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  1. #1
    Community Member dominp's Avatar
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    Default Your cleric shouldnt heal you after a battle

    ok this is getting really bad guys and I know everyone doesnt do it but it just seems like so many do now that it is getting out of control. Running thru STK the other day and a rogue grabs some gold from chest but leaves a Cure Mod pot and other items in a chest and then continues on. Not more then 5 minutes later after we killed off a few mobs he stops and turns to the cleric and asks for a heal. This is completly after the battle is over, no mobs around, we are just regrouping and continuing on.

    Now I have played clerics before but this is exactly the reason that I now almost never do. Why do so many people insist on heals from the cleric when no battle is going on and could easly gulp down a pot or 2 to top off. I for one feel the only time a cleric should be dishing out heals is during battle or maybe someone running thru a trapped area that may cause him to go down, but if your able to sit there and type "heal?" then you can certaining click on a pot from your hotbar.... I know most people are just unprepared but come on, if your going to go running something like ww, stk, tangleroot or whatever make sure you are prepared. Bring your own pots and not just heals but lesser restore and remove curse also while your at it. And this post goes double for all the rangers, paladins and bards who for some reason still dont have the concept down of picking up their own heal wands in advance to take care of their own wounds on a quest.

    I guess this is why everyone thinks playing a cleric is so expensive and it can be if you have to waste mana and then wands to heal people who dont want to take the time to grab their own heal pots before they head out. Maybe I am just spoiled but I remember questing in my old guild and never even having to pull out a cure mod wand and actually having mana available for battle heals and crowd control, it works out nicely when you play with people that get it I guess.


    Update
    something I forgot to add before was a story from a few weeks back when I had to try 12 times (12!!!) to heal our incapped cleric with my heal kit cause the paladin, ranger and ranger/rogue in the group didnt have any wands. Here are 3 toons capable of using cure wands and none of them had one. Granted we were not very high level, 2 and 3 and the paladin had used his LOH already but how sad is it for everyone to be standing around watching a dwarf barbarian try and try to revive the cleric cause they didnt bother to grab a wand and of course no heal kits either.
    Last edited by dominp; 03-21-2008 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Update
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  2. #2
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    I agree completely at higher levels. However, you should keep in mind that at low levels, new players may not have the resources to afford to keep themselves completely stocked with every possible potion. That doesn't excuse the rogue that left the potion in the chest, of course, since you should always use what you find first.
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  3. #3
    Community Member BlueLightBandit's Avatar
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    That's exactly the reason my clerics all wield weapons and zerg more than the other party members. By the time they turn around and ask for a heal I'm already fighting the next group of mobs.

    In the real world, some people are alive just because it's illegal to kill them. That's not necessarily the case in DDO.

    Some people don't deserve heals... and as holder of the wands, it's your job to make that decision. Don't be afraid, and don't heal stupid people... just drop their stones off at the next shrine.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Or how about the bard that almost dies getting to Running with the Devils, I mean down to a slither...cant even see his red...
    zones in, leaves mobs at doorway, and stands there waiting, I assume, for me to zone in to heal him?
    Now, the fighter was at the same health, but he's a fighter. It would take alotta cash in pots to get him up to par.
    But a bard??

    I asked, before healing him, if he carried wands...he said no, spell.

    And stood there...
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  5. #5
    Community Member dominp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beherit Baphomar View Post
    Or how about the bard that almost dies getting to Running with the Devils, I mean down to a slither...cant even see his red...
    zones in, leaves mobs at doorway, and stands there waiting, I assume, for me to zone in to heal him?
    Now, the fighter was at the same health, but he's a fighter. It would take alotta cash in pots to get him up to par.
    But a bard??

    I asked, before healing him, if he carried wands...he said no, spell.

    And stood there...

    LOL that is classic...and yeah it would take alot of cash in pots for that fighter but why are clerics expected to fork out that cash in wands?

