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  1. #1
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    Default Why do no EDs offer decent healing?

    The EDs all seem to dramatically improve DPS. Legendary Dreadnought's Master's Blitz is simply devastating and the Fury of the Wild's Unbridled Fury is good on its own, and obscene when combined with manyshot. The Shadow Dancer ED grants considerable survivability, and decent DPS. Grand Master of Flowers offers solid bonuses all around, but only to monks, and again no healing.

    The only EDs offering any healing that is even slightly useful in combat are the Unyielding Sentinel, and the Shiradi Champion... And in these cases, it is very limited, and really very weak. Lay on Hands is worthless to a non-charisma based toon without paladin levels, and the Healing Spring is too random, too slow, and too limited. I was surprised there was no ability in the Exalted Angel ED offering massive healing, since it's supposed to be the cleric/favored soul ED.

    I did find the Fury Made Placid ability in Fury of the Wild... And looked at it seriously for all of ten seconds, until I realized how it neutered that ED. First off, it lasts too short of a time period. Healing 2d100 x5 means a maximum of 1000 hp will be healed. This is solid, but not even close to enough, since more likely it will be around 500 hp. A decently geared barb who is being healed by a heal spell will probably get about 400 from said spell... Secondly, Fury Made Placid costs its users access to the most powerful ability of Fury of the Wild; the Adrenaline ability, and the most powerful ability of the barbarian, Rage.

    I don't think I understand this at all. Paladins, rangers, flavor builds, etc all gained considerable dps from the addition of EDs, while maintaining their impressive self sufficiency and respectable damage mitigation. The barbarian and fighter and some monks, rogues and some other builds also gained dps... but what they needed was better healing. Why is it that of all the epic destinies, none of them offer any means of in combat quick healing that is actually useful?

    Are barbarians and fighters and other builds without blue bars not important from a development stand point? The weaknesses of many classes were adjusted, and the brute classes were left to continue to cling to a cleric. The differences now between a barbarian's dps and a paladin's dps is still considerable, but it is no longer nearly as large as before. The paladin meanwhile is next to invincible, while the barbarian has been dead for fifteen minutes.

    Turbine; please consider improving the various healing abilities found in the EDs, to make them more useful for the classes who desperately need them.

  2. #2
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    Most healing overheals any decent player, any more healing and it would be to cover healing reduction(scarcely used), or bad players who are WF and don't take any heal amp/healer's friend.

  3. #3
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    The cocoon from the primal avatar tree is thought to be one of the best destinies at the tier one level, and it is a healing ability. That one could easily be twistable for someone who wanted some self healing.

  4. #4
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    umm primal avatar rejuvenation cocoon is GREAT healing
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  5. #5
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Exaulted Angel: T3: Renewal: Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 seconds, 5sp) Heals 1d2 HP per [4/3/2] character levels every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. If target is below 50% health, grants celestial shield, which absorbs [30/40/50] damage.

    Primal Avatar: T1: Rejuvenation Cocoon: Active (12 SP activation) (12 sec cooldown) (Empower Heal, Quicken, Enlarge) (SR: no) Protect target ally with a shield of [90/120/150] temporary HP for 9 seconds. Heals 5d6 HP every 2 seconds while the shield persists.

    What are you wanting, some new form of a mass heal?

    Then look at T6 of Exaulted, granted I find trying to build up a charge of 100 rather out of bounds of the rest of the ED charge time.
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 04-10-2013 at 11:00 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    twist rejuvenation cocoon: heal yourself
    twist renewal: heal others

    Proceed to dps
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  7. #7

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    The great thing about cocoon is it give you an initial little buffer to prevent immediate death then cures over time a bit more.

    I found you need to your build or gear to support the twists for them to be effective.

    Just twisting cocoon on your WF barb won't cut it but with some synergistic gear and build choices you can make it work Ok.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Exaulted Angel: T3: Renewal: Active Ability: (Cooldown 3 seconds, 5sp) Heals 1d2 HP per [4/3/2] character levels every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. If target is below 50% health, grants celestial shield, which absorbs [30/40/50] damage.

    Primal Avatar: T1: Rejuvenation Cocoon: Active (12 SP activation) (12 sec cooldown) (Empower Heal, Quicken, Enlarge) (SR: no) Protect target ally with a shield of [90/120/150] temporary HP for 9 seconds. Heals 5d6 HP every 2 seconds while the shield persists.

    What are you wanting, some new form of a mass heal?

    Then look at T6 of Exaulted, granted I find trying to build up a charge of 100 rather out of bounds of the rest of the ED charge time.
    I'm looking for something to equal out the damage I take. Even with 10% ghostly, 50% concealment and 9% dodge, I still get slaughtered if I don't have heals available. I've tried Renewal. Being healed for 40 hp every 2 seconds is not equal to the 400+ damage I take when a hit lands on me. It doesn't even help versus archers.

