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  1. #1
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    Default More Monk Archer questions

    I am a Half Elf Ranger/Monk, currently level 9, and using a Silver Longbow I acquired on the AH. It's working pretty well once I add the 1-6 Force damage as well for Elven AA, although against non-evil enemies (i.e. animals) its not nearly as impressive.

    As I "look ahead" to what additional gear/path I want to get, its really looking like good bows in the AH are hard to come by. This seems to be because all the best bows are BTC Raid items. This is frustrating since I don't do raids (yet). But it does seem likely, if I am lucky on the rewards, that I will be able to farm Bow of Sinew from the Madness chain and use it from level 14+ (I will probably go and get it with my 16 monk, who is much stronger at this point).

    My questions are: 1) Will the Sinew bow show up as a reward if you run the quest chain on Casual, or does it have to be Normal or higher?, and 2) Will this bow be enough to carry me to level 20 on Heroic Normal content and maybe even beyond? By level 20 I will have slaying arrows, 10K stars (all level ups into Wisdom), Poison Quiver, and + 1 Crit multiplier from Mountain Stance. Will this combo work OK on Epic Normal content, or will the enemies be taking forever to kill at that point?

    Also, should I go Ninja Spy with this character for extra sneak attack damage? I thought I had read that sneak attack damage does not work at range. My other monk is Shintao, so I'd like to go Ninja just to be different, if the sneak attack part does work.

    Lastly, what Epic Destiny would you recommend starting in at 20?

    Right now I like this character, but if I'm going to NEED raid gear at upper levels to be of any use to anyone I group with, then I might as well stop now when I haven't invested so much time yet.

    Thanks again for your advice.

  2. #2
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Sneak attacks work at range. Ninja spy is great because of shadow fade.

    You can make it work without raid bows but pretty much all the best bows come from raids. A recent non raid bow is the tortured livewood bow and look what a stinker it is.

    Sinew will work for a while and then roadwatch is also ok at the epic levels.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    My questions are: 1) Will the Sinew bow show up as a reward if you run the quest chain on Casual, or does it have to be Normal or higher?, and 2) Will this bow be enough to carry me to level 20 on Heroic Normal content and maybe even beyond? By level 20 I will have slaying arrows, 10K stars (all level ups into Wisdom), Poison Quiver, and + 1 Crit multiplier from Mountain Stance. Will this combo work OK on Epic Normal content, or will the enemies be taking forever to kill at that point?
    It can show up on the end rewards list but there is no guarantee. The difficulty that you ran the quests on has absolutely no impact on the end of chain rewards.

    Also, should I go Ninja Spy with this character for extra sneak attack damage? I thought I had read that sneak attack damage does not work at range. My other monk is Shintao, so I'd like to go Ninja just to be different, if the sneak attack part does work.
    Sneak Attack works if you are within the range that Point Blank Shot is effective at. Further away it will not. A pretty personal opinion on if Ninja Spy's SA is worth all those AP. I would say that there are better things to spend them on, but I could see why someone would disagree with that.

    Lastly, what Epic Destiny would you recommend starting in at 20?
    Fury of the Wild. A lot of it's abilities won't really help you all that much. But once you hit the top teir ability you will be pretty amazing!

    Right now I like this character, but if I'm going to NEED raid gear at upper levels to be of any use to anyone I group with, then I might as well stop now when I haven't invested so much time yet.
    You really do not ~need~ raid gear to do anything in DDO. Your weapon choices will not be quite as good as some of the raid weapons. But there is a lot of room to be less-than-optimal and still not be a drag on the party. This often does require some knowledge and skill, though. Also, a good deal of the best-in-slot gear now comes from standard quests. I am rather curious as to why you can not run raids, though.

  4. #4
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Pretty sure all the items show up on the end reward of the third completion of the harbinger chain. All the ones which are end rewards, that is. The bow of sinew is one such. That being said, i'm not sure the bow of sinew is a lot better than the new silver longbow. Only if you don't have seeker anywhere else, and against mobs that don't take holy damage. Depends i guess on how high your base damage is since that is what will benefit from the extra multiplier on 19-20.

