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  1. #1
    Community Member catmamor's Avatar
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    Default How to be a better Cleric

    I started playing DDO last September and my first toon was a Cleric who is now a 9.

    I have been soloing with hirelings since starting (along with other toons - Druid, FVS etc) and last night was my first party with fellow guildies (they were fab btw) on elite on Derlera's Tomb. I died a few times and we had a total wipe and some near wipes. I used a ton of mnemic pots (v expensive) but I don't feel I did my best.

    I am looking for advice on how to best play a healing Cleric - do I keep out of the way and heal or do I get involved in the fight?

    I would appreciate your comments as I would like to be a beyond-awesome Cleric!

    Thanks folks


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  2. #2
    Community Member Kilbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catmamor View Post
    I started playing DDO last September and my first toon was a Cleric who is now a 9.

    I have been soloing with hirelings since starting (along with other toons - Druid, FVS etc) and last night was my first party with fellow guildies (they were fab btw) on elite on Derlera's Tomb. I died a few times and we had a total wipe and some near wipes. I used a ton of mnemic pots (v expensive) but I don't feel I did my best.

    I am looking for advice on how to best play a healing Cleric - do I keep out of the way and heal or do I get involved in the fight?

    I would appreciate your comments as I would like to be a beyond-awesome Cleric!

    Thanks folks
    If you want to actively embrace the role of healer, you're going to need to hang back and let the others do the fighting. Your job will often be a thankless one, although some like myself will always make it a point to pass mnemonics to the healers and thank you for your services. Just hover on the outskirts of battle and watch everyone's health bar. Toss cures as needed to keep them up and moving. Ask your guildies if they'd mind getting some cure disease, poison, blindness, and curse pots so you can focus on hit points and pre-fight buffs. If you have spell slots left over and any good spells present themselves, slot some ranged offensive spells so you can still contribute to DPS while staying out of Melee.

  3. #3
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    The first thing you need to think about is why did you use a bunch of pots? Was the group bad? Were you overhealing excessively? Were you just managing you SP pool poorly?

    It's hard to overcome a bad group. This was your guild, so if they were bad hopefully you'll learn together and get better. They should be helping you heal them to the greatest extent possible. That means having their own cure pots. At later levels, that means maximizing heal amp and using your radiant aura to the fullest extent possible. Any spell that a pot works as well as the spell, your party members should be providing. You shouldn't be casting Remove Blindness, Remove Curse, Poison Neutralization, or Lesser Restoration on a fellow party member ever. It's their responsibility to have those pots. As a low level newbie cleric you definitely don't have enough blue bar for that. If your guild is new, full stacks of these may be expensive. That really doesn't matter, it only takes a few pots to get through any mission. I buy my pots in full stacks of 100 for convenience. I seldom use more than 10 in a given quest and that's unusual.

    You also need to manage your SP pool and not overheal. If I have a ton of HP for the level, it's OK for me to enter a fight at 60% health. There are occasions where you'll want to keep everybody pretty full at later levels, but most low level stuff doesn't have unavoidable damage spikes. The second part of SP management is your offensive casting. Are you going nuts and just burning up your SP with offensive spells? If your priority is healing the party with minimal resource usage, you'll have to monitor your SP and turns closely. In Delera's, your bursts are one of the party's best offensive weapons but they are also the best mass cure you have.

  4. #4
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    Without knowing much about your character and style, we can't really tell you what to change.

    What is your rough build?
    Do you have the Radiant Servant Prestige class?
    Do you have any metamagic feats? (Remember that many can be applied to the radiant healing burst for free.)
    What spells were you using and how? Were you throwing offensive spells as well? Were you applying metamagics to them all?

    What happened with the rest of the party? What was damaging them most? Traps? Spells? Missile fire?
    Were they able to kill the mobs in there effectively? (There is some nasty DR in there for example.)

