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  1. #1
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    I am a Half Elf Ranger/Monk, currently level 9, and using a Silver Longbow I acquired on the AH. It's working pretty well once I add the 1-6 Force damage as well for Elven AA, although against non-evil enemies (i.e. animals) its not nearly as impressive.

    As I "look ahead" to what additional gear/path I want to get, its really looking like good bows in the AH are hard to come by. This seems to be because all the best bows are BTC Raid items. This is frustrating since I don't do raids (yet). But it does seem likely, if I am lucky on the rewards, that I will be able to farm Bow of Sinew from the Madness chain and use it from level 14+ (I will probably go and get it with my 16 monk, who is much stronger at this point).

    My questions are: 1) Will the Sinew bow show up as a reward if you run the quest chain on Casual, or does it have to be Normal or higher?, and 2) Will this bow be enough to carry me to level 20 on Heroic Normal content and maybe even beyond? By level 20 I will have slaying arrows, 10K stars (all level ups into Wisdom), Poison Quiver, and + 1 Crit multiplier from Mountain Stance. Will this combo work OK on Epic Normal content, or will the enemies be taking forever to kill at that point?

    Also, should I go Ninja Spy with this character for extra sneak attack damage? I thought I had read that sneak attack damage does not work at range. My other monk is Shintao, so I'd like to go Ninja just to be different, if the sneak attack part does work.

    Lastly, what Epic Destiny would you recommend starting in at 20?

    Right now I like this character, but if I'm going to NEED raid gear at upper levels to be of any use to anyone I group with, then I might as well stop now when I haven't invested so much time yet.

    Thanks again for your advice.

  2. #2
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Sneak attacks work at range. Ninja spy is great because of shadow fade.

    You can make it work without raid bows but pretty much all the best bows come from raids. A recent non raid bow is the tortured livewood bow and look what a stinker it is.

    Sinew will work for a while and then roadwatch is also ok at the epic levels.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    My questions are: 1) Will the Sinew bow show up as a reward if you run the quest chain on Casual, or does it have to be Normal or higher?, and 2) Will this bow be enough to carry me to level 20 on Heroic Normal content and maybe even beyond? By level 20 I will have slaying arrows, 10K stars (all level ups into Wisdom), Poison Quiver, and + 1 Crit multiplier from Mountain Stance. Will this combo work OK on Epic Normal content, or will the enemies be taking forever to kill at that point?
    It can show up on the end rewards list but there is no guarantee. The difficulty that you ran the quests on has absolutely no impact on the end of chain rewards.

    Also, should I go Ninja Spy with this character for extra sneak attack damage? I thought I had read that sneak attack damage does not work at range. My other monk is Shintao, so I'd like to go Ninja just to be different, if the sneak attack part does work.
    Sneak Attack works if you are within the range that Point Blank Shot is effective at. Further away it will not. A pretty personal opinion on if Ninja Spy's SA is worth all those AP. I would say that there are better things to spend them on, but I could see why someone would disagree with that.

    Lastly, what Epic Destiny would you recommend starting in at 20?
    Fury of the Wild. A lot of it's abilities won't really help you all that much. But once you hit the top teir ability you will be pretty amazing!

    Right now I like this character, but if I'm going to NEED raid gear at upper levels to be of any use to anyone I group with, then I might as well stop now when I haven't invested so much time yet.
    You really do not ~need~ raid gear to do anything in DDO. Your weapon choices will not be quite as good as some of the raid weapons. But there is a lot of room to be less-than-optimal and still not be a drag on the party. This often does require some knowledge and skill, though. Also, a good deal of the best-in-slot gear now comes from standard quests. I am rather curious as to why you can not run raids, though.

  4. #4
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Pretty sure all the items show up on the end reward of the third completion of the harbinger chain. All the ones which are end rewards, that is. The bow of sinew is one such. That being said, i'm not sure the bow of sinew is a lot better than the new silver longbow. Only if you don't have seeker anywhere else, and against mobs that don't take holy damage. Depends i guess on how high your base damage is since that is what will benefit from the extra multiplier on 19-20.

    At the level you are now you might want to start looking for bows with effects like disruption and banishing. Those add quite a bit to your bow dps against appropriate mobs. Paralyzing bows if you can find one work really well at those levels too.

