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  1. #1
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Default Build Advice on an Intimitank

    I was here awhile ago for advice on a Rogue build, and now I've decided I want to play an Intimitank when I get tired of playing my Rogue. Here's the build that I made based on my research on the wiki and forums. Criticism and discussion welcome.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 372
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 5
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    17
    Intelligence          9                     9
    Wisdom                9                     9
    Charisma             14                    14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance              -1                    -1
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         3                     3
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                 -1                    -1
    Intimidate            6                    44
    Jump                  3                     6
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently        -1                    -1
    Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                    -1
    Spot                 -1                    -1
    Swim                  3                     6
    Tumble               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      4                    13.5
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation IV
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
    Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
    Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I
    Notes: I made this build in mind to be a tank first, and then squeeze in some DPS where I could and/or nothing else fit. I understand that a splash of Paladin might be useful, but I have no clue where to put it. Also, I know that Paladins might make a better tank, but I only have 28-pt builds available to me at the moment and I know that they're a bit stat starved and feat starved.

    EDIT: I got bored, so I made another one for fun. It's more tank-oriented. I left out the enhancements and skill points, because I was just checking out the feat progression.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 282
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 8
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    18
    Dexterity            13                    14
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         13                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     4
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     2
    Intimidate            6                    13
    Jump                  2                     4
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         1                     2
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     1
    Spot                  1                     1
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      4                     4
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    EDIT: Are glancing blows worth taking the THF line?
    Last edited by Fluffysaurus; 07-20-2012 at 11:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Well seeing as I have no replies, I'd decide I'd bump this with some more information. I read up a bit on glancing blows, and I decided they were at least somewhat important. Here's what I've got now that I am following.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 282
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 7
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    19
    Dexterity            13                    13
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         13                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    11.5
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     1
    Intimidate            6                    25
    Jump                  2                     4
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         1                     1
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     1
    Spot                  1                     9.5
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      4                    12.5
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    See my Sentinel Squire for my take on a 28-pt human tank. Need to get around to updating it for U14, though...

  4. #4
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    See my Sentinel Squire for my take on a 28-pt human tank. Need to get around to updating it for U14, though...
    I remember using your builds as templates a long time ago. I gave it a look, but I saw things I would not take, but that's just me. Are your builds geared towards new players, or just anyone in general?

    EDIT: I looked around at it, and I see a build similar to mine that I didn't see last night. You offer a lot of good arguments.
    Last edited by Fluffysaurus; 07-21-2012 at 12:08 PM.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffysaurus View Post
    Are your builds geared towards new players, or just anyone in general?
    Depends on the build. In general I try to flag which ones are intended for newcomers without twink gear, like the Sentinel Squire and Tempest trapmonkeys, and which ones have higher requirements.

    I haven't updated my tank builds for U14 yet - still figuring out all the changes myself - but the basics remain the same. You still need a solid mix of DPS (both to hold aggro and kill things faster, of course), threat amp / aggro mgmt (from a mix of Intim, threat-amp gear, and defensive stance bonuses), and survivability (from a combination of HPs, AC, heal amp, high saves, possibly Evasion, and good defensive buffs / gear). The good news is Turbine has improved several previously nigh-useless feats in the last couple of years; the downside is it makes it that much harder to plan out a tank build, because feats which you might have ignored in the past have become a lot more useful, so the tradeoffs get even tougher to choose.

  6. #6
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Depends on the build. In general I try to flag which ones are intended for newcomers without twink gear, like the Sentinel Squire and Tempest trapmonkeys, and which ones have higher requirements.

    I haven't updated my tank builds for U14 yet - still figuring out all the changes myself - but the basics remain the same. You still need a solid mix of DPS (both to hold aggro and kill things faster, of course), threat amp / aggro mgmt (from a mix of Intim, threat-amp gear, and defensive stance bonuses), and survivability (from a combination of HPs, AC, heal amp, high saves, possibly Evasion, and good defensive buffs / gear). The good news is Turbine has improved several previously nigh-useless feats in the last couple of years; the downside is it makes it that much harder to plan out a tank build, because feats which you might have ignored in the past have become a lot more useful, so the tradeoffs get even tougher to choose.
    I'm not sure which feats were changed. Can you point them out for me?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 282
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 7
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    19
    Dexterity            13                    13
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         13                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    12.5
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     1
    Intimidate            6                    27
    Jump                  2                     4
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         1                     1
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     1
    Spot                  1                    10.5
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      4                    13.5
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    I made another feat progression for my Fighter, Zerendill. Here ya go.