    And being realistic in cases like that where a fighter has gone down to almost no health in a battle then of course help him out with some heals and hopefully the cleric would have been healing him during the battle so he never gets that far down to begin with. Again its not about not healing anyone but just people doing their own part when they can to heal themselves and not be such a burden on the cleric.
    Last edited by dominp; 03-21-2008 at 03:39 PM.
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  6. #6
    Founder binnsr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beherit Baphomar View Post
    Or how about the bard that almost dies getting to Running with the Devils, I mean down to a slither...cant even see his red...
    zones in, leaves mobs at doorway, and stands there waiting, I assume, for me to zone in to heal him?
    Now, the fighter was at the same health, but he's a fighter. It would take alotta cash in pots to get him up to par.
    But a bard??

    I asked, before healing him, if he carried wands...he said no, spell.

    And stood there...
    My fighter carries 300 CSW pots (and refills when he drops below 100). I have no problem quaffing 30 or 40 pots to refill - especially if it was my stupidity (i.e. running ahead of the group to get to the quest) that brought on my near-demise..

    there's no excuse for a capped or near-capped character to not have some modicum of healing.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominp View Post
    LOL that is classic...and yeah it would take alot of cash in pots for that fighter but why are clerics expected to fork out that cash in wands but not other in pots?
    I havent carried a wand in months...Ive only used scrolls in The Shroud...so healing costs me nothing in quests.

    I dont begrudge any fighter/barbarian heals. I dont mind healing sorcs and wizards, I'll even heal bards in battle, but bards/rangers/paladins and rogues should all be able to look after themselves without using 50 heal pots.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Akhad_Durn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beherit Baphomar View Post
    Or how about the bard that almost dies getting to Running with the Devils, I mean down to a slither...cant even see his red...
    zones in, leaves mobs at doorway, and stands there waiting, I assume, for me to zone in to heal him?
    Now, the fighter was at the same health, but he's a fighter. It would take alotta cash in pots to get him up to par.
    But a bard??

    I asked, before healing him, if he carried wands...he said no, spell.

    And stood there...
    Hmm... so the bard can't do crowd control (vale mobs beat him up, thats just sad) , and can't heal (didn't self heal)... what did the bard actually do?

    Even if he isn't a devoted healer, he should have at least one spell slot selected as a healing spell. Self sufficiency FTW!
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  9. #9
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Beherit Baphomar;1628409]Or how about the bard that almost dies getting to Running with the Devils, I mean down to a slither...cant even see his red...
    zones in, leaves mobs at doorway, and stands there waiting, I assume, for me to zone in to heal him?
    Now, the fighter was at the same health, but he's a fighter. It would take alotta cash in pots to get him up to par.
    But a bard??

    Lord all mighty. One of many reasons my cleric is sitting at level 8 and not moving. To broke to go on. Some really bad PUGS that required me to expend huges amounts of plat on wands a rez scrolls. With not one payback or minor bone of cash to help. Level 8 she will be until I get enough cash on my Paladin to fund her. Speaking of my Paladin

    He carries csw pots, csw and cmw wands, and I have clw as a spell sometimes as well. I rarely use LOH on myself I usually reserve it for the main tank in heated battles. I never ask for heals and if its a long quest and the cleric is low on sp I will refuse any healing from them because I expect as a Pladin by god I can take care of myself if I have to. I also carry all the required pots in sufficient quantaties to pass out to others if need be. If you don't have inherent healing abilites either via spell or class gratned wand useage I expect you to carry pots I will heal you as you need it but if you have inherent capablilties take care of yourself when possible.

  10. #10
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akhad Durn View Post
    Hmm... so the bard can't do crowd control (vale mobs beat him up, thats just sad) , and can't heal (didn't self heal)... what did the bard actually do?

    Even if he isn't a devoted healer, he should have at least one spell slot selected as a healing spell. Self sufficiency FTW!
    No, he had the cure spells....but I guess it was my job (the cleric) to heal him.
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  11. #11
    Community Member zyp's Avatar
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    Have to agree with the poster who mentioned that most new players simply don't have the plat to stock up on the pots they need. I especially see this in the speed-leveling quests (WW, STK, TR, Delera's and CO6). This is a good time to take the opportunity and conscientiously inform these folks about the value of self-sufficiency. Ya gotta do this without making them feel like idiots, though. I always suggest to people that there is a lot of content we are skipping in these quests in order to get them done quickly and urge them to stock up on potions and maybe some important clickies and then come back and solo them so they can get the full picture. Nothing makes you appreciate self-sufficiency like soloing.
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  12. #12
    Community Member dominp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyp View Post
    Have to agree with the poster who mentioned that most new players simply don't have the plat to stock up on the pots they need. I especially see this in the speed-leveling quests (WW, STK, TR, Delera's and CO6). This is a good time to take the opportunity and conscientiously inform these folks about the value of self-sufficiency. Ya gotta do this without making them feel like idiots, though. I always suggest to people that there is a lot of content we are skipping in these quests in order to get them done quickly and urge them to stock up on potions and maybe some important clickies and then come back and solo them so they can get the full picture. Nothing makes you appreciate self-sufficiency like soloing.
    yeah if someone is new to the game or is starting out fresh on a new server then yeah you cant expect them to be able to grab 300 pots but get enough to get you thru a quest so that you can supplement the heals from the bard/cleric and not be a total drain on their mana.

