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  1. #1
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    Default BYOH with a fighter

    hi there,

    i'm having problems with self healing my lvl 13 fighter. what options do i have to keep my health up in a fight? the only thing i have are the cure serious pots which heal for about 30 hp. that takes up to half a minute and 12 pots to restore my 380 hp. being in a fight at the same time makes things considerably worse.
    what am i missing here?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by derboesegolf View Post
    hi there,

    i'm having problems with self healing my lvl 13 fighter. what options do i have to keep my health up in a fight? the only thing i have are the cure serious pots which heal for about 30 hp. that takes up to half a minute and 12 pots to restore my 380 hp. being in a fight at the same time makes things considerably worse.
    what am i missing here?
    You're hitting the "suck" wall on a fighter's self healing. CSW pots won't really keep up and the high level options simply aren't available yet.

    If you were a Helf you could use the Cleric Dilly to do heal scrolls which are a heck of a lot better.

    If you splash a rogue level you can train UMD to do the same but that's much more gear intensive and not viable for a new player.

    400 Silver Flame favor make those healing pots available which are brokenly awesome.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

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  3. #3
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    the thing is the sf pots are not available to me, even at higher levels because i do not have the adventure packs which give sf favor. do i have any other options or am i dependant on a divine caster?

  4. #4
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    tactics are key. damage mitigation is what you want to strive for, soloing or in a group with a healer. playing smart and pulling mobs 1 or 2 at a time helps a lot, but you have to have patience. killing quickly and efficiently helps reduce the amount of damage. heal amp to boost your healing from pots makes a difference. the higher it is, the more hp you regain back. use the quest to YOUR advantage and not the mobs, by using doorways, not letting yourself get surrounded and fighting what you can handle. know the quest and the mobs. know how to deal with mobs and come prepared with potions, gear and proper weapons. if soloing, theres no shame in bringing a hire. I use them all the time, but they are not my crutch. you don't have to have them follow you through the quest. you can summon them whenever you need them because they can save your arse in bad situations and save you pots. unfortunately, in game there is nothing better than CSW pots for non umd if you don't own packs to get SF favor. its possible to still be self sufficient without SF pots, but there will be times when you may need fast healing and a lot of it. tactics will play a bigger role in that case.

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    Without UMD (which would require a pretty sizable gear investment) Silver Flame potions really are about it. But there are still some things that you can do to mitigate the problem.

    Get yourself some healing amplification. Humans have access to three Enhancements, and Half Elves two. You can find LootGen gear with Healing Amp now. And then there is the Finger Necklace. Healing Amplification, because of the way that it stacks multiplicative rather than additively (except for Fleshmaker) works a lot better the more sources of it that you are able to get.

    And on the other end of the spectrum, you can reduce the amount of healing that you need. This means making sure that you have all of the proper Elemental Resistances at all times. Get a Blurry item, such as the Nimble Trinket from Crystal Cove or the Bracers of Wind if you missed that. And stack a Ghostly item on top of that, like the Cloak of Night from Mabar Festival or Ring of the Stalker.

    The final thing that you can do is try to keep to the edges of the fight. Let someone with self healing charge the group first, then follow them in and cut down those casters or other high priority targets. It is pretty much unavoidable that you will take damage. But there are a lot of ways that you can really alter the magnitude of that damage!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by derboesegolf View Post
    the thing is the sf pots are not available to me, even at higher levels because i do not have the adventure packs which give sf favor. do i have any other options or am i dependant on a divine caster?
    Get the packs.

    That or you need to build for it. Helf with Cleric dilly or UMD are pretty much your only options.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
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  7. #7
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    Well there is hirelings. But yes you've hit upon what this particular MMO is about :/

    Choices right now:
    - healing options - you've covered
    - stopping getting hit so much - AC, blur, moving out of the way in time, etc
    - stopping the mobs so that they can't hit you as much - crowd control like trip, stun, using caster's webs in the party,etc
    - when you do get hit taking less damage - resistances, PRR (highest level armor type you can), etc.

    It's part of the challenge of this game I guess.

    Edit: oh... and if you can do the last 3 very well the techniques and skills stand very good for end game where at a certain point healing yourself just doesn't cut it - the aim is not to take damage in the first place. Trying to put a positive spin on this, consider this good practice maybe? If you watch very good players play (I am not one but I get a chance to watch them) they will minimize their damage even with very little gear. You could of course be one of those awesome twitch players and you already to this
    Last edited by MeliCat; 04-06-2013 at 08:07 PM.
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    If solo: Bring a healing-capable hireling. The scaling difference if any should be made up for by the availability of the heals and other abilities they bring.