    EDIT: I was thinking about taking out a weapon spec for SF:Intim.
    Last edited by Fluffysaurus; 07-21-2012 at 03:36 PM.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffysaurus View Post
    I'm not sure which feats were changed. Can you point them out for me?
    In no particular order:

    • Shield Mastery & ISM provides bonuses to double-strike & PRR; Imp Shield Bash as a 20% offhand proc chance. Those boost your survivability & DPS while tanking.
    • Combat Expertise now provides +15% AC rather than +5 AC. [With all the AC changes in U14, though, still trying to figure out if that's a good thing.]
    • Imp Sunder causes -10% fortification and -3 stacking Fortitude debuff. Note that the latter always procs, even if the target makes its save vs DC.
    • Precision provides -25% fortification +5% to-hit and Turbine got rid of the half-dmg penalty, making it much more useful; however, you can only have one of Precision / Power Atk / Combat Expertise active at any time.
    • Cleave & GC do more dmg & have faster cooldowns; also, they're pre-reqs for Overwhelming Critical epic feat, which is a no-brainer for a melee DPS build. There's also a couple of nice abilities from Legendary Dreadnought which build on Cleave (Momentum Swing, Lay Waste).
    • Dodge + Mobility provides +5% Dodge chance and +2 MDB, making them pretty useful to a S&B tank, IMHO.
    • Power Critical now acts as a +2 Seeker bonus (stacks with everything AFAIK).
    • Whirlwind Attack does more dmg, but it's still slow and expensive to take, so IMHO it's still not worthwhile.
    • Not a recent change, but: THF feats provide glancing blows when S&B fighting w/dwarven axe & bastard sword (assuming you have proficiency).

    At one point or another, most of these feats were considered weak if not useless and thus could be ignored. Now you're forced to make tough choices about tradeoffs of DPS vs dmg avoidance / mitigation - which is the way it should be, IMHO, even if it's maddening to try to find the ideal balance.

    As for your build, it's a lot like my Sentinal Squire, so I won't repeat myself too much. I'll just say I think you're spreading your stats too thin; I recommend base stats 16 / 12 / 16 / 12 / 8 / 8 with lvl-ups into STR; use +1 DEX & INT tomes to get Dodge / Mobility and Combat Expertise; and use Intim enhs (from ftr & Sentinel DMs) to boost your Intim to make up for dumping CHA. On a 32 / 34 / 36 pt build you can look into bumping CHA; on 28-pt it's too expensive, unless maybe you're going for pally / ftr hybrid.

  8. #8
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Well, I can't do much about the stats except reroll and I don't feel up for it. I boosted CHA because I was aiming to get higher Intimidate and UMD. I probably will invest in some tomes. If you true reincarnate, do you keep the tomes you applied in your last life?

    I've got most of those feats you mentioned in my build, but I have more questions. Is cleave worth it at all? Can I use cleave with Combat Expertise? Will it at all take away from my tanking ability? I ask that last question because I'm curious as to if there are pre-reqs for tank feats in Epic destinies.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Combat Expertise now provides +15% AC rather than +5 AC. [With all the AC changes in U14, though, still trying to figure out if that's a good thing.]
    According to the release notes it is actually 10%.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    A little update on how the character is going:

    I'm reaching thirty plus AC unbuffed and close to forty when I am buffed at level four. I'm still wondering if cleave is worth it, because it just reminds me of the same thing as glancing blows. I'm hitting 10+ on damage.

  11. #11
    Community Member jwdaniels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffysaurus View Post
    A little update on how the character is going:

    I'm reaching thirty plus AC unbuffed and close to forty when I am buffed at level four. I'm still wondering if cleave is worth it, because it just reminds me of the same thing as glancing blows. I'm hitting 10+ on damage.
    As a melee, cleave/great cleave is your only way of dealing AoE damage to a group. You will want to be able to do this later on. Particularly once your hits start doing lots of damage with all sorts of added effects it will make a very big difference.


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  12. #12
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwdaniels View Post
    As a melee, cleave/great cleave is your only way of dealing AoE damage to a group. You will want to be able to do this later on. Particularly once your hits start doing lots of damage with all sorts of added effects it will make a very big difference.
    Just one problem, however. I have Combat Expertise, and therefore I cannot get it. Is it worth it to switch over to Power Attack? Is it worth a loss of 10% armor class? It's not a total loss, because Power Attack gives some decent dps. If I wanted to be a full on tank, though, CE is a must.

