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  1. #1
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Default It's hard to do CitW

    Not because it's difficult, mind you. I just find it tedious to the extreme. It feels like I'm killing everything twice. I was lucky enough to get the weapon I wanted on my third try. But every time after that, I felt as though I was doing a raid for nothing but randomly-generated loot. Not to mention having to listen to Lolth rant like a B-Movie villain.

    Now, Fall of Truth, on the other hand, is so much better. It keeps you on your toes the entire time and requires the entire party to work in concert and communicate in order to win. Not only that, you are guaranteed to get Heroic Commendations, even if you don't get any named loot. It's sad how I can loot six chests in CitW and get NOTHING but randgen.

    Suggestions:

    Mix up the raid a bit. Have Lolth, her legs and her navel only show up at the end, and get rid of the portal keepers.

    Make the raid more like An Offering of Blood, with a constant streams of enemies, gates, obstacles and some traps.

    Make it so that one chest always drops a Heroic Commendation.

  2. #2
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Not because it's difficult, mind you. I just find it tedious to the extreme. It feels like I'm killing everything twice. I was lucky enough to get the weapon I wanted on my third try. But every time after that, I felt as though I was doing a raid for nothing but randomly-generated loot. Not to mention having to listen to Lolth rant like a B-Movie villain.

    Now, Fall of Truth, on the other hand, is so much better. It keeps you on your toes the entire time and requires the entire party to work in concert and communicate in order to win. Not only that, you are guaranteed to get Heroic Commendations, even if you don't get any named loot. It's sad how I can loot six chests in CitW and get NOTHING but randgen.

    Suggestions:

    Mix up the raid a bit. Have Lolth, her legs and her navel only show up at the end, and get rid of the portal keepers.

    Make the raid more like An Offering of Blood, with a constant streams of enemies, gates, obstacles and some traps.

    Make it so that one chest always drops a Heroic Commendation.
    respawn will only traduce in an even worst time sink from that quest... just give us 1 granted commendation on EH and so people would have a reason to run this over than 1 time for favor and to get (eventually) a named item.
    ALL HAIL TO ITS SQUISHY-MAJESTY SIR KNORR, LORD OF OOZES AND MASTER OF SLIME
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386688

  3. #3
    Community Member Drona's Avatar
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    1) Remove the optional ball-sucking venture.
    2) Reduce the number of chests from 6 crappy ones to 1 good one like FOT.
    3) Raid gets done in about 20 mins and we go happy

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drona View Post
    2) Reduce the number of chests from 6 crappy ones to 1 good one like FOT.
    3) Raid gets done in about 20 mins and we go happy
    People run citw for weapons, so 6 chests, yay.
    Pug hard gets done in ~40 minutes maybe.

    Also obligatory : NO to 15 minutes raids, yay for pre u14 hour long elite ToD, VoD, LoB

    Shahang (fvs caster), Bellezza (assassin), Wipekin (monkcher), Farida (air savant), Nezhat (melee) Ghallanda/Devourer

  5. #5
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    People run citw for weapons, so 6 chests, yay.
    Pug hard gets done in ~40 minutes maybe.

    Also obligatory : NO to 15 minutes raids, yay for pre u14 hour long elite ToD, VoD, LoB
    antipode(en) and balizarde, in my 2nd and 3rd run

    increase the drops!! yay!! XD

    quite boring must say, the only option is to erg & ignore mobs (not opts lol) and run,run,run

    is like doing oob at "sneak speed", can be the longest quest ingame lol or not that much XD
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  6. #6
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drona View Post
    1) Remove the optional ball-sucking venture.
    2) Reduce the number of chests from 6 crappy ones to 1 good one like FOT.
    3) Raid gets done in about 20 mins and we go happy
    Uhmmm.. no.

    This is my favorite raid in the game....

    Because it is not some 20 minute cage match.

    It feels epic.

    The place is large, many mobs.

    Doing the optionals adds to the epic journey feel.

    I'm here to play the game, not do easy loot runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  7. #7
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    It's actually my favorite raid in the game. Lolth's B movie villain quips are the funniest In any quest. I mean, It's the first quest where I actually like the voice acting. By a mile.