    If in a group: Don't join BYOH groups.
    Fortunately as far as I know BYOH groups are still a minority, and while the forums may belittle those who spend less real-money on the game or pick a less fashionable class, you should be able to find people to quest with.
    As long as you are competent, friendly, and help the team, non-BYOH groups should be happy to have you.

    Note that there is nothing inherently wrong with the BYOH idea. But no matter how good you are, or nice to have you in the team, if you can't heal yourself through that dungeon, you shouldn't join a BYOH group.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatzhas View Post
    If solo: Bring a healing-capable hireling. The scaling difference if any should be made up for by the availability of the heals and other abilities they bring.

    If in a group: Don't join BYOH groups.
    Fortunately as far as I know BYOH groups are still a minority, and while the forums may belittle those who spend less real-money on the game or pick a less fashionable class, you should be able to find people to quest with.
    As long as you are competent, friendly, and help the team, non-BYOH groups should be happy to have you.

    Note that there is nothing inherently wrong with the BYOH idea. But no matter how good you are, or nice to have you in the team, if you can't heal yourself through that dungeon, you shouldn't join a BYOH group.
    This is really false. Any quest has a chance to be BYOH, even if not stipulated. Most people will take the first five. At least that's how it's been for the last few months.

    As to the OP, choosing Half Elf and taking cleric dilli is a good choice. I've done two fighter lives this way, and, combined with heal amp, it's very effective. You just have to learn how to scroll heal.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatzhas View Post
    Don't join BYOH groups.
    Simples!


    More seriously though:

    Are you Stalwart or Kensai?

    Assuming Human -

    If Stalwart - Go all out TANK!
    Sword & Board with B-Sword & Tower Shield - Two Handed Fighting Feats, Shield Feats, Dodge or CE for the Prestige, PA, Cleave, Great Cleave + Toughness of course!
    Even at Lvl 13 you'll still have Feats left over!

    As a Kensai you won't get anywhere near as much Damage Mitigation BUT it's still possible to Sword & Board up in most quests in this game!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This is really false. Any quest has a chance to be BYOH, even if not stipulated. Most people will take the first five. At least that's how it's been for the last few months.

    As to the OP, choosing Half Elf and taking cleric dilli is a good choice. I've done two fighter lives this way, and, combined with heal amp, it's very effective. You just have to learn how to scroll heal.
    Helf is a paid class. If they haven't bought the packs are they going to pay for this class?

    I think you should at least respect the "BYOH"= "bring your own healing" in the lfm description. I rarely use it but when I do it's more I am looking more for some self sufficiency and half a clue (quests that can be mucked up totally by people doing the wrong thing - I really don't care about 10% death penalties). So asking "may I bring a hireling?" via a tell might be the way to go. Putting up a hireling without asking is a bit rude but a lot of people are fairly relaxed if that is what you need and you ask beforehand as you're taking up a party slot.
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  12. #12
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    Just let some other party member grab aggro then go smack it from the back. Play smart. Or group with your friendly neighborhood healer.

    The game has changed much over the past. Back in the day whan I started to play, we only had clerics, and they healed. There wasnt much else to do at lvl cap 10, they had slay living,and greater command.

    No heal spell, only CSW wands, and cure spells.

    It used to be fun shortmanning von 5 and 6 like that, and it was also challenging.

    now...meh... BYOH for all.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayspam View Post
    Just let some other party member grab aggro then go smack it from the back. Play smart. Or group with your friendly neighborhood healer.

    The game has changed much over the past. Back in the day whan I started to play, we only had clerics, and they healed. There wasnt much else to do at lvl cap 10, they had slay living,and greater command.

    No heal spell, only CSW wands, and cure spells.

    It used to be fun shortmanning von 5 and 6 like that, and it was also challenging.

    now...meh... BYOH for all.
    ^ very VERY good player

    "go smack it from the back" = sneak attack damage = more damage = win!
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  14. #14
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    Get a few friends together, use a guest pass and get your silver flame favor. You will never need to wait for a healer again.
    Vulger Display of Power, Disposable Hero, Farbeyond Driven, VicRattle Head, Typeo Negative, Warpig, Infetious Grooves, Damageplan, Slipknott, GnR, BlkSunshine

  15. #15
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatzhas View Post
    If solo: Bring a healing-capable hireling. The scaling difference if any should be made up for by the availability of the heals and other abilities they bring.

    If in a group: Don't join BYOH groups.
    Fortunately as far as I know BYOH groups are still a minority, and while the forums may belittle those who spend less real-money on the game or pick a less fashionable class, you should be able to find people to quest with.
    As long as you are competent, friendly, and help the team, non-BYOH groups should be happy to have you.