    General advice:
    Your burst heals people around you, is boosted for free by metamagics, and your turns regenerate. Plus in Deleras, it will also damage the mobs.
    Try to get as much use out of that before burning SP on spells.

    You can select metamagics for individual spells by right-clicking on their icons. Applying empower to your burst is good. Applying Empower to your Cure Light is bad.

    In many quests, Command and Sonic burst are effective spells for preventing damage to the group. Unfortunately that won't help for Deleras, which is full of undead.

  5. #5
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    Your level 9 cleric should have shined like a nova in Delera's. I suspect the problem was that you were not aggressive enough! Charge in, gather mobs and radiant burst them. Mass CLW if a burst is not enough, or let others to clean up.

    Burst should be a room cleaner on normal/hard, provided you have invested in devotion (item and enhancement) and taken metamagic feats (metamagics can be applied for free to radiant bursts).

    Dispatch casters at range with cheap light spells (searing light, nimbus of light).

    Cure with wands. Non-metamagicked Cure Moderate Wounds is the most cost-effective SP-healing (if you have time) before Heal.

  6. #6
    Community Member catmamor's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for your comments. I think I am going to have to re-think my feats.

    We were running Delera's on elite with a short team and with me not having any previous party experience probably meant we didn't do as well as we could have.

    My Cleric, atm, isn't totally tuned to healing - she is part battle Cleric without actually being one. She's my first build and I kind of did it blind. I'm going to have a look at DDOwiki for a Cleric build and re-jig her a bit to make her more useful.

    The only problem I find with having FVS, Barb, Pal and Druid tunes that I am sometimes playing, my play-style can get stuck in melee-mode and I forget that I can't do that with my Cleric, she isn't so strong.

    Thanks again for all your help

    Happy hunting.


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  7. #7
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    There's a few things people didn't take into account too :

    - First and foremost : Elite difficulty is unforgiving, especially with a 28 pointer ( I suspect your character, being your first is a 28 pointer )
    - Second : DDO is not D&D ( sur table ).
    - Third, you might not have all the nice items somebody that has been playing for years has been able to collect.

    That being said : don't let yourself restricted to the Healer function only. A Cleric can do way more.
    At Level 9 you can have the Radiant Burst enhancement, in Deleras it has two great functions :
    It hits the undeads, and it heals your friends, as long as they are in the burst area of effect.
    And it is not tied to your mana but to your number of Turn Undead.
    ( don't really bother with using Turn Undead, unless you specifically built for it, with a high charisma and have items that adds levels to Turn DC, you won't turn anything )
    As you need to be near the people that needs to be healed by it, you can stay in the melee and add your damage output ( yes it's lower, but who cares, everybody knows the damage output of a Cleric is lower than a fighter or a barbarian ) in the fight.
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  8. #8
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Learn to let people die: not everyone is worth your heals. You'll save lots of sp once you understand who's worth to be alive
    Last edited by pHo3nix; 04-08-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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  9. #9
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    I have looked up your cleric. Gear up!

    Immediately toss your bracers. The bonus does not stack with your armor. Destroy the cloak of faith. Your own spell is better. You also have a mass version. Power on helmet does not stack with wizardry on plate. Dex on gloves does not stack with dex on ring. Sustenance (bonus to heal skill) is something you don't need.

    If you don't have plat (and you probably don't) - here what you do:

    Study this guide:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=284046

    Post a LFM for levels 9-25 saying something like "help me get heavy fort" for the quest Relic of the Sovereign past.

    Or ask your guildies.

    Do it twice, collect 30 ore, and get Necklace, Bracers, and possibly Helm. I guess you could also use the full plate and perhaps longsword (if you're a follower of the sovereign host).

    Get Charisma for extra turns (e.g. on cloak). Get Str and Con (e.g. Gloves, Belt). Get resistance bonus to saves (e.g. ring).

    Consider dishing 20-25 astral shards (only if you have them e.g. from daily dice) for Dalorent's Seal, I've seen some on Ghallanda Shard Exchange. At lvl 11-12, add an impulse augment crystal for stronger blade barriers.