    The Cocoon is something I admittedly have no experience with, but 5d6 is still only 30. Add in healing amp, and we're looking at 75ish on a high amp toon. Every two seconds, that's 150 hp back or so, which is probably plenty to keep swinging, at least for a bit. I'll definitely have to look into this one, but it still seems pretty limited in the self healing area.

    Edit: Went and run what RC does; basically as soon as you get smacked for 90/120/150 damage, you lose your healing. In other words, the next time you get hit.
    Last edited by Varashad; 04-10-2013 at 11:19 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post

    The Cocoon is something I admittedly have no experience with, but 5d6 is still only 30. Add in healing amp, and we're looking at 75ish on a high amp toon. Every two seconds, that's 150 hp back or so, which is probably plenty to keep swinging, at least for a bit. I'll definitely have to look into this one, but it still seems pretty limited in the self healing area.

    Dude . . . I get back between 600-700 HP on a cacoon on a human melee with good amp. Spell power affects it as well so get some devotion.

    Unless you're expecting a quickened heal your OP is just plain wrong, there are excellent healing options in the EDs. You cannot expect good self-healing without some investment.
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  10. #10
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Don't RC and Renewal both take spell points, though? Wouldn't that make them non-starters on the classes that would need them most?
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  11. #11
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    You cannot expect good self-healing without some investment.
    This has always been true pre and post spell power changes that happened in game.

    Heck, my monk(light) with healing amp and a devotion 66 can do a healing Ki that I average about 90 on others, and 180 on myself. I'm better others can do better than that as well.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by arminius View Post
    Don't RC and Renewal both take spell points, though? Wouldn't that make them non-starters on the classes that would need them most?
    Items give you spell points.

    That's not nearly as much of a pain as slotting in devotion. I tried messing around with Cocoon on my fighter but after a while I said screw it and went back to SF pots.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Dude . . . I get back between 600-700 HP on a cacoon on a human melee with good amp. Spell power affects it as well so get some devotion.

    Unless you're expecting a quickened heal your OP is just plain wrong, there are excellent healing options in the EDs. You cannot expect good self-healing without some investment.
    More new information, good to know. I was expecting something to do with a heal actually. I probably should have expressed more detail in the OP, but I didn't find it needed. I have the standard heal amp package for half-orcs, 30% gloves, 20% ring, 10% ship buff. How you're getting 600 hp though is utterly insane. I'd really like to see a screen shot of your gear, your devotion, and any buffs you run while getting that much back.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    More new information, good to know. I was expecting something to do with a heal actually. I probably should have expressed more detail in the OP, but I didn't find it needed. I have the standard heal amp package for half-orcs, 30% gloves, 20% ring, 10% ship buff. How you're getting 600 hp though is utterly insane. I'd really like to see a screen shot of your gear, your devotion, and any buffs you run while getting that much back.
    it's not on one tick. Cocoon is a HOT effect. I test it by standing in lava with no fire resist, get the HP down below 100 and see how much I can get back.

    Test was done on a human ranger with 30+30+20+ 1 pally PL with 80 Ranger devotion, 90 Spell power item, 20 Spell power pot.

    On my human fighter It doesn't hit nearly as hard as he has no devotion (why the hell would he?) though I could slot it in if I really wanted to. Perhaps if a 4th twist was available it might be, but I'm still of the mind Silverflame pots and UMD'd scrolls are the best way to go.
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  15. #15
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    I swear by Fast Healing from Fury of the Wild personally. It's a Tier 1 Twist and heals my Monk for about 200+ HP every minute forever (It's a passive regen). Doesn't help much with high spike damage (Though it has raised me from incap once which was cool as hell) but you can easilly adjust your playstyle for that. Even my Ranger who wears an eMask of Comedy and has Maximize for Cure Serious Wounds has Fast Healing Twisted in. She gets a little over 100 HP per min and it saves on SP. For most Quests I have to really push myself for Fast Healing not to be enough to keep me going.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    Healing Spring is slow, but it lasts five minutes and is affected by healing amp, devotion, potency (universal), ardor and healing lore as long as those things are active/equiped when the ability is initiated. It is also an aura that heals everyone around you as well.

    I have a range of 4-440 HP healed each tick (with crits factored in) and as you would expect I average around 190-210 when it hits. With a better Devotion item it will get higher. Yeah, rolling low or getting hit hard just after the 20 second mark has passed sucks, but nothing a CSW or a few pots can't handle.
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  17. #17
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Current ED abilities that provide a form of healing

    Exalted Angel
    Tier 3 - Renewal - Costs SP, cannot be used for Self Healing as a Twist
    Tier 6 - Divine Wrath - Costs SP needs a 10 Stack of Ardor - Not Twistable
    Tier 6 - Reborn in Light - Requires a total of 100 Ardor+Ferver and has a 30 minute cooldown for 1000 HP healing

    Unyielding Sentinel
    Tier 3 - Healing Hands
    Tier 4 - Light the Dark - requires the Lay on Hands ability base 150HP
    Tier 6 - Unyielding Vanguard - 5 minute cooldown and requires Unyielding Resolve stack of 200