  5. #5
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    Ya... zen archery can overcome AA ranger dps fo'sho... :O

    Shoulda gone pure....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    I am a Half Elf Ranger/Monk, currently level 9, and using a Silver Longbow I acquired on the AH. It's working pretty well once I add the 1-6 Force damage as well for Elven AA, although against non-evil enemies (i.e. animals) its not nearly as impressive.

    As I "look ahead" to what additional gear/path I want to get, its really looking like good bows in the AH are hard to come by. This seems to be because all the best bows are BTC Raid items. This is frustrating since I don't do raids (yet). But it does seem likely, if I am lucky on the rewards, that I will be able to farm Bow of Sinew from the Madness chain and use it from level 14+ (I will probably go and get it with my 16 monk, who is much stronger at this point).

    My questions are: 1) Will the Sinew bow show up as a reward if you run the quest chain on Casual, or does it have to be Normal or higher?, and 2) Will this bow be enough to carry me to level 20 on Heroic Normal content and maybe even beyond? By level 20 I will have slaying arrows, 10K stars (all level ups into Wisdom), Poison Quiver, and + 1 Crit multiplier from Mountain Stance. Will this combo work OK on Epic Normal content, or will the enemies be taking forever to kill at that point?

    Also, should I go Ninja Spy with this character for extra sneak attack damage? I thought I had read that sneak attack damage does not work at range. My other monk is Shintao, so I'd like to go Ninja just to be different, if the sneak attack part does work.

    Lastly, what Epic Destiny would you recommend starting in at 20?

    Right now I like this character, but if I'm going to NEED raid gear at upper levels to be of any use to anyone I group with, then I might as well stop now when I haven't invested so much time yet.

    Thanks again for your advice.
    Bow of Sinews is good enough till lvl 20. Not sure if you can get it on casual.
    Ninja Spy is great for a monk archer especially due to Shadow Fade (25% incorporeality for 1 minute for ki).

    You'd want Pinion but depending on whether you try to do EE quests, you won't necessarily need Pinion.

    The two main destinies are Shiradi (better CC) and Fury of the Wild (better DPS).
    If you want to go Fury, check out this build:
    https://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=405243

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Silver Longbow and Longbow of Earth should cover most fights from lvls 8 on until you get Bow of Sinew. You've outleveled it a bit, but you might want Greatbow of the Scrag from 3BC (higher base dmg and blunt is good for skeletons & clay golems); and Shatterbow is good for all constructs except clay golems (who have DR Blunt+Adamantine). Don't forget to farm up your House D favor so you can stock up on Silver etc. arrows.

    For epic levels, what you really want is Pinion; but in the interim, epic Earth Longbow, Silver Flame, and/or Thornlord should suffice.

    Ranged sneak atks require you to be within 15 meters of your target (as well as the usual reqs for SAs), but they work fine. Ninja Spy II would add 3d6 SA; HE rog dilly would add another 3D6 SA.

  8. #8
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    Keep your eyes open for lootgen bows too as there are some nice combos out there - desert sand is one of my favourite prefixes, the slicing winds portion has a decent proc rate & damage & if you can pair it with a multi-effect suffix too, even better (i recently found a desert sand of mauling, love it).

    If you're able, there's also the classic greensteels - lit2 & 3xpos are very solid performers.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  9. #9
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    How tough have you found normal-difficulty content thus far? It gets a little bit harder when you get up to 20 and beyond, but not much, relative to your abilities.

    The Bow of Sinew should work fine for you until you can get something stronger. I think there are some options around that aren't too hard to come by. You definitely want to be carrying bows for the creatures that Sinew isn't very good against (anything with high Fortification, like undead, elementals, and constructs).

    I get the impression that you run with groups a lot, and do a fair job of letting someone else get aggro. If this is the case, then I would absolutely recommend picking up Ninja Spy. The extra sneak attack damage is well-worth the enhancement investment. This is a little less true if you are only taking 6 monk levels, but if you're going to 12, it's definitely true. Also, having Shadow Fade as an emergency defensive mechanic, and a Ki generator between fights/during buffing, can be useful.

    Expanding on the above, I don't know what build you're going with, but I'd strong recommend 12 monk/6 ranger/2 whatever to a version with more than 6 ranger levels. It's stronger.

