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  1. #1
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Default It's hard to do CitW

    Not because it's difficult, mind you. I just find it tedious to the extreme. It feels like I'm killing everything twice. I was lucky enough to get the weapon I wanted on my third try. But every time after that, I felt as though I was doing a raid for nothing but randomly-generated loot. Not to mention having to listen to Lolth rant like a B-Movie villain.

    Now, Fall of Truth, on the other hand, is so much better. It keeps you on your toes the entire time and requires the entire party to work in concert and communicate in order to win. Not only that, you are guaranteed to get Heroic Commendations, even if you don't get any named loot. It's sad how I can loot six chests in CitW and get NOTHING but randgen.

    Suggestions:

    Mix up the raid a bit. Have Lolth, her legs and her navel only show up at the end, and get rid of the portal keepers.

    Make the raid more like An Offering of Blood, with a constant streams of enemies, gates, obstacles and some traps.

    Make it so that one chest always drops a Heroic Commendation.

  2. #2
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Not because it's difficult, mind you. I just find it tedious to the extreme. It feels like I'm killing everything twice. I was lucky enough to get the weapon I wanted on my third try. But every time after that, I felt as though I was doing a raid for nothing but randomly-generated loot. Not to mention having to listen to Lolth rant like a B-Movie villain.

    Now, Fall of Truth, on the other hand, is so much better. It keeps you on your toes the entire time and requires the entire party to work in concert and communicate in order to win. Not only that, you are guaranteed to get Heroic Commendations, even if you don't get any named loot. It's sad how I can loot six chests in CitW and get NOTHING but randgen.

    Suggestions:

    Mix up the raid a bit. Have Lolth, her legs and her navel only show up at the end, and get rid of the portal keepers.

    Make the raid more like An Offering of Blood, with a constant streams of enemies, gates, obstacles and some traps.

    Make it so that one chest always drops a Heroic Commendation.
    respawn will only traduce in an even worst time sink from that quest... just give us 1 granted commendation on EH and so people would have a reason to run this over than 1 time for favor and to get (eventually) a named item.
    ALL HAIL TO ITS SQUISHY-MAJESTY SIR KNORR, LORD OF OOZES AND MASTER OF SLIME
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386688

  3. #3
    Community Member Drona's Avatar
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    1) Remove the optional ball-sucking venture.
    2) Reduce the number of chests from 6 crappy ones to 1 good one like FOT.
    3) Raid gets done in about 20 mins and we go happy

  4. #4
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    It's actually my favorite raid in the game. Lolth's B movie villain quips are the funniest In any quest. I mean, It's the first quest where I actually like the voice acting. By a mile.

    FoT has the dumbest voice overs ever. Both Truthful and Reaver. Garbage voice overs. And the writing is also garbage.

    At least with Lolth you get a feel of a being that you will not defeat, and she knows it. So she plays with her food.

    FoT... is all Boring, corny dialog. And is a kite fest of all kite fests to end kite fests.

    The Portal Keepers, The Orbs, Running around in a maze of webs, Breasts!!11111 What's not to like?

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drona View Post
    2) Reduce the number of chests from 6 crappy ones to 1 good one like FOT.
    3) Raid gets done in about 20 mins and we go happy
    People run citw for weapons, so 6 chests, yay.
    Pug hard gets done in ~40 minutes maybe.

    Also obligatory : NO to 15 minutes raids, yay for pre u14 hour long elite ToD, VoD, LoB
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  6. #6
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    CITW is the new Tempest Spine. Its more of a 12 person quest rather than a raid.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #7
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    I think the raid is rather boring myself but I think it is good that they offer some variety. If all quests were of similar format you would complain as well, how about that make all raids a difficulty window with a chest as you step in... =p

    I think 15 minute raids aren't a bad idea and a pretty good time for a raid but maybe make it tiered like in WoW i actually prefer their raids the best, the raids differ in mechanics and variety and they can be very challenging. I think this is what they tried to attempt with the ne FOT raid and they rework, I is very WOW like in nature.

    So far I think they're headed in the right direction. They need to increase the difficulty while increasing the quality of loot with the increasing difficulty. I think this would make all range of people from casuals to raiders very happy.

