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  1. #1
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Default Why do monsters not roll d20 for save throws?

    Alright, after extensive gameplay experience through DDO, I can conclude that monsters of all sorts DO NOT use a d20 die like us to make saving throws. If anything, its more of a 1d6, maybe 1d8 throw. My question is, why not d20 like us? I can't think of any good explanation whatsoever to not use a d20 die for monster saves...
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  2. #2
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    Assuming this isn't a troll (and if it is good one, I sense some potential) what makes you draw this conclusion?
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  3. #3
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Assuming this isn't a troll (and if it is good one, I sense some potential) what makes you draw this conclusion?
    Mostly with Spell DC's and the DC's of various tactical feats. It seems to me that there is no way a monster rolls a d20 like us. It has to be a shorter or special type of die due to the way monsters save a lot more with even a 1 dc difference.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  4. #4
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    (and if it is good one, I sense some potential)
    Looking at his last couple threads... I'm thinking Ape Man may have mutated into Troll Man

  5. #5
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Alright, after extensive gameplay experience through DDO, I can conclude that monsters of all sorts DO NOT use a d20 die like us to make saving throws. If anything, its more of a 1d6, maybe 1d8 throw. My question is, why not d20 like us? I can't think of any good explanation whatsoever to not use a d20 die for monster saves...
    Are you suggesting that my 16 int dumped wizard can go into EE and finger 1 out of every 6 mobs?

    Are you saying that my 12 wisdom monk can stun approximately 1 out of every 3 epic elite mobs with stunning fist?

    Provide some maths or go back under the bridge.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Looking at his last couple threads... I'm thinking Ape Man may have mutated into Troll Man
    My goal is to have the term "aping" replace "trolling."
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Mostly with Spell DC's and the DC's of various tactical feats. It seems to me that there is no way a monster rolls a d20 like us. It has to be a shorter or special type of die due to the way monsters save a lot more with even a 1 dc difference.
    You're gonna need some real evidence to back this claim. This is like the time I claimed to invent the question mark.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  8. #8
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    In all the times I've casted spells with a save, used tactical feats among other things, I swear that monsters roll either a 1d6 or 1d8 instead of the usual 1d20 like everybody else. It is just my instinct. I wish there was a way to test this claim and prove it, but alas, I cannot find such a way.

    Rolling a 1 and auto-failing a save tends to be different with monsters. I'm guessing it may be a separate percentage. As for monsters making the occasional auto-save, haven't seen it. Sure, it may be rare for a monster to roll a 20 on a save, but as far as I can tell, I haven't honestly seen it.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  9. #9
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    Hi,

    What I'm not clear on is how you think you're seeing this at all. It doesn't seem to be explained by your posts beyond it being an impression, which is unreliable for a variety of reasons.

    Some of the other posters have suggested you try going into very hard content and trying to reproduce a situation where mobs making saves could only be expected to fail their saves on a 1. That is one way to do it, but you may not survive long enough to get any useful data.

    The reverse is also true too. If you have a high level character, try going into a very low level quest or wilderness area, using a save-based ability on the monsters, and seeing if they avoid it more than 1 in 20 times. Get your near max DC pale master, go out into Korthos, and starting FoDing the monsters there. I think you will see a 95% success rate or close enough.

    To me, it sounds like you may be drawing this conclusion based on your observations of less extreme cases. Like using an ability whose DC is not so high that it's only working 5/6 or 7/8 times. If the ability in question is not at either extreme of the scale of effectivness, it's very hard to judge.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  10. #10
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    What you're saying doesnt' even make any sense.

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