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  1. #1
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    Default Thinking about going melee... 20 FvS with a LR+3

    I'm a 20 FvS evoker with 2 wizard past lives, and I'm thinking about going melee. Long term I'd like to solo EE content.

    I'm human with +3 tome to all stats.

    I'm thinking 17 FvS / 2 Monk / 1 Fighter for evasion + fighter weapons + 3 feats but my reflex saves will be so low that 2 paladin instead of 2 monk might be a better choice. No evasion, but heavy armor + sick saves.

    Which will work the best for soloing EE after some destines?
    Last edited by Laeelin; 04-07-2013 at 12:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeelin View Post
    I'm a 20 FvS evoker with 2 wizard past lives, and I'm thinking about going melee. Long term I'd like to solo EE content.

    I'm human with +3 tome to all stats.

    I'm thinking 17 FvS / 2 Monk / 1 Fighter for evasion + fighter weapons + 3 feats but my reflex saves will be so low that 2 paladin instead of 2 monk might be a better choice. No evasion, but heavy armor + sick saves.

    Which will work the best for soloing EE after some destines?
    17FVS gives you a solid base for reflex saves, and depending on what you want to twist, you can get +6 from a tier 1 twist (probably unearthly reactions for the +3 dodge too).

    Depending on what feats you want to get, 1 Ranger instead of 1 fighter may be a better option - you'll get an additional +2 reflex from the ranger level, martial weapons, and bow strength. If you're looking to include burst damage from manyshot into your build, ranger 1 is hands down better than fighter.

    My view is that evasion, whilst not a 'must have', can mitigate a lot of damage in EE, and with 17FVS/2Monk/1Ranger you'd have a base 15 reflex saves from heroic levels, which is about as high as you can get from those without splashing paladin. Even the 1 fighter variant has 13 reflex saves from heroic levels, which is higher than any pure class can achieve - I wouldn't call this a 'low' reflex save by any means.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loriac View Post
    17FVS gives you a solid base for reflex saves, and depending on what you want to twist, you can get +6 from a tier 1 twist (probably unearthly reactions for the +3 dodge too).

    Depending on what feats you want to get, 1 Ranger instead of 1 fighter may be a better option - you'll get an additional +2 reflex from the ranger level, martial weapons, and bow strength. If you're looking to include burst damage from manyshot into your build, ranger 1 is hands down better than fighter.

    My view is that evasion, whilst not a 'must have', can mitigate a lot of damage in EE, and with 17FVS/2Monk/1Ranger you'd have a base 15 reflex saves from heroic levels, which is about as high as you can get from those without splashing paladin. Even the 1 fighter variant has 13 reflex saves from heroic levels, which is higher than any pure class can achieve - I wouldn't call this a 'low' reflex save by any means.
    It's high from character level, but really low because dex is dumped. Isn't low 60's needed for EEGH?

    Losing so much PRR / AC is only worth it if I reflex saves are high enough for evasion to be good. I'd love for it to be, I just don't think they will be without anything in Dex or 2 Paladin levels. It's a shame that leap of faith isnt a level 16 ability.. I'd love 16 FvS / 2 Monk / 2 Paladin if not for the loss of leap of faith.

    First Draft...


    Code:
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (2 Monk \ 1 Ranger \ 17 Favored Soul) 
    
    Strength             16 + 6 levelups
    Dexterity            14
    Constitution         16
    Intelligence          8
    Wisdom                8
    Charisma             16
    
    
    Feats: 
    (Human Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    (Automatic) Evasion
    (Automatic) Bow Strength
    
    (Selected) Cleave
    (Selected) Quicken Spell
    (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    (Selected) Great Cleave
    (Selected) Rapid Shot
    (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    (Selected) Manyshot 
    (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
    (Selected) Precise Shot
    
    Notes: Need to swap empowered healing for maximize if I want the Angel of Vengence Prestige
    Last edited by Laeelin; 04-07-2013 at 09:14 AM.

  4. #4
    Founder Firepants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeelin View Post
    It's high from character level, but really low because dex is dumped. Isn't low 60's needed for EEGH?

    Losing so much PRR / AC is only worth it if I reflex saves are high enough for evasion to be good. I'd love for it to be, I just don't think they will be without anything in Dex or 2 Paladin levels. It's a shame that leap of faith isnt a level 16 ability.. I'd love 16 FvS / 2 Monk / 2 Paladin if not for the loss of leap of faith.

    First Draft...


    Code:
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (2 Monk \ 1 Ranger \ 17 Favored Soul) 
    
    Strength             16 + 6 levelups
    Dexterity            14
    Constitution         16
    Intelligence          8
    Wisdom                8
    Charisma             16
    
    
    Feats: 
    (Human Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    (Automatic) Evasion
    (Automatic) Bow Strength
    
    (Selected) Cleave
    (Selected) Quicken Spell
    (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    (Selected) Great Cleave
    (Selected) Rapid Shot
    (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    (Selected) Manyshot 
    (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
    (Selected) Precise Shot
    
    Notes: Need to swap empowered healing for maximize if I want the Angel of Vengence Prestige
    If you go Exalted Angel you can get Leap pretty easily, depends on how much into epic you're planning on going with the build.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Which ED were you planning on using? If you went SD, you'd gain Evasion & Incorporeality, which would help your survivability; and +6d6 SA, which would help your DPS, esp. if you use Radiance weapons or equip Imp Deception (e.g., epic Golden Guile). Then you could do FvS 18 / pal 2; get the "sick saves" you want, keep a lvl 9 spell, and still have Evasion.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  6. #6
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeelin View Post
    Losing so much PRR / AC is only worth it if I reflex saves are high enough for evasion to be good. I'd love for it to be, I just don't think they will be without anything in Dex or 2 Paladin levels. It's a shame that leap of faith isnt a level 16 ability.. I'd love 16 FvS / 2 Monk / 2 Paladin if not for the loss of leap of faith.
    Don't forget that you can always use medium armor for particular situations where evasion is not so useful, and get back at least some PRR / AC.