    As for destinies, I'd recommend starting in Grandmaster of Flowers. It won't be fantastic for you, but getting the passive Ki gen from Enlightenment as soon as possible will really aid you in keeping up Ten Thousand Stars and even having a little extra Ki around sometimes for Shadow Fade (and Abundant Step if you have the monk levels). I would go up to level 3 in GMoF, pop over to Dreadnaught to 4, and then get into Shiradi Champion. I would recommend taking Shiradi to its cap, and then giving Fury of the Wild a try, and deciding between the two of those which you'd prefer to stay in. The levels you pick up on the way will allow you to twist in Enlightenment basically from the get-go, and then allow you to pick up another twist along the way. Dreadnaught will do almost nothing for you, but I personally prefer having 10K Stars active more often and then staying in Shiradi for a while to getting out of Shiradi to go pick up Enlightenment sometime later.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post


    Ya... zen archery can overcome AA ranger dps fo'sho... :O

    Shoulda gone pure....
    This is bad advice. 12 monk + 6 ranger is way more powerful than a pure ranger, both offensively and defensively. It isn't even close. Listen to Sephiroth instead.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Bart_D's Avatar
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    I'm playing around with a monkcher too (fun!) and must admit i didn't do much archery until i had both 10k stars and manyshot. Until then it was simply better to run up and attack with handwraps unless manyshot was off timer (at level 9 i was Art1/Monk2/Ranger6). So i would not worry too much about bows for a couple more levels.

    In a few levels, you'll be able to use bows with banishing/disrupting/smiting which help a lot against those monsters. A paralysing bow is not very glamorous but can be very effective. Lootgen bows can be pretty good dps; just before Risia festival i found one with lacerating and fire burst I think those 5 bows were almost all i used to level 20 where i made an Elemental Longbow of Earth. I forgot one: Bow of the Silver Flame from harbor chain; a good disruptor might be better but it's nice to have when you're in Shroud and forgot to restock silver arrows

  12. #12
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Expanding on the above, I don't know what build you're going with, but I'd strong recommend 12 monk/6 ranger/2 whatever to a version with more than 6 ranger levels. It's stronger.
    OP mentioned +1 crit multiplier from earth stance, and that comes with earth 3 so it'll have to be the 12monk version for the 2 leftover levels 8 ranger will give a couple of level 2 spells (including CLW) meaning they could qualify for empower healing as a handy way of boosting rejuvenation cocoon (i twist this on every character i have whenever possible, its great) but that might leave other feats a little tight, but the most common option iirc is usually 2 fighter for bonus feats & a little extra toughness.

    I concur with ninja spy, the extra damage & concealment is nice.. also you'll be centered (and have imp crits) using shortswords in those times you need to melee which adds a little extra flexibility (and if you're primarily archer you can ditch the stuff for touch of death so have extra APs to play with). My own monkcher uses dual star of day (the cleric comm things) for those rare melee occasions & they're solid performers, pre-20th there are some nice lootgen options & envenomed blades were rather useful too.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  13. #13
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    I just got to 10 last night. 6 Ranger, 2 Fighter, 2 Monk. Next 10 levels will be monk. I will go the Ninja Spy, but I think I need to have the Dodge feat for that to happen, so I'll need to get that somewhere along the way (might have picked it up eventually anyway, but this will require it sooner).

    Yes, I do a lot of 2 and 3 manning with two RL friends, so maybe the sneak attack will work well if I let them take aggro. My only hesitation doing so is that I could have been shooting the enemy as it ran to us instead of waiting for someone to melee it. I guess the sneak attack part doesn't work in solo unless you sneak around and get close before striking. But I am looking forward to shadow fade.

    I was assuming that I would be using handwraps when not shooting, especially because I took Stunning Fist. I never even considered short swords...

    One note: I took Zen Archery at 10 so I could be "centered" all the time, but I was surprised to find out that only melee weapons generate ki. That's frustrating. I was hoping that all my bow shots would start filling my ki bar. Oh well

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    One note: I took Zen Archery at 10 so I could be "centered" all the time, but I was surprised to find out that only melee weapons generate ki. That's frustrating. I was hoping that all my bow shots would start filling my ki bar. Oh well
    Yup.
    That is the most frustrating part about playing a monkcher, lack of ki generation from bows which are ki weapons with Zen Archery. Wish they'd fix that personally.

