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  1. #1
    Lamannia Coordinator SqueakofDoom's Avatar
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    Default The Official Halfling Enhancements Discussion Thread!

    We are currently previewing Racial Enhancements on Lamannia.

    Please use this thread to share your thoughts on the Halfling Enhancement Tree!
    Last edited by SqueakofDoom; 07-03-2013 at 06:23 AM.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Halfling:

    Core:
    Halfling Luck (autogrant): +1 to all Saving Throws
    Dexterity (2 AP): +1
    Luck (1 AP unlisted): +1 to all saving throws
    Dexterity (2 AP, 20pts spent): +1
    Luck (1 AP unlisted, 30pts spent): +1 to all Saving throws

    Tier 1:
    Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (?): +1/2/3 use, +1/2/3 heal
    Stealthy (1AP): +1/2/3 Hide and Move Silently
    Acrobatic (1AP): +1/2/3 Balance/Jump/Tumble and +2/4/6 AC while tumbling
    Halfling Cunning (2AP): +1/2/3 Bluff and to-hit during Sneak Attack
    Bold (1AP): Fear and shaken effects removed after 12/6/3 seconds

    Tier 2:
    Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (2AP, Req dragonmark focus rank 1): Grants lesser dragonmark, cure serious wounds.
    Break out the Leeches (2ap, req Lesser dragonmark): Lesser Dragonmark Spell: Positive Energy Leeches (removes 1 neg level, one poison, one disease every 3 seconds, duration equal to heal skill)
    Nimble Reactions (1AP, req Acrobatic): +1/2/3 Armor Max Dex bonus and Max Dodge bonus (aren't these always identical?)
    Halfling Guile (2ap, req Cunning rank 1): +1 sneak attack die
    Heroic Companion (2ap): Action boost: grants an ally +0.25/+0.5/+1[W] damage, +2/+4/+6 to hit and saving throws, +0%/+2%/+4% Dodge, and +0/+0/+10 PRR

    Tier 3:
    Greater Dragonmark of Healing (2ap, req Lesser dragonmark): Grants Greater Dragonmark, Heal
    Skillful Thrower (2ap): You can use your dexterity modifier for damage with returning thrown weapons
    Improved Dodge (2ap, req Nimble Reactions, dodge feat? pre-req not clear there): +1%/+2%/+3% dodge when wearing light or no armor
    Halfling Guile (2ap, req tier 2 halfling guile): +1 sneak attack die

    Tier 4:
    Master Thrower (1ap, skillful thrower): You gain +1 competence bonus to the Critical Threat range of returning thrown weapons.
    Halfling Agility (2ap, improved dodge): Up to once per second when you are hit, you gain 1% dodge until you are missed. This effect can stack up to 5 times.
    Halfling Guile (2ap, req tier 3 halfling guile): +1 sneak attack die

  3. #3
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Oh lord... HALFLING SHURIKEN SHIRADI BUILDS COMETH!!!!!

    Seriously, this list makes me want to roll a halfling...

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Thoughts:

    It's nice to see they addressed the Dragonmark issue; you use one feat to get a dragonmark and then AP to enhance it, including getting lesser and greater abilities.

    I've never used Heroic Companion but that seems like a nice upgrade, especially the top end.

    My main use, and a very popular style, is the dex-based rogue (which has typically been a poor idea but getting a lot more design help lately). Until I see the rogue trees next week, I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to put into the racial tree. I doubt I'd invest in the tier 4 of Halfling Guile - T4 racials require 20AP spent in tree - but getting top end Halfling Guile was already really expensive. Even getting the 3rd level, which is all you get here, was a squeeze. Same entry cost for that 2nd Dex point.

    Still - I could easily see wanting 3x Acrobatic, 1 Cunning, 3x Nimble reactions, T2/T3 Halfling Guile, Dex core skill, 3xImproved Dodge - that's 20 already, so getting T4 halfling guile is just 2 more AP; 3 towards core skills gets you +1 saves and +1 dex, so if you can spend 25 in your racial tree....it'll just depend on what else you want.

    Overall I like it, and feel like I get out of it what I already want from my race, and there are some fun options for new things.

    Haven't tried out Halfling Agility, but that seems problematic. What's "missed"? Dodged, or missed for any reason? If you're trying to survive on miss chance, you are hopefully getting missed over half the time; concealment, dodge, incorporeal, and some effect from AC. Is it really worth an investment to occasionally get a 1% dodge bonus? Especially if this effect doesn't break dodge cap; by the time you qualify for this you're probably pushing your dodge cap anyway.

    Nimble Reactions can take your dodge cap over 25% - that's useful.