    FoT has the dumbest voice overs ever. Both Truthful and Reaver. Garbage voice overs. And the writing is also garbage.

    At least with Lolth you get a feel of a being that you will not defeat, and she knows it. So she plays with her food.

    FoT... is all Boring, corny dialog. And is a kite fest of all kite fests to end kite fests.

    The Portal Keepers, The Orbs, Running around in a maze of webs, Breasts!!11111 What's not to like?

  8. #8
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menace13 View Post
    It's actually my favorite raid in the game. Lolth's B movie villain quips are the funniest In any quest. I mean, It's the first quest where I actually like the voice acting. By a mile.

    FoT has the dumbest voice overs ever. Both Truthful and Reaver. Garbage voice overs. And the writing is also garbage.

    At least with Lolth you get a feel of a being that you will not defeat, and she knows it. So she plays with her food.

    FoT... is all Boring, corny dialog. And is a kite fest of all kite fests to end kite fests.

    The Portal Keepers, The Orbs, Running around in a maze of webs, Breasts!!11111 What's not to like?
    I just hate how Lolth talks all of the time. My god, her threats are AWFUL. "I'm a goddess, and you're all going to die!"? Really?

    Personally, I never get that sense of doom, since all she does is throw minions and laser eyebeams at us.

    @GerardIII: Yes, she gets it from her Adamantine Breastplate of Epic Support. Otherwise they'd fall out and all the players would take wisdom, charisma and intelligence damage. That's why we have to attack her navel and not anything higher.

  9. #9
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menace13 View Post
    It's actually my favorite raid in the game. Lolth's B movie villain quips are the funniest In any quest. I mean, It's the first quest where I actually like the voice acting. By a mile.

    FoT has the dumbest voice overs ever. Both Truthful and Reaver. Garbage voice overs. And the writing is also garbage.

    At least with Lolth you get a feel of a being that you will not defeat, and she knows it. So she plays with her food.

    FoT... is all Boring, corny dialog. And is a kite fest of all kite fests to end kite fests.

    The Portal Keepers, The Orbs, Running around in a maze of webs, Breasts!!11111 What's not to like?
    Her breasts stick out waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to the side - something unnatural! Clearly she is the goddess of spiders!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Her breasts stick out waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to the side - something unnatural! Clearly she is the goddess of spiders!
    I'd still hit dat.

    Last night on my 4th run in a row. Our 2 healers got mana drained. They didn't pot. Just left few party members to linger as stones without even using a scroll. So the barb-I-, and Wizard used a few ress/heal scrolls. Which is fine, but I mentioned that the healers weren't potting.

    The healers got mad and told me to shut up, and later refused to raise me after Lolth's legs blew me off platform too. Which also would have been fine except it was one of our bright clerics that had Anna and kept her in middle of the party so legs would spawn next to everyone. Kid you not, literal, actual keep Ana in middle of everyone swinging. Yes, half the party got thrown off ledge twice. We completed though, the healers were good, pots get expensive. But, one can ask group.
    Last edited by Menace13; 04-06-2013 at 02:36 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    CITW is the new Tempest Spine. Its more of a 12 person quest rather than a raid.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    CITW is the new Tempest Spine. Its more of a 12 person quest rather than a raid.
    Except that most people actually enjoy Tempest Spine.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley_Nicholas View Post
    Except that most people actually enjoy Tempest Spine.
    I would challenge this statement. It could be true, but from my own experience most people think that Tempest Spine is a joke. They usually put up an In Progress LFM once each life to blast through it for easy XP, but think that it is more like a quest that happens to involve 12 players rather than six rather than a real raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Uhmmm.. no.

    This is my favorite raid in the game....
    This boggles my mind, but you can think what you want, until:

    Because it is not some 20 minute cage match.

    It feels epic.

    The place is large, many mobs.

    Doing the optionals adds to the epic journey feel.

    I'm here to play the game, not do easy loot runs.
    Now, at this point it sounds to me like you are describing the Titan pre-raid+raid, not CitW! CitW is a zerg fest, of people all doing their own thing to try and force their way to completion, because it was very poorly designed and laid out.

