general, say, 2 or 3 or 4 per tier instead of 5 ... just add to individual item cost or add arrows if there are specific abilities you're trying to control access to.
    Last edited by SableShadow; 04-12-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Drow seems like a trap for rogues now.

    The passive search ability will save a miniscule amount of total time in a dungeon while being a big investment in AP (16 min to have it sunk in the drow tree). With rogue assassin previewed a while back having the same top tier ability (poison damage on attacks) there really is not a good reason for people to want to be that heavy in the drow tree.
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  3. #23
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Drow seems like a trap for rogues now.

    The passive search ability will save a miniscule amount of total time in a dungeon while being a big investment in AP (16 min to have it sunk in the drow tree). With rogue assassin previewed a while back having the same top tier ability (poison damage on attacks) there really is not a good reason for people to want to be that heavy in the drow tree.
    Racial abilities shouldn't also be in classes that are so similar, certainly not if there are tree-based spend requirements. I'd hate to be the guy trying to plan out his rogue but having to buy something TWICE so he can get the abilities he wants in both trees.
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  4. #24

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    Some tweaks (my own, not what's on Llama presently, for people not reading the entire thread):

    ************************************************** ***************************

    Venom Lore (1/3) - 3 tier ability (replaces Vermin Lore)
    +1 Saves against Poison. +2 Poison resistance against hit point damaging poisons.

    Venomed Blades (1/3) - 3 tier ability
    Requires: 5 points spent in tree
    Poison Stance: On Hit: +1 Poison damage with weapon attacks (This enhancement cannot be taken at the same time as Venomed Blades in the Assassin tree.)

    Deadly Venomed Blades (1/3) - 3 tier ability
    Requires: Venom Lore (Rank 1), 20 points spent in tree.
    Cooldown: 3 seconds.
    Improved Poison Stance: On Hit: An additional 1d4 Poison damage with weapon attacks (Both melee and ranged; this enhancement cannot be taken at the same time as Venomed Blades in the Assassin tree.)
    (Total damage for the tree is 1d8+3 poison damage)



    (All Fire effects now have longer cooldowns, but no longer have a per rest limit)
    Faerie Fire: AP Cost: 2, Ranks: 1
    Purple Faerie Fire.
    Metamagics: None
    Save: None
    SR: Yes
    Cooldown: 60 Seconds
    Spell Like Ability: Faerie Fire. (Arcs a flare of faerie fire through the air, bursting outward to affect all enemies near it. Targets are dazzled and take a -1 penalty to attack, spot, and search. Targets are illuminated by faerie fire, dispelling stealth, invisibility, blur, and displacement for 30 seconds, and giving a -40 penalty to hide. Sightless enemies are immune to the dazzle effect.

    (NEW)
    Dazzling Faerie Fire: AP Cost: 2, Ranks: 1
    Purple Faerie Fire.
    Requires: Faerie Fire, 5 points spent in tree.
    Metamagics: None
    Save: Yes, Reflex, DC 20 + 1/2 Char Level + Cha Mod
    SR: Yes
    Cooldown: 60 Seconds
    Spell Like Ability: As Faerie Fire.
    All attacks have 20% concealment miss chance.
    Failed save blinds the target for the duration of the spell.

    Dark Fire 1/1. AP Cost: 2,
    Requires: 10 points spent in tree, Dazzling Faerie Fire.
    Darkfire - Metamagics: Quicken.
    SR: No
    Cooldown: 30 Seconds(?)
    SLA: Fires a bolt of darkness that deals 1d12 damage per character level, Reflex DC (10 + 1/2 Char Level + Cha Mod) for half damage.
    At level 11 and 21 an additional bolt is fired.



    Arcane Fluidity (1/3) - 3 tier ability
    Your arcane spell failure chance while wearing armor is decreased by 5% (this has no effect on arcane spell failure from shields.).
    (Total ASF 15%; Tier II includes 5% ASF reduction on shields, Tier III inlcudes 10% ASF reduction on shields)



    Ambidexterity (1) - 1 tier ability
    Requires: Two Weapon Fighting (the feat), Xen'Drik Weapon Training (4 levels), 20 points spent in tree. AP Cost: 2
    You gain +3% doublestrike when dual wielding or fighting unarmed.