  8. #8
    Community Member CodyGenX's Avatar
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    Personally I love cheesy voiceovers over more professional sounding ones. It reminds me of the days I spent with my friends sitting around ye ole table for hours and sometimes days on end. Our DM making a mess out of voicing his bosses and NPC's. My other friend with the absolute best Jewish sounding gnome pretending she was the prettiest thing in the world whilst having a huge nose and bubblegum pink hair (cursed mirror that caused her to get distracted for hours on end, Usually during a difficult fight). My perfect drow and halfling voices. Good times l, good times.

    On another note I don't enjoy the chests, but its a heck of a lot better than dq2 chest. I may not have all my commendations but I do have my bases.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Not because it's difficult, mind you. I just find it tedious to the extreme. It feels like I'm killing everything twice. I was lucky enough to get the weapon I wanted on my third try. But every time after that, I felt as though I was doing a raid for nothing but randomly-generated loot. Not to mention having to listen to Lolth rant like a B-Movie villain.

    Now, Fall of Truth, on the other hand, is so much better. It keeps you on your toes the entire time and requires the entire party to work in concert and communicate in order to win. Not only that, you are guaranteed to get Heroic Commendations, even if you don't get any named loot. It's sad how I can loot six chests in CitW and get NOTHING but randgen.

    Suggestions:

    Mix up the raid a bit. Have Lolth, her legs and her navel only show up at the end, and get rid of the portal keepers.

    Make the raid more like An Offering of Blood, with a constant streams of enemies, gates, obstacles and some traps.

    Make it so that one chest always drops a Heroic Commendation.
    Fighting Lloth's belly button is the boring part... If they can't rid of it entirely, I would agree it should only happen once instead of twice.

    But Portal keepers are the best part of that raid because they DO require you stay on your toes, and team DOES needs to communicate...

    Overall, I like CiTW.. I think it's a decent raid..

    However, I 100% aggree that commendations need to drop at 100% in one chest... Turbine is KILLING this less than a year-old raid by making commendations fall much faster in FoT than CiTW. Very few PUGs for CiTW anymore.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  10. #10
    Community Member elraido's Avatar
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    I wish the raid was a tad shorter. Like 30 min on EH. That and the animation bug where my guy moves to the left when attacking...it is hard enough finding the spot where my attacks hit loth, having to move back every couple of swings makes it worse.
    Officer - Eternal Wrath
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  11. #11
    Community Member DDOTalk71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Fighting Lloth's belly button is the boring part... If they can't rid of it entirely, I would agree it should only happen once instead of twice.

    But Portal keepers are the best part of that raid because they DO require you stay on your toes, and team DOES needs to communicate...

    Overall, I like CiTW.. I think it's a decent raid..

    However, I 100% aggree that commendations need to drop at 100% in one chest... Turbine is KILLING this less than a year-old raid by making commendations fall much faster in FoT than CiTW. Very few PUGs for CiTW anymore.
    I agree. The belly button fight sequence is lame. I would like to see both gone. If not, I'd drop it from the first part. Have her use her legs and be done. At that point, she thinks we are a nuisance. Makes more sense story-wise.

    The best solution would be to drop the most immobile, boring, sack of HP raid boss since Velah entirely or to have her fight as a stormreaver-ish size avatar that is mobile, fast, has spells(debuffs, cc, dps), massive physical attacks, and unpredictable AI/aggro.

    I also agree on the Comms issue. You should get the same 1d2 comms on EH. The raid is longer than FoT. The reward should at least be the same.
    Asheras - Velania - Ventarya - Renvar - Vallorynn - Officer - Loreseekers and Sentinels Guilds - Khyber

  12. #12
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    People run citw for weapons, so 6 chests, yay.
    Pug hard gets done in ~40 minutes maybe.

    Also obligatory : NO to 15 minutes raids, yay for pre u14 hour long elite ToD, VoD, LoB
    antipode(en) and balizarde, in my 2nd and 3rd run

    increase the drops!! yay!! XD

    quite boring must say, the only option is to erg & ignore mobs (not opts lol) and run,run,run

    is like doing oob at "sneak speed", can be the longest quest ingame lol or not that much XD
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  13. #13
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drona View Post
    1) Remove the optional ball-sucking venture.
    2) Reduce the number of chests from 6 crappy ones to 1 good one like FOT.
    3) Raid gets done in about 20 mins and we go happy
    Uhmmm.. no.

    This is my favorite raid in the game....

