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  1. #1
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    Default 12 Druid/6fighter/2mnk Wolf DPS - Bear Tank

    Has anyone built one of these?

    In todays game maybe It's a little weak in respect to only really being able to melee, no serious offensive casting or serious ranged power.

    I'm considering building one, human and it has a heap of feats to fit in the full natural fighting line + the full shield mastery line + some metas for healing and stunning fist.
    Was wondering if anyone has one built and if so how does it play?

    As a note I enjoy deep splash multi classes and can essentially get gear to fit a build I want without to much issues. So being gear intensive wouldn't be an issue.
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  2. #2
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    Default

    forget bear, its awful, horrible, worst thing imaginable
    if you dont want bear for fluff / rp, pretend it does not exist.

    if you want better selfheal 15druid / 4fighter / 1mnk

    pure wolf dps 9druid / 2fighter / 9mnk
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  3. #3
    Community Member drsmooth's Avatar
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    Default agreed

    Bear form in it's current state is terrible.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I was leveling a STR-based druid 13 / ftr 6 / wiz 1 bear tank build and unfortunately it didn't work nearly as well as I had hoped. First off, Intim bonus w/shields doesn't carry over into bear form; and SD stance doesn't work right either (don't get the right PRR & hate bonuses, IIRC). Second, bear melee DPS is pretty bad compared to wolf; and the tanking / defensive benefits (extra PRR, Turtle, Wild Healing) don't make up for it.

    Eventually I got fed up and LRed into WIS-based pure druid. Still use bear-form cuz I'm a stubborn idiot, but at least now I have Earthquake w/decent DC.

    I might try druid 13 / ftr 6 / wiz (or monk) 1 tank as a combo again someday, but as human-/elemental-form S&B build, not as bear.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
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  5. #5
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    Yeah as everyone has mentioned all that stuff is what I was afraid of.

    The idea with the bear is it was never going to be the primary form, this was always going to be wolf, running with stunning fist and full natural fighting etc.
    Just switching into bear when the needs arise, now I guess I don't have to build it, though I still sort of want to hehe.

    I have a hybrid melee/non DC caster druid that is in fire ele form atm and love it, but I had this in mind for a different toon.
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  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    I'm considering building one, human and it has a heap of feats to fit in the full natural fighting line + the full shield mastery line + some metas for healing and stunning fist.
    Missed this the first time. Drunks still need to be centered in order to use Stunning Fist in animal form; so shields are a no-go if you really want SF.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
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  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Missed this the first time. Drunks still need to be centered in order to use Stunning Fist in animal form; so shields are a no-go if you really want SF.
    Yeah the idea was to run it centred in Wolf form and uncentred in Bear. Which would require some difference in gear set up/play style dependent on the form and situation.
    For gear I would see it mainly as an Armor/shield and weapon swap with the majority of the rest of the gear staying pretty static at end game.
    Toons:
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  8. #8
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    Default Stalwart defense or Shadow veil or Natural fighting?

    Hi all,
    I was going to open a thread with my in-process build, and I red that one about it...

    I am thinking on two options:
    - 6 Monk / 6 Fighter / 8 Druid
    or
    - 6 Monk / 5 Fighter / 9 Druid

    Dwarf for dragonmark and +4 CON & hit points or Human for even more feats and healing amplification.


    The 6/6/8

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Male
    (6 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 8 Druid \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 558
    Spell Points: 449 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 13
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             14                    14
    Dexterity            13                    13
    Constitution         18                    24
    Intelligence         13                    13
    Wisdom               14                    14
    Charisma              6                     6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               5                    28.5
    Bluff                -2                     6
    Concentration         8                    31
    Diplomacy            -2                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                     6
    Heal                  3.5                  18
    Hide                  1                     9
    Intimidate           -2                    24
    Jump                  6                    20
    Listen                2                    10
    Move Silently         1                     9
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     9
    Search                1                    13
    Spellcraft            1                     9
    Spot                  2                    10
    Swim                  n/a                  n/a
    Tumble                2                    10
    Use Magic Device      0                    12
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Warding
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 8 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf
    