    Note that there is nothing inherently wrong with the BYOH idea. But no matter how good you are, or nice to have you in the team, if you can't heal yourself through that dungeon, you shouldn't join a BYOH group.
    I wont say in your case BYOH is a minority, but its pretty common on the lfm i see. Even if it doesnt say BYOH in the lfm notes, its still considered you be able to be self sufficient if needed.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This is really false. Any quest has a chance to be BYOH, even if not stipulated. Most people will take the first five. At least that's how it's been for the last few months.
    Wow!

    BYOH Absolutely NEEDS to be Stipulated on the LFM!

    If you get into a situation where there's no "Healer" in party and only 1 spot left then by all means check with your group if everyone's OK with "Going as is" {you can always pop a hire}.

    OR Put on LFG "Taking First 5 and done" - People will understand this MAY end up BYOH! {Actually I've always seen these LFMs as being far less confrontational than BYOH!}

    BUT be fair - There's many people out there who DON'T WANT to join BYOH groups!


    The majority of LFMs in DDO with no stipulations are by Newbies - These are highly unlikely to be BYOH and actually probably the complete opposite!
    Those of us who know how to use the LFM should use it properly and STIPULATE!

    P.S. - Elite BB does NOT mean BYOH! Unless it also states BYOH!
    Likewise it does NOT mean ZERG unless it also states ZERG!

    And I know for a fact that Elite BB, ZERG, BYOH fits in the LFM Panel!

  17. #17
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    Dont stop moving, use stun, trip.
    You have no evasion so casters are doing the most dmg to you, the more you move the less they will hit you with spells.
    When fighting mobs circle around them, use cleave, great cleave.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    ^ very VERY good player

    "go smack it from the back" = sneak attack damage = more damage = win!
    He is fighter so no sneak attack dmg for him unless he has some item that will give him that.
    Last edited by Ivan_Milic; 04-06-2013 at 09:07 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This is really false. Any quest has a chance to be BYOH, even if not stipulated. Most people will take the first five. At least that's how it's been for the last few months.
    Maybe maybe not. The fact remains however that you should not join a quest under false pretences.
    If it says BYOH on the lfm, and you can't BYOH, you shouldn't join, any more than a pure fighter should join a "blue bar only" group.
    That doesn't mean that he won't need to self-heal with other groups, just that it isn't polite or sensible to join a group that is excluding you on the lfm.

    If you do join a group not advertised as BYOH, and it does turn into one, your best bet is to point out that you will have trouble. They will either kick you, saving you from a probable bad experience, or they will be willing to work with you and help you out. Do what you can to keep yourself up, let the casters and self-healers take the brunt, and use what you have to help out. Remember that you don't need Improved Trip to be able to trip, and you can physically block doorways to stop mobs getting away from a persistent AoE spell.

    As to the OP, choosing Half Elf and taking cleric dilli is a good choice. I've done two fighter lives this way, and, combined with heal amp, it's very effective. You just have to learn how to scroll heal.
    I'm trying to avoid making assumptions on the amount of money the OP has spent on the game.
    Half-elves are not a base race: you have to buy access to them.
    If he has bought half-elves, all well and good. If he hasn't bought them, he can't generate a half-elf character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I wont say in your case BYOH is a minority, but its pretty common on the lfm i see. Even if it doesnt say BYOH in the lfm notes, its still considered you be able to be self sufficient if needed.
    BYOH in the LFMs is common, but its not the majority yet.
    Being Self-sufficient, or having a healer Hireling available for the group is good practice, but a non-BYOH group should accept that not everyone joining will be able to be completely self-sufficient.
    If they weren't willing to accept that, and wanted to exclude people who couldn't manage complete self-sufficiency, they would have marked the group as BYOH.

  19. #19
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    If all you are seeing are BYOH LFMs for your level, make your own group and have a hire on stand by just in case.

    Just put in the LFM description that you are looking for a divine. Most clerics/fvs do not mind healing, they just do not want to be a babysitter for the entire time they are in the quest. There are some that do like that, but I know many many more that avoid LFMs that state "need healer".

    Also Druids can heal pretty decent in all content and does not take much more than the highest level devotion gear for their level and a few ranks into their enhancements. So when looking for that person to help keep you up in the quest do not hesitate to click druid as well.