    Xen'drik Weapon Training 1/1
    Requires: Xen'drik Weapon Training, 10 points spent in tree. AP Cost: 2
    +1 hit/dam with Daggers/Rapiers/Shortswords/Shuriken.
    (all the light, 1-handed blade, piercing weapons ... potential rogue synergy)

    Grace (as Elf)
    Last edited by SableShadow; 04-12-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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  5. #25
    Community Member Jitty's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see a reason for a drow wizard or sorc to put more than one point in this tree. Where to put the point would be entirely arbitrary as I would only do it to unlock the access to the stat point. Faerie Fire? If I want gitterdust on a wiz/sorc I can get it without spending ap for it. If arcane fluidity counted towards shields it would be situationally useful.
    This isn't actually much different than the situation with racial enhancements on the live servers so maybe its not a big deal, I'll have to wait to preview the arcane enhancements to tell.
    Last edited by Jitty; 04-13-2013 at 01:48 AM.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Entelech's Avatar
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    (1) The 2/2/2 progression for Everything is Hidden is grotesquely overpriced. It should be 2 / 1 / 1, since all later ranks do is reduce the penalty, rather than giving a new ability. And Trapmonkeys are a marginal role in non-Elite content.

    (2) Seriously? Vermin Lore? This is Eberron. Give us Giant Lore instead. Somebody might actually take it then. Or give us a choice between the two if you want to tip your hat to Forgotten Realms emo spider-kissers.

    (3) The Tempest line is not hooked up yet, so it makes melee builds hard to evaluate... All of them would take it. Given the nerfing of Hitpoint enhancement lines, a melee race with limited stat build points and an innate Con penalty is simply not viable without access to the racial PrE. In fact, even with the racial and class Toughness enhancements as they stand on the live servers, Drow melee are squishy pariahs.

    (4) I really like the multiple enhancement selector for the racial stat bumps (Choice of Int, Cha, or Dex)

    (5) For all the racial PrE's, I think the stat bumps should be purchased, rather than autogrants. Forcing folks to dump 20+ points buying garbage enhancements just to qualify for the stat bump seems to be a move in the wrong direction, and I have faith in your ability to come up with more interesting and creative autogranted abilities than that.
    Last edited by Entelech; 04-13-2013 at 01:34 AM.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Quick summary of my opinion:

    Multiple Stat Selector: Awesome!

    Darkfire: Either increase the DC by A LOT or remove it (the DC^^) altogether (its a ray after all)

    For an arcane quite little choice on what to take to get to the higher tiers of the tree :/

    => Ideas:
    .) Put in an additional SLA at tier 2
    .) Move Ambidexterity from tier 2 to tier 4 and change it to:
    Ambidexterity (1/3) - 3 tier ability
    Requires: TWF/Improved TWF/Greater TWF (the feats), Xen'Drik Weapon Training tier4, 20 points spent in tree. AP Cost: 1/1/2
    You gain +1/+2/+3 to hit and +1%/+2%/+3% offhand doublestrike chance when dual wielding or fighting unarmed. At tier3 you may use your dex instead of str modifier for damage with weapons you can already use your dex bonus for attack rolls.
    .) Replace tier1 venom lore with something useful for casters
    .) Change Venomed Blades to something that doesn't interfere with any class tree
    .) Add tier 4 enhancement:
    Improved Racial Spellcasting (1/3) - 3 tier ability
    Requires: Darkfire, 20 points spent in tree, AP 1/1/2
    Your innate SLAs DC is increased by +4/+8/+12. At tier 3 Darkfire no longer has a saving throw.

    just some ideas^^
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  8. #28
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    Adding my voice to the multi select SLA save stat and give them all a regenerates one use every 60 seconds.

    +1 to hit per rank of ambidexterity is useless it should be changed to something like 3-6-10% change to hit with offhand attacks or a similar breakdown for double strike. I could get behind rank three adding Dex to damage.

    Venomed Blades would be nice to have work on bows crossbows and wraps as well currently I do not believe that they do, wraps confirmed.

    Unlink abilities and or lower the AP investment requirement to get the abilities or leave the AP Spent as a level control but have it look at the total points spent across all trees.

  9. #29
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    Hmm..

    Scorpion Wraith anyone?

    I was really hoping for abilities that will have a synergy with assassins (or at least just assassin weapons - rumor has it that dex assassins will use kukris instead of rapiers after the enhancements pass). My main character is a drow rogue assassin/DPS and I would like to keep her that way. I don't want to be forced to TR her into a halfling and I might have to, if halflings have much better synergy. Currently, even regular elves seem to be better DPS-wise (look at their "Skill" enhancement).

  10. #30

    Default Elf and Elf (Drow) should mirror

    Thesis: Elf and Elf (Drow) should have similar core enhancements; they should mirror each other where practical.
    Where Elf has enhancements for Dragon Marks, Fey Affinity, and Archane Archer, Elf (Drow) has enhancements for Spell Resistance, Hunting Magic, and Venoms.
    Looking at it that way, and starting with the Elf template ...