  5. #5
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Yeah so far the Halfling line looks nice...

    I just have to check a few things on it ( especially on the Dragonmark side ), but it seems that they come somewhat clean. ( though didn't they have one or two toughness enhancements that disappeared along the way ? )
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  6. #6
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Good catch - halfling currently has 2 Racial Toughness enhancements, and those are gone. That will be sorely missed, as I was dumping everything I could into those Toughness enhancements.

    On the other hand, when I created a new Cleric today, I got a new feat at some point on my travel to lvl 7 - Improved Heroic Durability, which gave another...5 hp? So perhaps HPs are coming as autogranted feats instead of enhancements.

  7. #7
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Neat, but way too expensive overall. That is a problem in a lot of the racial trees I am seeing. Basically the sneak attack dice is just too dang pricy to get making the racial choice sub-optimal at this time for any build I can think of except a dragonmark user (which is sub-optimal in the extreme in the new system as far as I can see because the feat -> AP change is a lateral or negative move in many cases as AP are pretty valuable).
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  8. #8
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibor View Post
    On the other hand, when I created a new Cleric today, I got a new feat at some point on my travel to lvl 7 - Improved Heroic Durability, which gave another...5 hp? So perhaps HPs are coming as autogranted feats instead of enhancements.
    Yup, Vargouille commented in the Elven Thread about the same thing I pointed there.

    Basically you have +5 HP at LVL 5, 10 15 in a Class, along with a +5 HP to Heroic Durability at start in replacement of the two Racial Toughness Enhancements... That's at least how I parsed what was written.
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Neat, but way too expensive overall. That is a problem in a lot of the racial trees I am seeing. Basically the sneak attack dice is just too dang pricy to get making the racial choice sub-optimal at this time for any build I can think of except a dragonmark user (which is sub-optimal in the extreme in the new system as far as I can see because the feat -> AP change is a lateral or negative move in many cases as AP are pretty valuable).
    I dunno, I'm spending 25 AP on "halfling" enhancements on my rogue on live right now - 4 is for skills that are pre-reqs for PrE, 3 toughness, 6 Dex, and 12 on Cunning/Guile. That's a big investment into Cunning/Guile, but even if I cut that to 6 (those 6 points are clearly worth the ROI) I'd still be at 19 AP in my racial abilities. I'm pretty happy to make that be about 18-24 in the new system; better damage from the Cunning/Guile, less HP (no toughness!), max dex bonus and dodge bonus improvements...it's a reasonable trade.

  10. #10
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Commenting bad ones mainly. And enhs overall.

    Bottom row:
    Seems pretty good. I like it. But id let choose between dex or any else stat. To not make it finesse characters only.

    Tier 1:
    For me - lame. Everything is not really usefull. Well maybe besides + to dragonmarks use.

    Tier 2:
    Pretty good dragonmark. And overall good looking tier. BUT... But below all tiers...

    Tier 3:
    Good tier. BUT... below

    Tier 4:
    Seems fine to but..

    BUT - when I look on halfling tree it has way to many (compared to others) needs to take low lvls **** to get sth you want. Delete half of these arrows and were good. :P
    Cause right now it doesnt look that appealing.
    Id love to take dodge % but Im not gonna waste points into Tier 1 and Tier 2 prereqs.
    The same with sneak attack dice.
    I may have memory problems but I remember some dev post about :how new enhancements are not going to force us to take trash things to get the ones we wanted". Well... This enh proves different. Sadly .
    Because it looks really good until u see all those arrows.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    To get a visual impression of the Halfling tree:

    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  12. #12
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    I was so looking forward to having halfling open up the assassin tree. Either I'm absolutely blind and missed it, or it's not there.


  13. #13
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    I was so looking forward to having halfling open up the assassin tree. Either I'm absolutely blind and missed it, or it's not there.

    Maybe it allows you to use the rogue assassin tree without having rogue levels. Just guessing.

  14. #14

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    I was so looking forward to having halfling open up the assassin tree. Either I'm absolutely blind and missed it, or it's not there.
    Only Elves and Helves have access to the racial PrE tree right now. The other races are Soon(tm).
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    I'm on my halfling cleric here with the 3 dragon mark feats, and I don't see the point of the Lesser and Greater Dragonmarks of Healing enhancements. They are exactly the same as the Lesser and Greater Dragonmarks of Healing feats. They even take the same usages that the feat do.

    Are the feats being replaced or something? Because right now the enhancements are pointless on a character that already has all 3 feats?