    The other thing you can do is splash a level or three of cleric, if you do not have helf, and get access to no umd check wands, a little blue bar for casting the cure light spell. Go up to 3 cleric to get cure moderate and take the empower healing feat, heal amp to boost the benefit from those low level cure spells. The best thing about them is unmetta'd they can be cast from echos which I think you get at level 2 of a caster class.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    tactics are key. damage mitigation is what you want to strive for, soloing or in a group with a healer. playing smart and pulling mobs 1 or 2 at a time helps a lot, but you have to have patience. killing quickly and efficiently helps reduce the amount of damage. heal amp to boost your healing from pots makes a difference. the higher it is, the more hp you regain back. use the quest to YOUR advantage and not the mobs, by using doorways, not letting yourself get surrounded and fighting what you can handle. know the quest and the mobs. know how to deal with mobs and come prepared with potions, gear and proper weapons. if soloing, theres no shame in bringing a hire. I use them all the time, but they are not my crutch. you don't have to have them follow you through the quest. you can summon them whenever you need them because they can save your arse in bad situations and save you pots. unfortunately, in game there is nothing better than CSW pots for non umd if you don't own packs to get SF favor. its possible to still be self sufficient without SF pots, but there will be times when you may need fast healing and a lot of it. tactics will play a bigger role in that case.
    In a thread full of giving up and foaming at the mouth BYOH bashing, the post above was a good start.

    The first step is to understand that to move closer to BYOH, you will have to give up DPS. The choice can be a temporary one and your fighter can operate in either mode... but if I don't put this, the BYOH haters are going to be up in arms that what I'm suggesting lowers DEEEEPPEEEEESSSSSS and could never be acceptable. For some players there are times you want to do-it-by-yourself... I'm going to give you advice on how to do that.

    1. You want to stay at full health or as close as possible. You won't have spike healing, so the best backup is high HP and constant small healing. But where does a fighter get constant small healing....?

    2. Your best source of healing is your weapon.
    Bodyfeeder + vampirism (lesser or normal) is incredibly under-rated. "But lesser vampirism is only one hp per hit!!". Yup, and one more for the double hit, and one more for every mob your cleave/great cleave hits. The 15 bonus hp for bodyfeeder happens a lot when cleaving a crowd. At level 13, you can wield a +1 body feeder of lesser vampirism. Now, this will do way less damage than say.... a lit2 green steel weapon. And if you got the twink and the silver flame pots and all that stuff, be uber. But for us meer mortals, the simple bodyfeeder/vamp weapon is a huge step towards constant healing.

    3. But where would I get a bodyfeeder/lesser vamp weapon?
    There are two named weapons at your level that come with this combination. The bloody cleaver and the staff of shadow. The cleaver is a great weapon, as a falchion it has a big crit range and it is slashing for when you want to go back to your normal weapon. If those two weapons are not a good option, then bodyfeeder and lesser vampirism are low level canith crafting recipies. I think 36 in each school is enough to make a +1 bodyfeeder/lesser vamp weapon. Even if you don't have a crafter, I have seen these shards unbound in the auction house or you could ask a friendly crafter to make some for you.

    4. Ok, so now have a small amount of constant healing... how does that get me through a quest?
    The way you get through a quest with small but constant healing is to try to mitigate damage as described in the post I quoted. But those methods are just a start.
    • Ship buffs, the 30 resists can stop a lot of elemental damage
    • Good saves, don't skimp in this area
    • Spearblock. Archers can gang up on you and that damage adds up fast.
    • Life shield (con-op green steel item if you are an uber twinker), simple life shield on your armor if you do not have access to the high end twink toys.
    • AC. Even if you aren't a stalwart build, throwing on plate alone will cause some opponents to miss. A crafted life shield full plate of spear block gives you three sources of mitigation in one piece of equipment.
    • Other Defensive gear. There are many items that mitigate damage. Cannith challenge bracers give blur. The cloak of frost can freeze enemies you hit, the rock boots can stone opponents. You can use the daily challenge tokens to slowly work your way towards getting these.
    • Tactics. Stun and trip are very valuable. In combat, try to go after the casters first and use these attacks to disable them. If you are facing a single opponent, use these even before spamming your cleave attacks to shut down their damage dealing ability.
    • Terrain. Part of what makes DDO great is that it is not a game of turn on auto attack and stand there. Using columns to block spells/arrows or separate opponents to fight them in smaller groups can turn an difficult encounter into a cake walk.
    • Jousting. I haven't seen this one posted but it can be very effective. With cleave and great cleave, you can perform 3-4 very fast attacks, but then you need about four seconds before you can do it again. Rather than stay and go toe to toe for those four seconds, re-position and possibly also do a kobold-shaman-style-back-jump while quaffing a potion. When the four seconds are up, re-engage with the cleave spam and repeat.
    • Umd/clickies. If you don't have blur on an item, then using the scroll can provide you with 20% concealment.
      Shield or nightshield can put a stop to magic missiles. This is big because you don't get a save or elemental resists against magic missiles. Learn what buffs you can self-apply and what benefits they provide.


    Gear and combat tactics can go a very very long way towards a point where you don't have to heal except in very extraordinary situations.

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