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  1. #1
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    Default Cleric and Favored Soul healing and build information for the Melee Player

    Divines can be offensive caster with crowd control or DOTs or Insta killing, or melee which does not use spell points much except for Divine Favor and Divine Power. Divine Power can be taken on an item instead and very effective with enough clicks till the next shrine. Instead of the particulars of right and wrong about Cleric builds can get two thumbs up on this information to follow.

    Can we agree that as a group/raid healing Cleric as long as a Cleric takes 17 levels he/she can be an effective healer and the healer that the majority of the groups expect them to be? As a single divine in a 6 man group, or one of only two divines in a raid?

    That is because with Cleric level 17 minimum they get two level 9 spells including Mass Heal. Clerics can swap spells easily at rest shrines. Favored Souls with 18 levels gets one level 9 spell and can mass heal too although you probably should ask them cause it takes 3 days for them to change spells. They are slightly better at melee and casting and have a spell point pool to do it although their healing abilities cost them more in sp.

    High Level raid healing is a combination of Heal/Mass Heal/Heal Scrolls. The Heal scrolls mainly for when the other spells are on cool down or to conserve spell points. Heal Scroll are available at mid level and most smart Divines carry stacks of 100 to 200.

    Meleeing or Casting can mitigate incoming damage to the party and prevent a need to heal with spell points.

    I would question a Divine if they splashed more than 1 level early in their build prolonging the use of Heal, Mass Heal, Blade Barrier and Divine Punishment (DOTs).

    Come on. I think I can get two thumbs up on this from the majority of the players on the forums?

    If anyone else wants to add your +1 or -1 on this feel free?
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 04-02-2013 at 01:56 PM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Yes, melee specc'd divines can be good healers.
    (Is this what you were trying to say in your post, op?)

    There are 2 considerations to this:

    1. The person playing the character makes the most difference.
    2. The build and gear make a difference.

    I have seen plenty of non-healers do a great job main healing a party just because of their play skills. Properly specc'd and geared or not, the main difference between a "great" healer and a "poor" one is the player at the keyboard/mouse.

    A build with some investment into positive spell power and some sort of spell power devotion boosting item will have a much easier time playing main healer, because they get more heal per cast.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  3. #3
    Community Member ariel7's Avatar
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    Default Free your mind

    Question a build all you want, you can effectively do a lot of things by removing limitations - from yourself and others.

    My main is currently 2 pal 2 monk 8 cleric. 30 reflex (unbuffed except ship) 35 dc stunning fist, 360 hit points. Only deaths in my groups have come from running into traps.

    Player >>>>>>>>>>> gear/build
    Nightbreak currently (July 2015) life 50 something with no idea of what the final will be.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariel7 View Post
    Question a build all you want, you can effectively do a lot of things by removing limitations - from yourself and others.

    My main is currently 2 pal 2 monk 8 cleric. 30 reflex (unbuffed except ship) 35 dc stunning fist, 360 hit points. Only deaths in my groups have come from running into traps.

    Player >>>>>>>>>>> gear/build
    You can build a self healing type with some divine splash, and probably group heal till around lvl 12 with lots of gear, but after that with a deep splash you will have trouble being a group healer role as described above at high levels. You can probably get away with any build up to around level 10-12 in the game in general. After that without research and planning you may struggle lvl 13+. I know that cause I made the mistake of splashing a fighter lvl at 1 and 14 on a divine and had trouble getting invites as a main healer role.

    As for the Pal2 up there? I think some go Half Elf and CLR17/18+monk3/2 and just take the Pally Dilly for saves with Improved Paladin Dilettante III. But that is only if you want to fill the role of group healer at high levels, and raids.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Dilettante_feats

    I have seen many toons on my friend list stop around level 15. All they had to do was use the forums for build and gear advice.
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 04-02-2013 at 07:00 PM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Divines can be offensive caster with crowd control or DOTs or Insta killing, or melee which does not use spell points much except for Divine Favor and Divine Power. Divine Power can be taken on an item instead and very effective with enough clicks till the next shrine. Instead of the particulars of right and wrong about Cleric builds can get two thumbs up on this information to follow.
    Divine Power can be obtained from clickies, but it will have a lower duration then even a non-extended version. If melee is part of your divine's focus I recommend having this spell memorized.