  13. #13
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    I recently used the LR to get whirlwind on my tank, its not as good as cleave/great cleave combo for dps not even close honestly as it works now, the double whirl+pause is a fairly bad dps break. However, its still better than having nothing aoe to get aggro with so if you are going a defensive path it might be worth picking up (and praying they fix it or you TR out of it later if they don't)

  14. #14
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenrissulf View Post
    However, its still better than having nothing
    I don't want to get something broken. I may just switch to THF for dps because I'm already getting the THF line.

    EDIT: I could always drop greater weapon spec and focus for cleave and great cleave. Get cleave at an earlier level and push everything back for a bit.
    Last edited by Fluffysaurus; 07-23-2012 at 06:57 PM.

  15. #15
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    Well my tank is a 12/6/2 fighter/paladin/monk that used to be fairly powerful, its a bit... maybe not broken but its far less powerful than it used to be TR'ing her soon to something else, with greatsword/bastard sword use, full THF line. I picked whirlwind up try it out for next life. So I use power attack with whirlwind most of the time unless I am actually tanking something and its not bad or broken really, it just needs that pause taken off the end of it to make it even close to competitive dps with cleave/great cleave.

  16. #16
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenrissulf View Post
    Well my tank is a 12/6/2 fighter/paladin/monk that used to be fairly powerful, its a bit... maybe not broken but its far less powerful than it used to be TR'ing her soon to something else, with greatsword/bastard sword use, full THF line. I picked whirlwind up try it out for next life. So I use power attack with whirlwind most of the time unless I am actually tanking something and its not bad or broken really, it just needs that pause taken off the end of it to make it even close to competitive dps with cleave/great cleave.
    Well, I didn't mean to say broken. I just don't personally think that's for me. ._. I like cleave better and I, too, have the THF line. That also sounds like a very nice combination. I was thinking about making a 18/2 fighter/paladin. Not sure on what to do with it, though.

  17. #17
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The main problems with Whirlwind Attack have always been (A) it's very expensive feat- and stat-wise (need 5 feats & min. DEX & INT 13) and (B) it's a slow attack with a pause at the end, which actually reduces your overall DPS. The only reason I can see taking it is if you already had or wanted the other feats - say, for an AC tank, to whom D/M/SA provides +7% Dodge and +2 MDB and CE provides +10% AC (thx for correction Ryiah) - and happened to have a feat to spare for it. And even then, it's only occasionally useful.

    Cleave & GC are better than they used to be, but the main reasons to get them IMHO are for the Overwhelming Critical epic feat & Legendary Dreadnought abilities related to them. But when it comes to OC, which requires base STR 23, here's where your base stats kinda mess you up: if you start base STR 16 + 5 lvl-ups + 2 tome = 23 you can get OC pretty easily; but if you start base STR 14 + 5 lvl-ups, you'd need a +4 tome (or +3 and our lvl 24 stat pt) to hit 23.

  18. #18
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The main problems with Whirlwind Attack have always been (A) it's very expensive feat- and stat-wise (need 5 feats & min. DEX & INT 13) and (B) it's a slow attack with a pause at the end, which actually reduces your overall DPS. The only reason I can see taking it is if you already had or wanted the other feats - say, for an AC tank, to whom D/M/SA provides +7% Dodge and +2 MDB and CE provides +10% AC (thx for correction Ryiah) - and happened to have a feat to spare for it. And even then, it's only occasionally useful.

    Cleave & GC are better than they used to be, but the main reasons to get them IMHO are for the Overwhelming Critical epic feat & Legendary Dreadnought abilities related to them. But when it comes to OC, which requires base STR 23, here's where your base stats kinda mess you up: if you start base STR 16 + 5 lvl-ups + 2 tome = 23 you can get OC pretty easily; but if you start base STR 14 + 5 lvl-ups, you'd need a +4 tome (or +3 and our lvl 24 stat pt) to hit 23.
    Either way, it works out. I guess I'm getting cleave.

  19. #19
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    I have a new question. Is it "better" to have Power Attack for the cleave or Combat Expertise for the AC? Should I sacrifice some DPS so I can have both? I would get rid of the weapon specs and focus to fit in cleave and possibly improved trip.

  20. #20
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    I do not mean to necro or anything, but I'd like to keep all my information in one post. I'm thinking about coming back and I was curious about what's changed between U14 and U16 for fighters and intimitanks. Any ideas?

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