  16. #16

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    Because right now the enhancements are pointless on a character that already has all 3 feats?
    Except for the people who want to use 2 of those feats on something else, and get their Dragonmarks through enhancements instead.

    Halfling Cleric gets 9 feats through level 24.

    3 Dragonmarks
    Toughness
    Empower Healing
    Maximize
    Quicken

    That's 7 for bare bones functionality. Say Empower and Mental Toughness for the other 2.

    Well, now you have the option of 2 more, at the cost of some AP.
    Last edited by Matuse; 04-11-2013 at 08:01 PM.
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  17. #17
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Dragonmarks, shmagonmarks. Can I throw halflings yet?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  18. #18
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Master thrower:
    Is there some reason the weapon has to be returning? Why wouldn't it work on the consumable throwers?
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  19. #19
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibor View Post
    Halfling:

    Core:
    Halfling Luck (autogrant): +1 to all Saving Throws
    Dexterity (2 AP): +1
    Luck (1 AP unlisted): +1 to all saving throws
    Dexterity (2 AP, 20pts spent): +1
    Luck (1 AP unlisted, 30pts spent): +1 to all Saving throws
    These are solid... Much better and cheaper than current halfling Dex and luck bonuses.

    Tier 1:
    • Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (?): +1/2/3 use, +1/2/3 heal

    Tier 2:
    • Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (2AP, Req dragonmark focus rank 1): Grants lesser dragonmark, cure serious wounds.
    • Break out the Leeches (2ap, req Lesser dragonmark): Lesser Dragonmark Spell: Positive Energy Leeches (removes 1 neg level, one poison, one disease every 3 seconds, duration equal to heal skill)

    Tier 3:
    • Greater Dragonmark of Healing (2ap, req Lesser dragonmark): Grants Greater Dragonmark, Heal
    Not much new here, except the Break out the Leeches... that's nice... Wait, do we actually LOSE a heal? Because it looks like max heals are now 4 instead of 5... 4 heals used to cost 6 AP, and 5 heals cost 10 AP... Now we get 4 heals for 7 AP... Still, saves two feats, so net gain I guess.

    Tier 1:
    • Acrobatic (1AP): +1/2/3 Balance/Jump/Tumble and +2/4/6 AC while tumbling

    Tier 2:
    • Nimble Reactions (1AP, req Acrobatic): +1/2/3 Armor Max Dex bonus and Max Dodge bonus (aren't these always identical?)

    Tier 3:
    • Improved Dodge (2ap, req Nimble Reactions, dodge feat? pre-req not clear there): +1%/+2%/+3% dodge when wearing light or no armor

    Tier 4:
    • Halfling Agility (2ap, improved dodge): Up to once per second when you are hit, you gain 1% dodge until you are missed. This effect can stack up to 5 times.
    AC only when tumbling, meh. Armor Max Dex bonus could be useful, especially with all the new dodge bonuses out there...

    Improved Dodge very nice... pretty expensive to max out... 12 APs... ouch.

    Halfling Agility seems pretty worthless... It wears off once you're missed ONCE? Neat idea, not worth much in-game it seems to me. Please re-work this one.

    Tier I
    • Halfling Cunning (2AP): +1/2/3 Bluff and to-hit during Sneak Attack

    Tier 2:
    • Halfling Guile (2ap, req Cunning rank 1): +1 sneak attack die

    Tier 3:
    • Halfling Guile (2ap, req tier 2 halfling guile): +1 sneak attack die

    Tier 4:
    • Halfling Guile (2ap, req tier 3 halfling guile): +1 sneak attack die
    8 AP for 3d6 sneak attack is very solid... Used to cost 6 AP for 4 points of sneak attack damage, so that's a very nice buff.

    Heroic Companion (2ap): Action boost: grants an ally +0.25/+0.5/+1[W] damage, +2/+4/+6 to hit and saving throws, +0%/+2%/+4% Dodge, and +0/+0/+10 PRR
    This is very cool, but rather expensive... Very hard to justify spending a large number of APs on an ability that doesn't help your character at all... We'll have to see how tight APs are (I'm expecting them to be VERY tight in the new enhancement system)

    Over all, not bad... I see it as a buff... Sure wish you could spend some points and get those dragonmark heals to regenerate over time. They are pretty useful as is in heroic content, but in epic 4 heals isn't worth much... Not with silver flame pots, heal scrolls, and all the ED healing that is available now.
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  20. #20
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Over all, not bad... I see it as a buff
    That would put this racial tree in the minority as the others are not so fortunate. Subset. Small. Wee.

    And I still can't throw halflings.




    PS: We have all these silly grenade like things - is ANY tree going to favor them?
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