    Bottom Row:

    1 - Elven Accuracy
    2 - Multiple Enhancement Selector: Drow Dex/Int/Cha
    3 - Elven Accuracy
    4 - Multiple Enhancement Selector: Drow Dex/Int/Cha
    5 - Elven Accuracy


    Column 1, Spell Resistance:

    1 - Spell Resistance: Your spell resistance increases by +2.
    2 - Spell Resistance: Your spell resistance increases by +2.
    3 - Spell Resistance: Your spell resistance increases by +2.
    4 - Spell Resistance: Your spell resistance increases by +2.


    Column 2, Hunting Magic:
    (All Fire effects now have longer cooldowns, but no longer have a per rest limit)

    1 - Faerie Fire: AP Cost: 2, Ranks: 1
    Purple Faerie Fire.
    Metamagics: None
    Save: None
    SR: Yes
    Cooldown: 60 Seconds
    Spell Like Ability: Faerie Fire. (Arcs a flare of faerie fire through the air, bursting outward to affect all enemies near it. Targets are dazzled and take a -1 penalty to attack, spot, and search. Targets are illuminated by faerie fire, dispelling stealth, invisibility, blur, and displacement for 30 seconds, and giving a -40 penalty to hide. Sightless enemies are immune to the dazzle effect.

    2 - Enchantement Lore (3/3)

    3 - Dark Fire 1/1. AP Cost: 2,
    Requires: 10 points spent in tree.
    Darkfire - Metamagics: Quicken.
    SR: No
    Cooldown: 30 Seconds(?)
    SLA: Fires a bolt of darkness that deals 1d12 damage per character level, Reflex DC (10 + 1/2 Char Level + Cha Mod) for half damage.
    At level 11 and 21 an additional bolt is fired.


    Column 3.

    1 - Keen Senses

    2 - Nothing is Hidden

    3 - Improved Racial Spellcasting (1/3) - 3 tier ability
    Requires: Darkfire, 10 points spent in tree, AP 1/1/2
    Your innate SLAs DC is increased by +4/+8/+12. At tier 3 Darkfire no longer has a saving throw. (borrowed, with modification, from Urjak above)

    4- Grace


    Column 4, Xen'Drik Weapon Training (rapier, ss, shuriken).


    Column 5, Same, Replace Archer (5,3) with Venomed Blades:

    1 - Arcane Fluidity

    2 - Arcanum

    3 - Venomed Blades (1/3) - 3 tier ability
    Requires: Venom Lore (Rank 1), 10 points spent in tree.
    Cooldown: 3 seconds.
    Improved Poison Stance: On Hit: An additional 1d4 Poison damage with weapon attacks (Both melee and ranged; this enhancement cannot be taken at the same time as Venomed Blades in the Assassin tree.)
    (Total damage for the tree is 1d8 poison damage)

    4 - Skill


    Elf enhancements (referenced here).

    Just a couple of thoughts; at present, the Drow racials just don't *pop* for me (in both flavor and utility) compared to the Elf ones. Just putting ideas out there.
    Last edited by SableShadow; 04-15-2013 at 03:44 AM.
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  11. #31
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    Drow doesn't feel finished compared to the other races.

  12. #32
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    My impressions...

    Drow Divines, screwed.
    Drow Arcanes, screwed. At least this choice won't be overcharged to spent their AP, they'll be able to save most to all for their class choices.
    Drow Paladins -- the *only* class where Drow are a viable toe-to-toe choice after 32 point characters are unlocked, meh. Okay, but mostly for getting access to tempest, which after you pay to unlock, you won't gave enough ap to enjoy.
    Drow Trappers, may be viable, but looks like it would really only be as assassins. People really good with statting up trappers could better comment.

    I do agree with the person who said Drow and Elf should work off the same basic template, with only shifting around a few specific racial abilities.

    All SLAs should have a timer, not be clickies. In PnP they have a daily count, but so do spells. Once you go to a point based casting system, you should have a cooldown for all SLAs.

    Edit: Hit submit before I finished.
    Drow non-paladin melees, better served by the Elf race with their tasty useful high-crit-range weapon options.
    Drow specialists, screwed. Maybe they'll like the clickies. Dunno.

    Drow as a race are almost universally despised for the Con penalty and the pre-assigned stat points. Personally, I like them but I much prefer half elves. Drow paladins are an awesome choice, but this racial tree gives them NOTHING except access to Tempest. Which, I already commented on above.

    Drow just feel...wrong. Slapped together. It's well known they're a problem race. This would have been a great opportunity to help them catch up to the other races. Instead, they've been left to continue to languish.
    Last edited by eachna_gislin; 04-17-2013 at 01:47 AM.