    However, you can generate 20 ki per minute passively using the combination of the tier two Ocean stance (at lvl 12 monk) as well as a twist of Enlightenment from GMoF.
    20 ki per minute just happens to be the exact amount you need to keep using 10k stars without every going melee. The downside is, as soon as you use abundant step or shadow fade, you may start to fall behind on passive ki generation to keep up 10k stars.

    Other than that, this build is a lot of fun to play precisely because it's so different from everything else out there.

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    I just got to 10 last night. 6 Ranger, 2 Fighter, 2 Monk. Next 10 levels will be monk. I will go the Ninja Spy, but I think I need to have the Dodge feat for that to happen, so I'll need to get that somewhere along the way (might have picked it up eventually anyway, but this will require it sooner).
    The feats planned on my WIS-based monk 12 / rgr 6 / ftr 2 monkcher (7 base + 2 ftr + 3 monk + 2 epic = 14 total), roughly in order: the 3 AA pre-reqs (PBS/WF:R/MT), Toughness(m), Zen Archery(m), Stunning Fist, IC:Ranged(f), GTWF, IPS(f), Dodge(m) (Ninja pre-req), Precision, IC:Blunt, Imp Martial Arts, and Vorpal Strikes or Combat Archery (depending on whether the latter is ever fixed ). The "(m)" & "(f)" indicates monk & ftr bonus feats, respectively. I think the leveling order I used was: rgr 1-2, monk 1-2, rgr 3-6, ftr 1, monk 3-4, ftr 2, monk 5-12.
    I guess the sneak attack part doesn't work in solo unless you sneak around and get close before striking. But I am looking forward to shadow fade.
    Stunning Fist also makes targets vulnerable to SA, tho ofc in that case you'd probably just keep punching them.
    I was assuming that I would be using handwraps when not shooting, especially because I took Stunning Fist. I never even considered short swords...
    If you went WIS-based, I would stick with wraps; lets you use Stunning Fist & ToD.
    One note: I took Zen Archery at 10 so I could be "centered" all the time, but I was surprised to find out that only melee weapons generate ki. That's frustrating. I was hoping that all my bow shots would start filling my ki bar.
    Earth Stance procs ki on being hit; and Ocean Stance III & IV give passive ki generation. In epics you can pick up Enlightenment from GMoF for passive ki as well.

    But yeah, until then you can expect to need to melee occasionally to build ki while MS & 10K are on cooldown. I'm not a big fan of always-ranged monkchers anyway; if you built it right, you've got ToD and Stunning Fist as well as AA, so why wouldn't you take advantage of both?

  16. #16
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Earth Stance procs ki on being hit; and Ocean Stance III & IV give passive ki generation. In epics you can pick up Enlightenment from GMoF for passive ki as well.
    Clarification. Say you do have Earth IV and Ocean IV. If you are in Ocean stance, do you still get the +1 (well +2 as Earth IV) on 19-20 criticals? My understanding was that you had to be in that stance to get them.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    But yeah, until then you can expect to need to melee occasionally to build ki while MS & 10K are on cooldown. I'm not a big fan of always-ranged monkchers anyway; if you built it right, you've got ToD and Stunning Fist as well as AA, so why wouldn't you take advantage of both?
    In my experience, archery sucks in heroics. Lit2s bow, improved crit, really twinked, max wisdom+ str at level, and I was still running in Marilith chain and cleaving two hander.
    3 arrow manyshot is so so with appropriate bow against bosses. Monkcher is fantastic past 20 if you have fury 5 waiting for you but even Symerith melees most the time in his videos.
    Mobs would die from few shots in hard or normal, but in heroic elite, it just sucks.
    Stunning Fist also makes targets vulnerable to SA, tho ofc in that case you'd probably just keep punching them
    Pin ( helpless ) and improved deception works for ranged too.
    Clarification. Say you do have Earth IV and Ocean IV. If you are in Ocean stance, do you still get the +1 (well +2 as Earth IV) on 19-20 criticals? My understanding was that you had to be in that stance to get them.
    Well you can have only 1 stance active. I think having 2 tier 3 stances is somehow expensive, I am going back and forth every few days on my monkcher .
    1 crit multi, 12 prr, some hp and ac, versus saves, dodge, wisdom bracket or two and passive ki ( so freeing up twist slot ). Can't decide yet
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  18. #18
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Yeah, Fuzzy, I had read the bit about Earth III's crit multiplier, but it hadn't registered when I was talking about the class levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    I just got to 10 last night. 6 Ranger, 2 Fighter, 2 Monk. Next 10 levels will be monk. I will go the Ninja Spy, but I think I need to have the Dodge feat for that to happen, so I'll need to get that somewhere along the way (might have picked it up eventually anyway, but this will require it sooner).
    I recommend taking Dodge as your level 6 monk feat. You can't take Ninja Spy before then anyway, and Dodge is one of the few bonus feats you're going to want to take with your monk levels.