    Because it is not some 20 minute cage match.

    It feels epic.

    The place is large, many mobs.

    Doing the optionals adds to the epic journey feel.

    I'm here to play the game, not do easy loot runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    CITW is the new Tempest Spine. Its more of a 12 person quest rather than a raid.
    Except that most people actually enjoy Tempest Spine.
    Ascent, Argonnessen ~ Cleatus Yogurthawker | Isostatic Rebound | Mohorovicic Discontinuity | Angular Unconformity
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  15. #15

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    CitW would be much better if they fixed the ridiculously small hit box for the gigantic goddess.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  16. #16
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Last time I did CitW a guy said over voice chat Lolth has Breast Damage Reduction

  17. #17
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menace13 View Post
    It's actually my favorite raid in the game. Lolth's B movie villain quips are the funniest In any quest. I mean, It's the first quest where I actually like the voice acting. By a mile.

    FoT has the dumbest voice overs ever. Both Truthful and Reaver. Garbage voice overs. And the writing is also garbage.

    At least with Lolth you get a feel of a being that you will not defeat, and she knows it. So she plays with her food.

    FoT... is all Boring, corny dialog. And is a kite fest of all kite fests to end kite fests.

    The Portal Keepers, The Orbs, Running around in a maze of webs, Breasts!!11111 What's not to like?
    I just hate how Lolth talks all of the time. My god, her threats are AWFUL. "I'm a goddess, and you're all going to die!"? Really?

    Personally, I never get that sense of doom, since all she does is throw minions and laser eyebeams at us.

    @GerardIII: Yes, she gets it from her Adamantine Breastplate of Epic Support. Otherwise they'd fall out and all the players would take wisdom, charisma and intelligence damage. That's why we have to attack her navel and not anything higher.

  18. #18
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default CitW as I see it

    Pros:
    • Pretty graphics
    • You can fight a goddess
    • The fight music is some of the better music of DDO (some of DDO's music is truly awful though. Inspired Quarter and Lordsmarch, I'm looking at you)
    • Some relics are rather unique and add a lot of flavor, or even single-handedly put a weapon class on the map (Mornh, particularly)
    • Ana willingly sucks all the white out of two pairs of balls
    • Portal keeper dynamic requires strategy and coordination
    • epic length
    • lots of shiny chests at the end


    Cons:
    • length not even remotely compensated in XP or loot rates
    • Used to be riddled with bugs and I'm not even sure if all of them are fixed (6+ hour instance where double rainbow bugged Lolth and made her attack people after leaving the instance on their AIR SHIPS comes to mind)
    • Missing dwarven axe, khopesh, greatsword, scimitar, kukri, and pick option
    • Only one true caster item that's good for divines but not tailored for them
    • Some relics have very noticeable power advantages over other relics (Balizarde vs. Breach, or Celestia vs. pretty much everything, for example). Tinah is especially offensive to me.
    • Souls returning, priestesses sacrificing, and portal keepers respawning tends to make the trash-focus of the quest abnormally high
    • Stationary, uninteresting boss fight with a poor hit-box mechanic
    • Some mechanics such as Lolth's legs flinging you off the demonweb, babysitting Ana, healing curse, spellwards, and Lolth's eye gaze draining SP feel less punitive than purely infuriating, making the quest feel less epic and more tedious and vexing
    • Goddess is not very threatening and dumb as rocks


    All in all, I think MotU's raid is thoughtfully-crafted and has lots of good material in it. There's also a lot that I'd tweak about it, particularly what people mentioned above concerning drop rates relative to Fall of Truth and its substantial decrease in player population because of that.

    I'm very happy that they made the hand of Lolth less aggressive as that was a major component of why I disliked the raid initially.
    Last edited by SealedInSong; 04-09-2013 at 07:32 PM. Reason: edit1: html flag incorrect; edit2: forgot scimitar and kukri
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  19. #19
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    The problem I have with the raid is that it is extremely tedious for all groups. Most of the fights are non-threatening trash mobs that threaten only the worst groups.

    The second problem I have with the raid is it's design makes it incredibly hard for non-organized groups like PUGs but incredibly easy to any coordinated group.

  20. #20
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    CitW would be much better if they fixed the ridiculously small hit box for the gigantic goddess.
    Yep shes pretty tight for such a gigantic one

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