    At the level you are now you might want to start looking for bows with effects like disruption and banishing. Those add quite a bit to your bow dps against appropriate mobs. Paralyzing bows if you can find one work really well at those levels too.

  5. #5
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    Ya... zen archery can overcome AA ranger dps fo'sho... :O

    Shoulda gone pure....

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post


    Ya... zen archery can overcome AA ranger dps fo'sho... :O

    Shoulda gone pure....
    This is bad advice. 12 monk + 6 ranger is way more powerful than a pure ranger, both offensively and defensively. It isn't even close. Listen to Sephiroth instead.
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  7. #7
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    Ya... zen archery can overcome AA ranger dps fo'sho... :O

    Shoulda gone pure....
    Pure ranger is really really stupid if you want to be viable ranged DPS.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default Planning ahead...

    Looking forward to Mokune's 14th life, (on life 12 currently 2Rogue/1Ranger/4arti planned 2Rogue/7Arti/11Ranger for PL)

    So far I am planning on 9 Monk Ninja Spy 1/11 Ranger Helf Cleric Dille AA.

    3 Monk Feats + 7 Heroic and 2 Epic Feats = 13 Feats

    Dodge
    Toughness
    Stunning Fist
    PBS
    WF: Ranged
    PL Sorc or Mental Toughness
    IC: Ranged
    IC: Blunt
    PA
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    OC
    Lightning Reflexes

    with PLENTY of room to change if needed

    Strength/Wis with level ups in Wis probably, at least 14 Con (if not more) at least 11 Dex (I ate a +3 Tome a while back but don't want to wait to level 11 for the +3 to kick in) rest in Int/Cha to balance out neg mods and get some skill points for Concentration/Balance/UMD/Jump and w/e

    11 Ranger gives all 3 TWF, PS, IPS, Diehard (lol), Manyshot, Bow Strength, Rapid Shot so Dex can be *kinda* dumped but still need a 13 Dex for PBS.

    9 Monk gives Shadowfade, Improved Evasion, Fist of Death, Ki regen sneaking (iirc)

    12 Monk and w/e else is strong but too Multiple Ability Dependant and I like lots of Feats
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature". Mokune (Guild Leader of Pandora's Box on Khyber), Iquitz, Returning, Thaumat, Ketzerisch, Xhiron, Koanoak et al...

  9. #9
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default Doh! Math is hard! (and remembering Zen Archery ftm)

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    Looking forward to Mokune's 14th life, (on life 12 currently 2Rogue/1Ranger/4arti planned 2Rogue/7Arti/11Ranger for PL)

    So far I am planning on 9 Monk Ninja Spy 1/11 Ranger Helf Cleric Dille AA.

    3 Monk Feats + 7 Heroic and 2 Epic Feats = 12 Feats

    Dodge
    Toughness
    Stunning Fist
    PBS
    WF: Ranged
    PL Sorc or Mental Toughness
    IC: Ranged
    IC: Blunt
    PA
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    Zen Archery

    with PLENTY of room to change if needed

    Strength/Wis with level ups in Wis probably, at least 14 Con (if not more) at least 11 Dex (I ate a +3 Tome a while back but don't want to wait to level 11 for the +3 to kick in) rest in Int/Cha to balance out neg mods and get some skill points for Concentration/Balance/UMD/Jump and w/e

    11 Ranger gives all 3 TWF, PS, IPS, Diehard (lol), Manyshot, Bow Strength, Rapid Shot so Dex can be *kinda* dumped but still need a 13 Dex for PBS.

    9 Monk gives Shadowfade, Improved Evasion, Fist of Death, Ki regen sneaking (iirc)

    12 Monk and w/e else is strong but too Multiple Ability Dependant and I like lots of Feats
    Fixed it because my errors bothered me LOL
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature". Mokune (Guild Leader of Pandora's Box on Khyber), Iquitz, Returning, Thaumat, Ketzerisch, Xhiron, Koanoak et al...

  10. #10
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    Pure ranger is really really stupid if you want to be viable DPS.
    Fixed that for ya.
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  11. #11
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Fixed that for ya.
    *sigh* and still wrong. If the ranger went tempest, how is that lacking DPS? It won't be top tier, but won't be lacking.

    It is combat style, not class.