    Grandmaster of Flowers
    Tier 2 - Innate Wholeness of Spirit - Costs 30 Ki - Heal spell

    Fury of the Wild
    Tier 1 - Fast Healing every 60 Seconds 6d20 HP

    Shiradi Champion
    Tier 1 - Healing Spring 1d100 HP every 20 seconds for 5 minutes - As a twist there is only 1 use without the complementing abilities

    Primal Avatar
    Tier 1 - Rejuvenation Cocoon - Costs SP - 150 Temporary HP lasts 9 seconds heals 5d6 every 2 seconds or until the Temporary HP are gone

    My experience is that all of these are effected by positive spell power and healing amplification. Even SF potions are recommended to be used with Healing amplification to help reduce how many you need to drink in a specific time frame.

    The abilities that apply a Passive healing are not instant healing abilities, but abilities you can use to restore yourself between combat.

    RCs little twist of the temporary HP means to get its full effect you need to consider not getting hit for 9 seconds.

    If using these abilities from ED I would work in Devotion/Ardor and as much healing amp as possible.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    The EDs all seem to dramatically improve DPS. Legendary Dreadnought's Master's Blitz is simply devastating and the Fury of the Wild's Unbridled Fury is good on its own, and obscene when combined with manyshot. The Shadow Dancer ED grants considerable survivability, and decent DPS. Grand Master of Flowers offers solid bonuses all around, but only to monks, and again no healing.

    The only EDs offering any healing that is even slightly useful in combat are the Unyielding Sentinel, and the Shiradi Champion... And in these cases, it is very limited, and really very weak. Lay on Hands is worthless to a non-charisma based toon without paladin levels, and the Healing Spring is too random, too slow, and too limited. I was surprised there was no ability in the Exalted Angel ED offering massive healing, since it's supposed to be the cleric/favored soul ED.

    I did find the Fury Made Placid ability in Fury of the Wild... And looked at it seriously for all of ten seconds, until I realized how it neutered that ED. First off, it lasts too short of a time period. Healing 2d100 x5 means a maximum of 1000 hp will be healed. This is solid, but not even close to enough, since more likely it will be around 500 hp. A decently geared barb who is being healed by a heal spell will probably get about 400 from said spell... Secondly, Fury Made Placid costs its users access to the most powerful ability of Fury of the Wild; the Adrenaline ability, and the most powerful ability of the barbarian, Rage.

    I don't think I understand this at all. Paladins, rangers, flavor builds, etc all gained considerable dps from the addition of EDs, while maintaining their impressive self sufficiency and respectable damage mitigation. The barbarian and fighter and some monks, rogues and some other builds also gained dps... but what they needed was better healing. Why is it that of all the epic destinies, none of them offer any means of in combat quick healing that is actually useful?

    Are barbarians and fighters and other builds without blue bars not important from a development stand point? The weaknesses of many classes were adjusted, and the brute classes were left to continue to cling to a cleric. The differences now between a barbarian's dps and a paladin's dps is still considerable, but it is no longer nearly as large as before. The paladin meanwhile is next to invincible, while the barbarian has been dead for fifteen minutes.

    Turbine; please consider improving the various healing abilities found in the EDs, to make them more useful for the classes who desperately need them.
    I succesfully heal my ranger and tank with rejuvinating cocoon. Unless you expect an epic moment type deal - in wich case you have to be a 5-6 tier divine destiny. And I'm sure most melee don't want that.

    Also, the paladin/tank destiny is good. A regenerating AOE that drops 150 HP worth of heals, boosted naturally my devotion and heal amp. Mine drops for about 300-700.

  19. #19

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    Others have noted what EDs provide a healing option.

    I surmise that further revisions to EDs for more healing won't happen. One: There are plenty about already, although they aren't "canned" results as the OP might desire. Two: Healing is often related to a class ability. Having such an ability often means you have something else offset. For Light Monks, great self-healing but fewer hit points than other melees and greater defensive limits. For Paladins, great protections and healing but average DPS.

    The developers don't want to make any class too powerful in every category. If you want one thing, you often have to work for it and the results will still not be as optimal as in another class. I can add a reasonable amount of PRR on my Monk but it will pale to that on other classes and work less effectively. I can heal whole parties with Healing Ki but that only goes as far as the healing amplification of others.

    So my opinion is that you gotta live with it and grind for what you can't live with.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    I'm looking for something to equal out the damage I take. Even with 10% ghostly, 50% concealment and 9% dodge, I still get slaughtered if I don't have heals available. I've tried Renewal. Being healed for 40 hp every 2 seconds is not equal to the 400+ damage I take when a hit lands on me. It doesn't even help versus archers.
    So get some Devotion and healing amp. Any source of healing can very easily be boosted to many times greater than it's base numbers. My pure fighter usually gets ~150 healing off of each tic of renewal, with very little effort.

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