    Together that should carry you to level 15-18.

  10. #10
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catmamor View Post
    Thank you so much for your comments. I think I am going to have to re-think my feats.

    We were running Delera's on elite with a short team and with me not having any previous party experience probably meant we didn't do as well as we could have.

    My Cleric, atm, isn't totally tuned to healing - she is part battle Cleric without actually being one. She's my first build and I kind of did it blind. I'm going to have a look at DDOwiki for a Cleric build and re-jig her a bit to make her more useful.

    The only problem I find with having FVS, Barb, Pal and Druid tunes that I am sometimes playing, my play-style can get stuck in melee-mode and I forget that I can't do that with my Cleric, she isn't so strong.

    Thanks again for all your help

    Happy hunting.
    With this being your first attempt at party healing, you should definitely stay out of the fray and focus on healing. Save your Mana for healing and let the melee and casters do the killing. It's not the most fun thing to do (Play Nanny Bot) but it might make the difference in success and failure.

    Once you are more comfortable with your healing skills, then start trying to help in other ways. Also, if you are not a Radient Servant, you should reset your enhancements to get that.

    I have 2 Battle Clerics that I play and they can be just as effective at healing as any other cleric.

  11. #11
    Community Member brickwall's Avatar
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    The trouble with being a "healer" is that the people your healing the fact that they require you to heal them simply means that they are not built properly running fail builds. Proper build toon's do not require a healer at all not to say it is not nice to have one in case things get rough there are a few circumstances where even with self healing you just cant do anything. By being a healer you take on the roll of babysitter and you have no idea what your getting in to trying to keep people alive that should not have even made it as far as they have with there less then adequate build. If you have to toss more then a few heals the entire quest the people your with are sub par and should reroll. If you ask me any party that requires a healer is not a party I want to be in ill gladly take 5 well build clerics and watch then own everything with divine punishment and blade barrier 9 times out of 10 the cleric is one of the most powerful under appreciated players in the party. You should not be questioning your self you need to be questioning everyone else. If someone dies more then 3 times with me they stay dead and are dismissed at the end of the run. If someone fails to follow my directions they are dismissed as the end of the run. I have tried to sit and explain to people what and why and how to fix them self's but 9 times out of 10 they get angry so I don't even try anymore I just dismiss them. If you really want advice look me up on ghallanda id be happy to have a look at your build and offer my advice in person.
    Last edited by brickwall; 04-08-2013 at 09:37 AM.
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  12. #12
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    First lets get a couple things cleared up...

    1. Elite Deleria's can be rough for a first timer
    2. Turn Undead is your friend in undead heavy quests - It is also one of the most misunderstood abilities
    3. Drinking potions for Spell points should be your last option
    4. People requiring healing does not mean they are Fail builds
    5. All Clerics/FvSs/Druids/Bards/Artificers need to use the gray matter between their ears to get the most use out of their abilities



    Turn Undead
    As a Radiant Servant tier 1 you no longer need to be able to turn 2x the HD of an undead to destroy it, you just need to be able to turn it.

    It is broken into two rolls

    First roll determines the Highest HD you can Turn. This is based off of a d20 roll plus your charisma modifier. The lowest you can turn is your Effective Cleric Level -4 and the Maximum (without gear/spells) will be your Effective Cleric Level +4. As a Radiant Servant I taking only the minimum enhancement of Improved Turning I, your Cleric Level would be 10 (Min 6HD and max 14)

    Second Roll Determines how many HD you can turn. Which is 2d6 + effective cleric level + charisma modifier. Without any gear/spells your effective cleric level is 10. With a 0 charisma modifier the minimum HD you could turn is 12 HD.

    Now lets look at the things you would need to boost your turning and is available at your level.