  12. #12
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    *sigh* and still wrong. If the ranger went tempest, how is that lacking DPS? It won't be top tier, but won't be lacking.

    It is combat style, not class.
    From what I've read, Tempest DPS is behind barbarian, fighter, monk, and rogue, and may be behind that of artificer, and druid (maybe). It's behind that of a sorcerer, and maybe behind that of an Archmage with Magic Missiles and Shiradi. Unless I'm wrong, that would kind of define lacking, wouldn't it? Certainly in the same sense that you are describing a pure ranger archer's lacking DPS. No?
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    *sigh* and still wrong. If the ranger went tempest, how is that lacking DPS? It won't be top tier, but won't be lacking.

    It is combat style, not class.
    *blink* So a pure Sorcerer using TWF would be doing good single melee DPS, because they are using a combat style that is good at it?

    Saying that your combat style is important, not your class, ignores the fact that every class gives quite a few unique benefits. For example, Kensi Fighter's get quite a lot of damage bonuses. Tempest Rangers get a few more offhand swings, evasion, access to some useful spells, etc. Neither of which let them be competitive with real DPS classes when it comes to DPS.

    Which is not anything bashing Rangers. I am loving my Tempest ranger right now! TWF w/ evasion and self healing, and of course Furyshot, is very good for my play style. But I am not going to pretend that I deal good melee damage. OK, but far from good.

  14. #14
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    Someone asked for my "build plan". I'm still new and not very good at this, so please be gentle if I messed up real bad.

    Half Elf Cleric Dill, 32 point builds, Started at Veteran 7
    14 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON, 16 WIS
    1 - Ranger - Toughness (just because I like it so much)
    2 - Ranger
    3 - Ranger - Point Blank Shot
    4 - Ranger
    5 - Ranger
    6 - Ranger - Mental Toughness (I'll never use it, but I needed it for Elven Arcane Archer at 8)
    7 - Fighter - Weapon Focus Ranged (Also required for AA)
    8 - Fighter - Improved Critical Ranged
    9 - Monk - Stunning Fist (Monk), Improved Critical Bludgeon (L9 feat)
    10 - Monk - Zen Archery (so I could stay centered with bow in hand) * THIS IS WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW *
    11 - Monk (I'll probably bank this level)
    12 - Monk - Either Improved Precise Shot or Greater 2 Weapon Fighting - Not sure which
    13 - Monk (probably banked)
    14 - Monk - Dodge (Last Monk Bonus Feat, equired for Ninja Spy), This will be the level when I can finally use 10k stars as well), I also plan to have Bow of Sinew at this point
    15 - Monk - Whichever one of GTWF or IPS that I did not take at 12, Also if I stay with Cleric Dill I am 100% with Raise here and 95% on Heal Scrolls, I also get Wholeness of Body here (FINALLY)
    16 - Monk
    17 - Monk
    18 - Monk - ? - Maybe Power Attack? Not sure here.
    19 - Monk
    20 - Monk (at this point I get slaying arrows from AA). Here I get Ninja Spy 2 and Greater Mountain Stance for + 1 crit multiplier.

    All level-ups into WIS (boosts my AC and Will save, and powers Stunning Fist and 10K stars). By level 20, after all gear, enhancements, and buffs, I should be at 32-34 WIS.

    Something I am thinking about: Doing an LR for Rogue Dill instead of Cleric, for 3d6 extra sneak attack damage (making it 6d6 at level 20 with Ninja Spy 2). But this would leave me extremely vulnerable during combat, relying on friends or a hireling for heals.

    Advice?
    Last edited by stefferweffer; 04-05-2013 at 09:29 AM.

  15. #15
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Advice?
    Something I am thinking about: Doing an LR for Rogue Dill instead of Cleric, for 3d6 extra sneak attack damage (making it 6d6 at level 20 with Ninja Spy 2). But this would leave me extremely vulnerable during combat, relying on friends or a hireling for heals.
    There are certainly big advantages to each of them. You might want to take a look at the Epic Destinies before you get to level twenty so that you can plan out a route for yourself. It is possible to splash in some self healing that way, reducing your dependance on Cleric Dili and outside sources.
    Also, you only need a feat swap to change your Dili feat, not a full LR. If you haven't used it yet this life, you can get a free one by doing Lockina's quest in the Marketplace.