    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Can we agree that as a group/raid healing Cleric as long as a Cleric takes 17 levels he/she can be an effective healer and the healer that the majority of the groups expect them to be? As a single divine in a 6 man group, or one of only two divines in a raid?
    No, effective healer requires knowledge of their spells as well as knowledge of how to handle situations. Effective raid healing does not require Heal, Mass. But that spell can help a lot in different situations. Depending on the player and the group Cure Light, Mass and Cure Moderate, Mass can be more than enough healing required. Heal, Mass's primary benefit is its ability to cure other ills like disease, poison and stat damage. An effective Raid Healer knows which is needed to best support his party and increase their likelihood of survival.

    Saying Heal, Mass is the requirement to raid heal would be ignoring the Bard, Druid and Artificer builds that have healed raid groups.


    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    That is because with Cleric level 17 minimum they get two level 9 spells including Mass Heal. Clerics can swap spells easily at rest shrines. Favored Souls with 18 levels gets one level 9 spell and can mass heal too although you probably should ask them cause it takes 3 days for them to change spells. They are slightly better at melee and casting and have a spell point pool to do it although their healing abilities cost them more in sp.
    17 Cleric levels gets you 2 of the 5 Level 9 spells - Heal, Mass is only one possibility. It is a good spell to have in the arsenal but raids have been effectively and efficiently healed without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    High Level raid healing is a combination of Heal/Mass Heal/Heal Scrolls. The Heal scrolls mainly for when the other spells are on cool down or to conserve spell points. Heal Scroll are available at mid level and most smart Divines carry stacks of 100 to 200.
    High level raids (assuming you mean epics) all have different healing methods depending on strategy.

    The 12 on 1 <- Effectively the Boss Beat down.
    If EDs are available it could consist of Divine Wrath (EA Tier 6) for damage and healing, Heal, Mass, Burst healing (Melee Cleric), Cure, Mass for spike cooldowns and Aura (melee cleric).

    Other ED abilities with low cost SP that would be used are Renewal (EA) and Cocoon (PA)

    Scrolls are generally regulated to Spot heals - Concentration checks during heated combat make these less reliable.

    The 1 on 1 <- Effectively the Boss Tank.
    Generally this will be done with the cheapest and most effective healing options available - Scroll heal with a single target Heal/Cure/Capstone (for FvS)/ED (Renewal/Cocoon). Goal is to keep one person alive taking all the damage while the rest of the party takes little to no damage while beating the Boss Down.

    The Trash
    Cure, Mass/Bursts/Aura/Capstone and spot heals as needed. Ideally this is a low damage intake section, the fewer SP spent hear means more for the Boss Fight, which will mean more Offensive DoT casting while healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Meleeing or Casting can mitigate incoming damage to the party and prevent a need to heal with spell points.
    Effective Meleeing or Casting can mitigate incoming damage to the party. Using resources and not being able to control the agro or mobs through the effort can lead to more trouble. Using the SP and melee abilities and landing CC or holding agro and taking less resources to maintain that than letting the party get mobbed is effective. Constantly spamming Greater Command/Comet Fall and getting no results is not effective - know your enemy and know your limits.

    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    I would question a Divine if they splashed more than 1 level early in their build prolonging the use of Heal, Mass Heal, Blade Barrier and Divine Punishment (DOTs).
    I would not, it is their build. There are many reasons to splash levels early. It depends on when they feel that they need those abilities. If they feel they must have Heal, Mass to raid and they want to start raiding by level 18 then they have chosen when it is best for them to splash. However, if they feel that evasion, extra feats or some ability they can get from taking a specific class level that would be beneficial to them. It would be most wise to take the level when it gives them the most bang for the buck.

    Again, you don't need Heal, Mass to be a good Raid Healer, but it is a darn good tool to have.

  6. #6
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    I would heavily argue that while mass heal is a nice spell to have, its best purpose is SP conservation.

    I have run healers with only lvl 8 mass cures for over 4 years, (15cleric, 16fvs) and been able to handle any healing duties the game can through at me. With feats + Potency/Devotion items, clickies and enhancments you have more than sufficient means of healing. You just lose alot of efficiency in doing so.