    Signal of the Silver Flame - (Necropolis Level 5/6 quests)Bloody Crypt Chain Scarab Dust Turn in. This will get you 2 extra turns per rest
    Seek Eternal Rest Spell - This adds +4 to your Effective Cleric Level

    Sacred Item - Adds +2 to your Effective Cleric Level (Stacks with Eternal Rest)
    Eternal Faith Item - Adds +2 to your Effective Cleric Level (This part does not stack with Sacred), Adds +2 to your Highest Turn HD and +4 to your Number of HD Turned. (Cannith Craftable bound Level 59)

    As a Radiant Servant I think simply adding in the Seek Eternal Rest Spell and a sacred item will make your turning rather effective at your current level. Since burst and Turn are on separate timers, doing a Turn Undead followed by a burst would clean up large groups of undead rather quickly.

    Drinking potions for Spell Points
    This is not a good habit to get into and it what turns many people off of playing a Divine. You need to evaluate why you used so many Spell Points;
    • Over healing - your cure spells are being cast where 20%+ is beyond the HP of the person being healed
    • Over buffing - passing out buffs that are not needed just because you can, don't go to the extreme of no buffing. Use the Examine (Z normally) on players to see what buffs they already have.
    • Under buffing - an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. For example at level 9 a 20 Resist vs. 0 Resist can go a long way. The arcane like their lightning and Acid arrows and the Wight's love their level drains.


    Next is the use of your other resources. Are you carrying and using Cure Wands, Restore Wands, Cure Disease Wands, Restore Scrolls? At Level 9 you can also carry and use the Heal Scroll. Yes all of this does require some platinum to get started, but you don't need to buy a stack of 100 to start. Look at what you can afford right now and buy what you can. At this level these resources should be used between combat and not your Spell Points. For group healing use your Radiant Bursts, don't be afraid to tell the party to "Group Hug".

    People Requiring healing - Does not mean a Fail build
    Everyone is going to get hurt sometime. The trick as a cleric is to figure out just how much healing is needed and to use the right spell to do it. With the ability to have spells set to specific Meta magic enhancements on the toolbar, setup multiple ones, a version with and a version without. This will allow you to apply the right amount of healing to the Barbarian and to the Wizard.

    Also #1 rule - never chase someone down. There is a reason they are taking a lot of damage or are dead. Don't rush in and join them. You can get to them, just do it so the fight is in your favor. Don't worry about them screaming at you. They made the choice to get in over their head.

    Generally when the whole party is getting beat it means the wrong approach was used to handle the encounter based on the resources available. When overwhelmed fighting in a doorway means making the fight more in your favor as they can't all attack you at once and casters can't get a line of sight on everyone. Healing 2 is cheaper than 4 to 6. Basically call for a tactical withdrawal if the odds are not in your parties favor.

    Use your head and you will find being a Cleric to be most enjoyable. Learn when to step up and when to step back. When to let loose with SP and when to conserve (This will be easier once you have a better grasp on where Shrines are and how many are available)
    Last edited by Enoach; 04-08-2013 at 11:11 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    avoid using sp.

    your main source of heals is a heal scroll, carry 100-300 of them. 100 scrolls is cheaper than one sp pot.

    main group heals is radiant burst, try to use this when the group gathers together like at doorways or chests. make sure yo uhave it set to have all metas on.

    at level 12 you get an aura, stay next to anyone that is injured to top them up. for harder fights you can shield block and stand up with the melee and keep them in the aura while trying to not get hit yourself.

    for all things like remove disease, cure blindness etc, they really should have their own pots, and so should you. It saves sp. A heal scroll will also remove most of this stuff.


    you should use sp to heal only if..

    its a major fight where damage coming in is higher than you can heal with bursts and scrolls, basically raids and some non raid rednames, and a few places in the game where it goes from no mobs to mobs spawning and you are in orange alert right away.

    or you missed, maybe they ran behind a wall at the exact wrong moment and they really need a heal now and not in 6 seconds (when the scroll comes off timer).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    avoid using sp.
    Great advice in the post by LonnBeimnech. Trying to keep a group alive with minimal sp usage is a great skill to work on. It is also a good habit for raid healing. Anytime you can solve a problem without using blue (or a lot of blue), that is the way to go. Save blue for emergencies... if you are in a constant state of emergency then something is wrong.