    18 - Monk - ? - Maybe Power Attack? Not sure here.
    Power Attack is certainly a nice bonus to your damage when you are using unarmed, but you do not have enough feats left to take full advantage of PA, Cleave, and Great Cleave in order to get Overwhelming Critical. Nor do I think that you will have enough STR for it, even with tomes.
    Have you considered Precision instead? It remains active when you swap to a bow as well, which PA will not. And especially when combined with the Ninja Spy, Rogue Dili, and items it will allow you to deliver your full damage more reliably.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Something I am thinking about: Doing an LR for Rogue Dill instead of Cleric
    You do not need to do an LR to swap HE dilly feat as long as your base stat was high enuogh @ lvl 1. Just talk to Fred.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
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  17. #17
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    Precision is a good one I had not thought of, and as you suggest I like that it works for both melee and ranged. Thanks for that suggestion.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    I am a Half Elf Ranger/Monk, currently level 9, and using a Silver Longbow I acquired on the AH. It's working pretty well once I add the 1-6 Force damage as well for Elven AA, although against non-evil enemies (i.e. animals) its not nearly as impressive.

    As I "look ahead" to what additional gear/path I want to get, its really looking like good bows in the AH are hard to come by. This seems to be because all the best bows are BTC Raid items. This is frustrating since I don't do raids (yet). But it does seem likely, if I am lucky on the rewards, that I will be able to farm Bow of Sinew from the Madness chain and use it from level 14+ (I will probably go and get it with my 16 monk, who is much stronger at this point).

    My questions are: 1) Will the Sinew bow show up as a reward if you run the quest chain on Casual, or does it have to be Normal or higher?, and 2) Will this bow be enough to carry me to level 20 on Heroic Normal content and maybe even beyond? By level 20 I will have slaying arrows, 10K stars (all level ups into Wisdom), Poison Quiver, and + 1 Crit multiplier from Mountain Stance. Will this combo work OK on Epic Normal content, or will the enemies be taking forever to kill at that point?

    Also, should I go Ninja Spy with this character for extra sneak attack damage? I thought I had read that sneak attack damage does not work at range. My other monk is Shintao, so I'd like to go Ninja just to be different, if the sneak attack part does work.

    Lastly, what Epic Destiny would you recommend starting in at 20?

    Right now I like this character, but if I'm going to NEED raid gear at upper levels to be of any use to anyone I group with, then I might as well stop now when I haven't invested so much time yet.

    Thanks again for your advice.
    Bow of Sinews is good enough till lvl 20. Not sure if you can get it on casual.
    Ninja Spy is great for a monk archer especially due to Shadow Fade (25% incorporeality for 1 minute for ki).

    You'd want Pinion but depending on whether you try to do EE quests, you won't necessarily need Pinion.

    The two main destinies are Shiradi (better CC) and Fury of the Wild (better DPS).
    If you want to go Fury, check out this build:
    https://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=405243

  19. #19
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Silver Longbow and Longbow of Earth should cover most fights from lvls 8 on until you get Bow of Sinew. You've outleveled it a bit, but you might want Greatbow of the Scrag from 3BC (higher base dmg and blunt is good for skeletons & clay golems); and Shatterbow is good for all constructs except clay golems (who have DR Blunt+Adamantine). Don't forget to farm up your House D favor so you can stock up on Silver etc. arrows.

    For epic levels, what you really want is Pinion; but in the interim, epic Earth Longbow, Silver Flame, and/or Thornlord should suffice.

    Ranged sneak atks require you to be within 15 meters of your target (as well as the usual reqs for SAs), but they work fine. Ninja Spy II would add 3d6 SA; HE rog dilly would add another 3D6 SA.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
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  20. #20
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Keep your eyes open for lootgen bows too as there are some nice combos out there - desert sand is one of my favourite prefixes, the slicing winds portion has a decent proc rate & damage & if you can pair it with a multi-effect suffix too, even better (i recently found a desert sand of mauling, love it).

    If you're able, there's also the classic greensteels - lit2 & 3xpos are very solid performers.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

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