  13. #33
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    Drow are supposed to get Tempest as racial PRC while elves get AA. Out of these 2 I would say tempest helps more builds out then AA as it helps monks, rogues or any twf character really while AA only helps archers.

    Personally thinking along the lines of drow, monk, tempest(racial) should offer some quite decent synergy.

  14. #34
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachna_gislin View Post
    Drow Arcanes, screwed. At least this choice won't be overcharged to spent their AP, they'll be able to save most to all for their class choices.
    I keep seeing this, but I don't get it.

    With the changes to the racial stat enhancements, drow arcanes are 2DC ahead of every race but human and helf, and 1DC ahead of those. Alternately, they can equal a human or helf on DC, be 1 ahead of every other race, and get 6 extra build points to spread around (effectively becoming a 38-point race in arcane classes). A drow sorc, in particular, gets 2 extra charisma-based SLAs (and shadowbolt is awesome - 500dmg per bolt on my Evoker) and 2 to 4 higher charisma.
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  15. #35
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entelech View Post
    For all the racial PrE's, I think the stat bumps should be purchased, rather than autogrants.
    This is the intent. Racial Core Enhancements are not intended to be limited by points spent in the tree. There were some bugs where some of them erroneously had this gating.

  16. #36
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    I keep seeing this, but I don't get it.

    With the changes to the racial stat enhancements, drow arcanes are 2DC ahead of every race but human and helf, and 1DC ahead of those. Alternately, they can equal a human or helf on DC, be 1 ahead of every other race, and get 6 extra build points to spread around (effectively becoming a 38-point race in arcane classes). A drow sorc, in particular, gets 2 extra charisma-based SLAs (and shadowbolt is awesome - 500dmg per bolt on my Evoker) and 2 to 4 higher charisma.
    I don't know what Shadowbolt is, but I'm going to assume it comes from the sorc trees. Drow get Faerie Fire and Darkfire as SLAs.

    Faerie fire, while cool from a lore standpoint, is going to have too low a DC to be useful for the long haul, and Darkfire is an action boost that can't be meta'd with either empower or maximize. Also, both have reflex saves and "everything" these days seem to have evasion.

    The stat increases come from the core abilities. Every race gets core stat increases. That's a wash with every other race. The unexciting part for arcanes is the tiers. Unless you think vermine Lore, drow weapon training, and Ambidexterity are REALLY going to improve caster builds? The vaguely useful options are also in the Elf racial box.

    There's a few things you can pick through and put points in just to unlock the bottom core abilities, but there's not much. Drow casters will take their stat increases and save the majority of their AP for their class trees.

    There's certainly nothing that makes Drow arcanes sit up and go 'wow'.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by eachna_gislin View Post
    I don't know what Shadowbolt is, but I'm going to assume it comes from the sorc trees. Drow get Faerie Fire and Darkfire as SLAs.

    Faerie fire, while cool from a lore standpoint, is going to have too low a DC to be useful for the long haul, and Darkfire is an action boost that can't be meta'd with either empower or maximize. Also, both have reflex saves and "everything" these days seem to have evasion.

    The stat increases come from the core abilities. Every race gets core stat increases. That's a wash with every other race. The unexciting part for arcanes is the tiers. Unless you think vermine Lore, drow weapon training, and Ambidexterity are REALLY going to improve caster builds? The vaguely useful options are also in the Elf racial box.

    There's a few things you can pick through and put points in just to unlock the bottom core abilities, but there's not much. Drow casters will take their stat increases and save the majority of their AP for their class trees.

    There's certainly nothing that makes Drow arcanes sit up and go 'wow'.
    I agree that the SLAs are meh. However, the stat adjustments are useful. Drow can now start with a 20 Int / Cha, and get up to +2 more from racial enhancements. That gives them the highest wizard / sorc DCs. The next closest is human / helf, at +1 int / cha. Now, if there was another race that was focus on int or cha, then yeah, it'd be a wash. So, they are 1.5 DCs ahead of the next closest race.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Accessing Trees from your race is mostly not functional at this time. Only Arcane Archer for Elves and Half-Elves are currently hooked up.
    Any update on this? It looks pretty damn stupid when you guys post that “All the racial PrEs are available” and I *still* can't access Tempest on my drow fighter.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  19. #39
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    Default No drow dragonmark enhancements?

    What's the thinking behind drow not getting dragonmark enhancements?

    Looks like plenty of room in the tree to add the dragonmark enhancements from the Elf racial tree without losing the SLA's.

  20. #40
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    What's the thinking behind drow not getting dragonmark enhancements?

    Looks like plenty of room in the tree to add the dragonmark enhancements from the Elf racial tree without losing the SLA's.
    It's a lore thing. Drow do not get dragonmarks. There are no Drow dragonmarked houses.

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