    As a cleric, your first goto heals should be:
    • Your Aura when you have it
    • Scrolls
    • No metamagic csw or cmw (Something that you can keep going with echos)
    • Bust - But only with a purpose

    If you are having to use higher heals, or lots of bursts then make a decision why. If your group is fighting the end boss... that is why, suck it up and be glad you saved your spell points. If your group is fighting a pack of low level trash mobs and the red bars are dropping like a rock, sometimes the worst thing you can do is keep them topped off. Most players assume that if their red bar is full, life is sweet and the group is winning. If you let them feel a little pain, they start avoiding damage. If you are in a situation where most of the players bring their incoming damage back to appropriate levels... except one... You have a choice. Either verbally ask them to stop hitting the mob with their face, or keep them in your aura and hit them with some scrolls and low healing but if that isn't enough to keep them alive v.s. trash mobs... let them drop a time or two. Simply state "I couldn't keep up with all the damage you were taking" and let them figure it out. You have a responsibility to the group, and if you blow your spell points keeping Leroy up... you might find you just failed the group.

    I also do not agree with the instructions to be a wall flower. That teaches bad habits and doesn't use one of your most efficient healing tools (your aura). If you aspire to be a battle cleric, first learn to shadow box.

    Setup: Hotkeys for your scroll, healing spells and your weapon setup.

    Multi-Target 101
    Step 1. Hold the mouse button down, do not let go. You should be swinging your weapon.
    Step 2. Press a function key. You just targeted a player, but your sword... it is still swinging.
    Step 3. Press a hot key for a healing spell. You just cast a heal, on that player. Your weapon should pause, then keep swinging.

    Multi-Target 102
    Do the above, only swap in a scroll to heal and then hotkey back to your weapon and keep swinging. I use a five button mouse so I can swap heal scrolls and primary weapon sets with my mouse hand. I also put my emergency heal on a mouse button AND a hot key so I can always get to it.

    In DDO, the physics based combat means that you can swing your sword and hit something other than your target. Part of the life of a battle cleric is that sometimes you don't get to see the HP of what you are fighting because you are looking at the HP of what you are healing. For a battle cleric, healing doesn't mean you stop moving, or stop swinging your weapon. Get used to this, even if you are a beginner sitting outside combat being a wall flower, get used to having to track multiple things. Even in a raid where you are not swinging your weapon, you may be running for your life and the need to multi-task is still the same.

  15. #15
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csivils View Post
    Even in a raid where you are not swinging your weapon, you may be running for your life and the need to multi-task is still the same.
    So true...
    Kitting half the mob in FoT while scroll healing yourself ( to stay alive, with Several Dragons and a Few Giant making a Conga line behind you, it can be tough ) and trying to raise somebody ( somebody, just anybody in the party, because you're more or less the last one standing )...
    That's something you will have to be able to do one day as a Cleric. ( En Français, c'est plus clair : c'est quelque chose qu'il faudra savoir faire, un jour... )
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  16. #16
    Community Member diamabel's Avatar
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    On the low levels I resort to wands (e.g. cure medium wounds / cure serious wounds). I never use those mnemonic potions on lower levels as there is hardly ever a need for. What is good is the archivist set because of the 2 times recharging of a tiny bit of your spellpoints.

    Since the sp costs for all healing spells have been lowered since quite a long time you shouldn't run out of sp so fast.

    The improved healing feat is useful later (level 6) to get the radiant servant prestige enhancements. You can do fine without it in lowby land. Actually it will make healing spells cost significantly more. It's not really efficient on low level healing spells (despite the healing bonus). The enhancements to improve the efficiency of your healing spells and wand usage are more interesting options. Even some ardour items will give you a little bit of a cheap boost (although not as good as it used to be).