    But come on, we have all seen the level 2 toons running ww with flaming swords and mithral platemail, completly twinked out and they didnt bother sending other a single wand or pot from their alt to the new toon, lol gotta love it.
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  13. #13

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    I hear ya on the frustration, but I have to disagree. My main is a cleric (Mockduck-level 16). I may not be the best cleric out there, but I think I'm generally pretty good at it. I think it's best party-resources-wise for a cleric to heal a group after a long battle. Now, if someone's at 90% I might let them hang for a bit. But mass heals after a battle are a good use of resources, I think.

    Now, my only issue is that oftentimes the group doesn't take the time to gather together for a few seconds after a battle for the mass heals/buffs/etc. It's a good strategy!

    But I agree - if you can cast a cure wand-spell, you really need to have a few basic things with you. A wand or two, just for those times when it's needed.
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  14. #14
    Community Member suitepotato's Avatar
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    1. Pots eat plat rapidly. It is LESS expensive to spend a PORTION of that plat by kicking into the kitty for the cleric to get wands and scrolls than each person carry pots. Also, many times rangers are expected to buff others and that means choosing between a spell slot for heals or buffs. When casters are out of mana and someone is asking for FoM, I got it.
    2. Many clerics are persnickety lately, taking out their problems with previous parties on new ones. In other words, because your last party was ill-behaved doesn't mean this one is and you should be doing your part as cleric, not meagerly healing only when you feel like it, needing to be told it because you're not paying attention to bars, etc. I've run with so many inattentive uncaring and ornery clerics over the last six months that I am not going to bother cooperating with the cleric population (other than those who don't burn me) as long as so many punish new pug party members for problems with past ones. Knock the chip off your shoulder people.
    3. Yes, clerics SHOULD be healing after a battle. Those tanks go down, kiss your butt goodbye next. Be thankful for there being a breather to get them ready to meat shield you during the next kill mob melee. If you don't by accident, say sorry to the person with 2hp left after you leave them for a good ten minutes fearing another death penalty. They'll be more likely to purposely court death protecting you.
    4. Any time a cleric asks me for some extra gold/plat, I help them unless I am broke. It's cheaper than pots and is part of the teamwork.
    5. I hand out greater mnemonic pots that sell for quite a bit of cash on the AH, and expect nothing in return. To clerics and casters both.
    6. I don't even ask for a single DV despite having mana points I use when asked to buff others including clerics (it does happen).
    7. What is this nonsense about self-sufficiency? Why doesn't this game population understand TEAMWORK?

    On that last point, I want to emphasize how sick I am of the lack of teamwork I keep seeing. I am tired of trying to kill something and at the last possible moment, the sorc wastes it when he could have done it to begin with, freeing me up to help another tank double-team a more powerful and annoying bad guy. I'm sick of intimitanks with two-handers jumping from melee to melee trying to get the killshot to count kills (NOTE TO TURBINE: PLEASE STOP SHOWING THESE IN THE XP SHEET, SERIOUS TEAM PEOPLE DO NOT CARE). I get clerics snickering over voice chat when they belatedly throw destruct on the person you are fighting.

    I don't care who gets the kill or manages what. I care about resources and efficiency. If you can nuke an enemy, by all means do it and I'll go put my efforts towards another enemy, because while you're enjoying the extra few seconds I am taking to win and gloating over how you're about to steal the kill just before I land the last shot, the other tank is down to 10% hp and needing a heal and that is taking scrolls/mana from the cleric. If I'd been helping that fighter, the cleric might not need to sling a heal till later or even at all as we kept knocking the aggro back and forth beating the bad guy down.