    Also I'm finding in EE quests, mass heal is a major roll of the dice and results in more deaths than I'd like.

    I'm finding Cocoon to just be the greatest thing ever as a healer. The more damage you can squeak out by the least SP spent the better in my opinion, and also why I run nothing but battle healers.

  7. #7
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    Great information. And I am surprised from it on the Melee Forum. So far I have only run my Cleric to lvl3 EA and lvl5 LD. I look forward to getting the FOTW and PA up soon. I have a generalist that is designed to take advantage of a few destinies like LD attacks with Cleaves, EA, and Draconic/Magister with SF Evocation.
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 04-03-2013 at 10:05 AM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  8. #8
    Community Member ariel7's Avatar
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    I've solo healed shroud when cap was 16 on a splashed cleric (1 wizard 2 rogue). Just saying let other people play and some will surprise you.
    Nightbreak currently (July 2015) life 50 something with no idea of what the final will be.

    Proud officer of ArchAngels.

  9. #9
    Community Member wtorchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveohio View Post
    Also I'm finding in EE quests, mass heal is a major roll of the dice and results in more deaths than I'd like.
    I have had the same problem. I am running a 17 cleric/2 pal/ 1 fight BC right now. I dropped mass heal about 3 weeks ago. I have not missed it 1 bit. Even with quicken the damage spikes are too quick in EE.

  10. #10
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    No, effective healer requires knowledge of their spells as well as knowledge of how to handle situations. Effective raid healing does not require Heal, Mass. But that spell can help a lot in different situations. Depending on the player and the group Cure Light, Mass and Cure Moderate, Mass can be more than enough healing required. Heal, Mass's primary benefit is its ability to cure other ills like disease, poison and stat damage. An effective Raid Healer knows which is needed to best support his party and increase their likelihood of survival.

    Saying Heal, Mass is the requirement to raid heal would be ignoring the Bard, Druid and Artificer builds that have healed raid groups.
    Healers without mass heal will be chugging pots as the mass crit has half the efficiency at twice the cost and if even a single player has poor healing amp and a large HP pool you cannot make up the damage without spot healing, essentially causing you to hemorrhage even more mana.

    Not to say it cannot be done, but you need an exceptionally strong group to support your gimp healing.

  11. #11
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    I wouldn't say exceptionally strong group, and certainly wouldn't say gimp healing, rofl. Perhaps you should roll a divine up before you speak like you have any clue what they can do.

    Only when you group with those that are poorly built will the extra sp drain come into effect.
    A fully meta'd (emp + emp heal + mazimize + quickened) mass cure takes about 95 sp to heal 300 normally and 600+ with crits.

    This effectively buffers the same amount of incoming damage as a mass heal which costs abit over half of that sp. Over healing happens alot in this game.

    The thing is, with the advent of insane burst damage in EE, you'll more than likely be using the mass cures instead of mass heal because its casting time is 4x faster, and the spike damage that you see in EE will almost force you into using mass cures over mass heals. Many simply cannot stand and tank 2-3 shots in EE, so they are forced to back out of the melee ball, which means if you have started to cast that mass cure, its going to miss half the group or if they get hit one more during that casting delay, they are dead, cause you to spend more total SP to raise + rebuff.

    To be an effective healer in EE, right now you need: Empowered Heal, 2-3(meta'd) Mass cures, and rejuv cocoon. Nearly any smart player can be kept up with spot rejuvs on trash, and a combination of the above during boss/mass AoE fights.

    I've had only a few issues with excessive pot usage, and its not because of a lack of mass heal or divine levels, its because of unorganized groups, and **** builds.

    EH FoT, EE anything I've been able to do with 0 resource usage on a first life 32 pt, lvl 16 fvs splash toon, and this isn't just once or twice, this has been my main toon for 5+ years and has over 600+ raid completions as the only or second healer.

    Mass heal is nice in long raids where you have a big melee ball and AoE damage centered on that ball, it is more efficient.

    However, the major issue with mass heal is the casting time, it effectively makes fighting while casting impossible. You simply cannot cast it in melee range if you expect to do any dps at all, along with the spike damage that characterizes EE, you simply are casting it less and less.

    And yes, I do have, and have had over 6 different divine builds which featured mass heal.

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