    You can put all available healing spells on an action bar (and also the wands). Since every spell has its own cooldown you can rotate between spells and wands which is good if you need to heal lots of incoming damage. But then it would be good to observe the party. Who's in trouble? What is their target priority? Did they eliminate casters first? Did they unnecessarily take damage because they didn't move out of a cloud spell? etc. The healing alone won't win the day.

    You can use the F-keys to select party members. That requires some training though. IIRC you can have one action bar as the active action bar which allows you to trigger the actions with the number keys (1-9). Despite that I still do all the healing only with the mouse (right hand on mouse & left hand on wasd for movement). Oddly enough I use the keys and keybinding in other MMOs more extensively.


    Later the healing game will change as you get more tools.
    Last edited by diamabel; 04-08-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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    Rather than repeat some of the good advice you've already gotten, I'll make a suggestion about play style. You teach people how to treat you. When you start a quest there's nothing wrong with saying "I only have one mass cure spell, play smart" or "Most of my heals are aura/scroll so be prepared to top off your own red bar." If, in the first fight, people ran off, agro more than they should while doing nothing to reduce the amount of incoming damage and you go through half your blue bar keeping people alive, no one says "that went well, but the healer is low on sp so we'll have to play more conservatively from now on". What they say instead is "that worked, let's keep zerging".

    Finally something you've probably figured out, but I really wish someone had told me about when I stopped soloing and started grouping. You can target party members for heals by clicking on their Vitals (hp/sp) bars in the party list. I didn't figure this out until after I had capped my cleric ... and my favored soul.

  18. #18
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    Key things to understand :

    Cleric is not a healer. A cleric can heal, but a cleric can also do many many other things.

    Elite quests are not often balanced for their level. Some elites are easier then their level, some are harder. Surprises in elite quests can be quite deadly (having a trap go off you didn't see, getting shut in with spawned enemies, not knowing that the enemies all have special DR, not knowing when shrines are coming up or if a quest is shrine heavy or sparse, etc.)

    Elite quests are just that, elite. There is an expectation of you being somewhat prepared for the extra challenge. You wouldn't fight a dragon as a level 5, would you?

    Tips to improve play:

    1) If you want to become a good cleric, or really a good caster of any sort, forget that SP potions exist. I know this will sound harsh, but if the group is going to fail and you have to drink potions to keep everyone alive, let it fail then. Try to learn what went wrong.

    2) If you want to improve your play ability, forget hirelings as well. Take your cleric into a normal dungeon by yourself, and try to wade through it.

    3) Play with other good clerics your level. See what spells they cast, see which spells they don't cast, and afterwards look them up on myDDO. Take a look at their gear, take a look at their stats and make a note of how you differ from them.

    4) Don't stand still. Be proactive, realize that damage mitigation is often much easier then healing. Blinding or stunning that group of 6 mobs is easier then casting 2 mass cures.

    5) Have fun and keep trying different strategies.

  19. #19
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default True...

    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    Learn to let people die: not everyone is worth your heals. You'll save lots of sp once you understand who's worth to be alive
    Unless it's me. Then raise me no matter WHAT the cost!

    If you want pointers, hit me up on the weekends, during the week I am usually working on my main, and he's a little high level for you right now, but we got a couple really good divines in my guild, and they would drop everything to bring someone up to speed on "the best class ever EVAR."

    Happy Hunting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
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  20. #20
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    I would like to reiterate what Stormraiser said.

    A Cleric is not a healbot.

    At lower levels, the Soundburst spell is good for stunning mobs.

    After 9th level, Greater Command is even better for crowd control.

    Together, both spells actually save SP. Why? Because a stunned or flattened mob is a mob that isn't hitting anyone. Less damage on your party is a good thing.

    Learn when to cast offensively and when to stand back and heal. Takes a little time, but its worth it.

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