    Nevermind wizards with insufficient knock who waste mana over and over again because they don't want to wait for the rogue to get back from the shrine to pick a lock. Or splash rogues who know that they can't manage a trap on elite and instead waste themselves trying anyhow instead of waiting for the rogue to be free. Or fighters who let the rogue get nailed from behind instead of guarding him. Or clerics who stand there and don't heal the rogue who is getting backstabbed while dealing with the trap.

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  15. #15
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Sweet Tater, yer absolutely right.

    Teamwork is becoming less and less prevelant.
    Casters dont buff, clerics dont heal, barbarians zerg.

    EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES!

    New quest idea...6 different paths, we can all run off on our own!
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  16. #16
    Community Member Stormanne's Avatar
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    While I don't go to the extremes that others do, I tend to keep a boatload of CSW and CMW on my toons that can't wand whip. I've played a cleric now for a few months (not all members of my guild like the idea of having a cleric that plays with the mindset of a barbarian...lol). But in the rare occasion that I do PUG with her, I tell members of the party outright, this stuff is expensive and I'm not going to blow my plat on wands if they aren't going to chip in. Some people tell my that that's the clerics job and to suck it up, I tell them that they won't receive any healing from me. Most of the time they think I am joking until they die the first time and I pick up their stone and carry them to the next shrine. If they lack the heal skill to get topped off at said shrine, so be it.

  17. #17
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suitepotato View Post
    Does no one ever watch the opening video where the halfling leaps over the drow scorpion to get behind and distract while the wf whomps on him from in front?
    New video. Sorc buffs up, runs ahead and FoD's the scorp. The rogue would've jumped over him, but who brings a rogue any
    more? The WF has hit his speedboost and ran ahead, got zapped by the beholder and is heard screaming "rez me!" in the
    distance. The cleric ignores him to melee the beholder, healing only himself the whole time. The paladins heard yelling "Im a gimp!" over and over.
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  18. #18
    Community Member captain1z's Avatar
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    My cleric has been in gianthold for weeks and I ran out of wands lat night. The group I was with was kind enough to give me 8 which is more than I usually carry (3 max). I just hadnt taken the time to run to house J and get more.

    I dont discriminate in the healing, I just watch the bars, but I will make note of certain things.

    If there is a WF in party he only gets heal spells and if some is taking large amounts of damage I ask them ..... "why?"
    Could be they need a buff, a hvy fort item or whatever they are attacking may need to be blinded or greater commanded

    I did have one funny moment (funny for me anyway) where one party member types "can I get a heal"
    I looked at his bar and it was full so I ignored the request. He types again "can I get a heal please 236/265 (+40)"

    I chuckled and kept going. For 30 points at 14th level theres always pots,other party members, ham or just wait till the next group heal.
    (its not like your gunna die)
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  19. #19
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain1z View Post
    I chuckled and kept going. For 30 points at 14th level theres always pots,other party members, ham or just wait till the next group heal.
    (its not like your gunna die)
    I swear I get so mad when I hear things like this, brings back painful memories of a complete ***wipe in LOTD - Mentau side.
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  20. #20
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    Question Hmmmmmmmmm..........

    Quote Originally Posted by dominp View Post
    Now I have played clerics before but this is exactly the reason that I now almost never do. Why do so many people insist on heals from the cleric when no battle is going on and could easly gulp down a pot or 2 to top off. I for one feel the only time a cleric should be dishing out heals is during battle or maybe someone running thru a trapped area that may cause him to go down, but if your able to sit there and type "heal?" then you can certaining click on a pot from your hotbar.... I know most people are just unprepared but come on, if your going to go running something like ww, stk, tangleroot or whatever make sure you are prepared. Bring your own pots and not just heals but lesser restore and remove curse also while your at it. And this post goes double for all the rangers, paladins and bards who for some reason still dont have the concept down of picking up their own heal wands in advance to take care of their own wounds on a quest.
    What the heck, you actually want me to be RESPONSIBLE for my own toon's life???

    Ohhhh please.............. what's this old world coming too!!!

    The above said very tongue in cheek.

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