    With a base dex of 14+3(tome), you should be able to hit 30 with items etc (probably a bit higher even), so I would guess you should be able to get to high 50s with one twist (haven't calculated it exactly, but a juggernaut can hit this with a similar dex on the ranger variant, and your reflex from classes is 4 higher).

    Notes: Need to swap empowered healing for maximize if I want the Angel of Vengence Prestige
    Precise shot is also potentially swapable; whilst the potential for +30% damage is very nice, it takes a while to fully 'charge up' and if you don't use the bow much outside of the manyshot window, it won't ratchet up to very much additional damage in the 20secs that you're firing arrows.

    As to choice of ED, the ranger variant is almost forced into FotW to maximise the furyshot synergy (LD may be better if you're soloing though, as a fully stacked master's blitz will give you very high damage, which offsets the loss of furyshot).


    Shadowdancer for a FVS/Pal build is a decent choice, but you may also want to consider primal avatar - you can pick up evasion from that destiny, but tbh I've not been following the threads on the epic moment and I think it may have been nerfed (or alternatively, fixed, depending on your point of view lol) recently.

    If primal avatar has been fixed, then its worth bearing in mind that shadowdancer dps is a fair way behind LD or FotW, and the added survivability SD brings is much less useful on an FVS build that already has very high survivability due to healing.

  7. #7
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    Wings are highly overrated.

    Go with 16 fvs 2 pal 2 monk

    Its been my main for a few years and i feel its the best battle(melee style) healer possible. I've run over a dozen different healer builds at cap, and they have all not compared. Still 32 pt build because hes much better/more fun and way more survivable than any other build out there.

    I Highly suggest dwarf.
    Roughly 900hp, 50+ to all saves, all 4 healing metas, 6x crits anx a solo beast in LD. Slightly more hp, better defenses and more on tap dps in fury for groups and raids.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the suggestions everyone...

    Part of me still hates losing wings, but I must admin that unless I'm zerging and getting high dungeon alerts it's more "convenient" than "incredible"

    Being willing to give up Leap of Faith opens up a lot of other class combinations as well. I actually already TRed into 17 FvS / 2 Monk / 1 Ranger, but don't like the ranged at all. Even with Manyshot. The new version will be dropping many / all bow feats.

    I can get a +5 heart and then I can swap in a lot of levels. I just want great survival (quickened heal + evasion - or even without evasion) on a solo melee with reasonable DPS.

    I have many different options now...
    16 FvS / 2 Monk / 2 Paladin
    12 Fvs / 2 Monk / 6 Ranger
    13(14) FvS / 2 Monk / 4(5) Anything Lawful
    16 FvS / 4 Anything

    Currently I'm planning on this:

    16 FvS / 2 Monk / 2 Paladin
    Basics: THF build with lots of HP/Saves and evasion. 500+ HP before gear. Wears Light armor. LD Epic Destiny.
    Feats: PA, Toughness, Cleave, Greater Cleave, THF, ITHF, Quicken, IC:Slashing, Maximize, Extend (not needed, but I like for the quality of life on DP and etc.), OC, Epic Toughness
    Edit: I just wanted to mention that Extend may be swapped to empower healing at some point. Maximize is there for AoV and DP (and non-evading mobs with BB).


    Any other suggestions?
    Last edited by Laeelin; 04-10-2013 at 12:33 PM.

  9. #9
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    I personally do not think the full ow crit line is worth it on a divine.
    To give you a frame of reference, i play nothing but battle healers, and to effectively maintain healing while at the same time using cleave/great cleave/momentum swing/lay waste as they pop is incredibly demanding and is too much micromanaging.

    My personal main the golden roach has been lr'd 4x the past few months ive come back to the game(afk since u10) and ive found that ic you want to take a healer spot in ee or eh raids, you will need emp/emp heal/maximize without the mass heal spell, your healing is burst healing centered on the melee squad. Without at least emp heal and maximize you will not be able to effectively do your job.

    I currently run twf, itwf, gtwf, toughness, quicken, maximize, empower, emp heal, power attack, imp crit, cleave to be the most effective feat layout. I originally took epic toughness instead of cleave, but later swapped it so that i could charge masters blitz in ld. I usually run in fury unless im soloing and can score the kills, its performance is too unreliable in a full group and no matter what way you build, you still won't be a tier 1 dps toon.

    Taking the full cleave line would be fine for a soloist or 12lvl divine splash, but you will severely hinder your healing potential without the meta feats.
    Also. Thf is not always the best option. Slower animation-> greater time delay till you can heal.
    Also i have higher crits and more consistant dps with twf. Esos/fot 2H'r vs templars justice/aoa.

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