    It would be helpful if you posted your build plan, such as which feats you plan on picking up.
    Yes, I do a lot of 2 and 3 manning with two RL friends, so maybe the sneak attack will work well if I let them take aggro. My only hesitation doing so is that I could have been shooting the enemy as it ran to us instead of waiting for someone to melee it. I guess the sneak attack part doesn't work in solo unless you sneak around and get close before striking.
    Well, for some enemies, especially on Normal, it's definitely possible to kill them before they reach you if you start shooting them when they are still far away. The sneak attack obviously won't help with those, but it will help with anything that's too tough to go down in a couple of hits, which can be trash with a lot of HP or bosses. For those fights, the sneak attack will make a noticeable difference, adding about 10 damage on average per shot as long as you don't have aggro and are close enough. You should be able to tell when you are in point blank range by your first number damage gaining a different icon and generally being much larger than when you aren't in close range, so you can learn how far away you can remain while still getting sneak attacks by paying attention to this.
    But I am looking forward to shadow fade.
    Just keep in mind that you won't be able to use this very often, since you won't have a lot of ki to be running 10K Stars, let alone the other bells and whistles that come with monk. That isn't to say you will never use this, just don't expect to be running around with this up frequently.
    I was assuming that I would be using handwraps when not shooting, especially because I took Stunning Fist. I never even considered short swords...
    This is a decent idea. It will help keep your Ki high, and will add a little more to your groups than shooting when you're on timer with both Manyshot and 10K Stars. I would use handwraps over shortswords. Whether you pick up Touch of Death is going to depend on whether you can fit all the AP for it.
    One note: I took Zen Archery at 10 so I could be "centered" all the time, but I was surprised to find out that only melee weapons generate ki. That's frustrating. I was hoping that all my bow shots would start filling my ki bar. Oh well
    Yeah, that sucks. I keep hoping that the devs will do something about this, but if you hold your breath, you're going to look like the emoticon you stuck at the end of your post.

    Wading into melee periodically will help mitigate this, especially if you swap to, or are wearing, a Ki On-Hit item. I recommend picking up Ocean III if you are finding that you are still short on ki most of the time, until you get Enlightenment at least. I don't think I'd keep it after that, since 5 AP is rather expensive, but if you have nothing else you want desperately, you can hang onto it. In any case, I'd swap to Ocean stance when buffing, shrining, waiting around, or when you know you won't have a fight soon. If you also enter sneak mode, you'll be gaining 2 Ki every 6 seconds I believe, which, again, will help a lot. If you also have Enlightenment, you'll be up to 3 Ki/6 seconds, or 30 Ki/minute on top of whatever you're getting from melee. That should keep 10K Stars going whenever it is off cooldown and net you enough extra to use Shadow Fade or Abundant Step occasionally. Swap to Earth III when it's time to shoot stuff, or if you're getting pummeled (gain Ki faster if you're getting hit regularly, not to mention being more survivable).

    I also recommend making sure to have as big a Inner Focus item as you can get for your level as a swap item (or as a permanent slot): put it on before entering a quest or shrining to start with more Ki.

    You should poke around a bit on the forums. I'm not sure what the consensus is right now regarding Water and Earth stands in terms of DPS when comparing 10K Stars and +1 crit multiplier. I think the latter may be better at all times, but I could be mistaken.
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  19. #19
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Also, one piece of equipment that is worth acquiring is the Frozen Tunic. The Freezing proc works on ranged attacks, and can help you by adding some crowd control to your ranged attacks, which is very valuable, especially when you're firing multiple arrows and hitting multiple enemies a shot with Manyshot/10K Stars and Improved Precise Shot. It also comes with +1 Ki On-Hit, so it will help you with Ki gen when you swap to melee.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

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    If you can find it, a 10-12th level paralyzing of pure good
    with an icy ritual for low levels is pretty nice.

    Pew pew is fun. Please also remember you are on a decently
    high melee DPS platform and play accordingly.

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