    I am all for epic, D&D Module type of raids! But that just is ~not~ the feel that I get from CitW. At all.

  14. #14
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    CitW is a zerg fest, of people all doing their own thing to try and force their way to completion, because it was very poorly designed and laid out.
    It's not a zerg-fest for random PUGs... Most groups can't just run past everything and survive orange or red-alert... You have to play a little smarter than that for most groups, and the raid still feels epic for most of us.

    I always find it amusing when some guy from a top-notch guild leads a CiTW PUG, and he doesn't change his tactics AT ALL, and the group gets overwhelmed by red-alert... Then the powergamer rages at everyone, quits the group, and the 11 of us get ourselves rezzed, and finish the raid moving just a LITTLE bit slower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  15. #15
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's not a zerg-fest for random PUGs... Most groups can't just run past everything and survive orange or red-alert... You have to play a little smarter than that for most groups, and the raid still feels epic for most of us.

    I always find it amusing when some guy from a top-notch guild leads a CiTW PUG, and he doesn't change his tactics AT ALL, and the group gets overwhelmed by red-alert... Then the powergamer rages at everyone, quits the group, and the 11 of us get ourselves rezzed, and finish the raid moving just a LITTLE bit slower.
    Someday I'll be able to give you rep again....
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's not a zerg-fest for random PUGs... Most groups can't just run past everything and survive orange or red-alert... You have to play a little smarter than that for most groups, and the raid still feels epic for most of us.

    I always find it amusing when some guy from a top-notch guild leads a CiTW PUG, and he doesn't change his tactics AT ALL, and the group gets overwhelmed by red-alert... Then the powergamer rages at everyone, quits the group, and the 11 of us get ourselves rezzed, and finish the raid moving just a LITTLE bit slower.
    +1

    I've been the +1 in a number of "l33t" guild runs, and they try to zerg it and their own guildies slow them down after getting stuck, thrown off, can't-get-past-crowd-on-web-bridge.

    Honestly, in most of these guilds, these guys are well geared, and it literally takes SECONDS to clear out the extra trash. I really don't understand how they are saving any time at all.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    I would challenge this statement. It could be true, but from my own experience most people think that Tempest Spine is a joke. They usually put up an In Progress LFM once each life to blast through it for easy XP, but think that it is more like a quest that happens to involve 12 players rather than six rather than a real raid.
    There have been a number of threads over the years asking for more raids like Tempest spine and/or an upgrade to make Tempest Spine more relevant at endgame too. Here are a couple I found in a quick search.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=396419
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=200761
    Ascent, Argonnessen ~ Cleatus Yogurthawker | Isostatic Rebound | Mohorovicic Discontinuity | Angular Unconformity
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  18. #18
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    CITW is the new Tempest Spine. Its more of a 12 person quest rather than a raid.
    Great insight Chai! My one thought is, after your point above, "but then why isn't it as fun?"

    I mean, it is kind of fun, but not quite what Tempest was for me. I wonder if it was modeled off of Tempest?

  19. #19
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Great insight Chai! My one thought is, after your point above, "but then why isn't it as fun?"

    I mean, it is kind of fun, but not quite what Tempest was for me. I wonder if it was modeled off of Tempest?
    Fun is subjective. I just see CITW as more of a 12 person quest and less of a raid, similar to Tempest Spine. I do find it fun, just differently so than FOT.

  20. #20
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    I think the raid is rather boring myself but I think it is good that they offer some variety. If all quests were of similar format you would complain as well, how about that make all raids a difficulty window with a chest as you step in... =p

    I think 15 minute raids aren't a bad idea and a pretty good time for a raid but maybe make it tiered like in WoW i actually prefer their raids the best, the raids differ in mechanics and variety and they can be very challenging. I think this is what they tried to attempt with the ne FOT raid and they rework, I is very WOW like in nature.

    So far I think they're headed in the right direction. They need to increase the difficulty while increasing the quality of loot with the increasing difficulty. I think this would make all range of people from casuals to raiders very happy.

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