    
    Level 9 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 10 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 11 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear
    
    
    Level 12 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Master of forms
    
    
    Level 13 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 14 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of forms
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Elusive target
    Or the 6/9/5

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Male
    (5 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 9 Druid \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 476
    Spell Points: 496 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 23
    Reflex: 11
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             14                    17
    Dexterity            13                    13
    Constitution         18                    23
    Intelligence         13                    13
    Wisdom               14                    14
    Charisma              6                     6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               1                    17
    Bluff                -2                     6
    Concentration         4                    15
    Diplomacy            -2                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                     9
    Heal                  2                    10
    Hide                  1                     9
    Intimidate           -2                     9
    Jump                  2                    15
    Listen                2                    10
    Move Silently         1                     9
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     9
    Search                1                    14
    Spellcraft            1                     9
    Spot                  2                    10
    Swim                  n/a                  n/a
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device     -2                     6
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Warding
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 8 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf
    
    
    Level 9 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    
    
    Level 10 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 11 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear
    
    
    Level 12 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Master of forms
    
    
    Level 13 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 14 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear
    
    
    Level 15 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of forms
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Guardian angel
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Elusive target

    Before reading all the negative feedback my question was:

    6/6/8
    6 Monk for 25% Incorporality & 3% dodge
    6 Fighter for Stalwart defense and all its upgrades
    8 Druid for Dire Bear

    Having Grandmaster of forms you can put together Grandmaster Earth stance + Stalwart defese + incorporality/evasion
    You get a lot of CON, 45% increase on armor and lot of thread generation

    The 6/9/5 version looses or Incorporality or Stalwart defense, and grants access to 18% doublestrike via full natural fighting.
    Once that said, a 6 fighter, 2 monk, 12 druid may be an option too.

    Ok, I've red the thread, but I had to post that somewhere :P

    Thx all, any comments?

  9. #9
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    Default The 2 Monk 6 Fighter 12 Druid

    "If you start something, finish it"

    Here you have the 3rd option

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Male
    (6 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 12 Druid \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 501
    Spell Points: 1343 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 10
    Will: 15
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             14                    15
    Dexterity            13                    13
    Constitution         18                    24
    Intelligence         13                    13
    Wisdom               14                    14
    Charisma              6                     6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               1                    16
    Bluff                -2                     6
    Concentration         4                    15
    Diplomacy            -2                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                     9
    Heal                  2                    10
    Hide                  1                     9
    Intimidate           -2                     9
    Jump                  2                    13
    Listen                2                    10
    Move Silently         1                     9
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     9
    Search                1                    13
    Spellcraft            1                     9
    Spot                  2                    10
    Swim                  n/a                  n/a
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device     -2                     6
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Warding
    
    
    Level 4 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf
    
    
    Level 5 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 6 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Adept of forms
    
    
    Level 7 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear
    
    
    Level 8 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 9 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 10 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Master of forms
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 18 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of forms
    
    
    Level 19 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf
    
    
    Level 20 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Guardian angel
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Elusive target
    That one keeps Stalwart defender, Grandmaster of earth stance and full natural fighting.

  10. #10
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moneman View Post
    "If you start something, finish it"

    Here you have the 3rd option

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Male
    (6 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 12 Druid \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 501
    Spell Points: 1343 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 10
    Will: 15
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             14                    15
    Dexterity            13                    13
    Constitution         18                    24
    Intelligence         13                    13
    Wisdom               14                    14
    Charisma              6                     6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               1                    16
    Bluff                -2                     6
    Concentration         4                    15
    Diplomacy            -2                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                     9
    Heal                  2                    10
    Hide                  1                     9
    Intimidate           -2                     9
    Jump                  2                    13
    Listen                2                    10
    Move Silently         1                     9
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     9
    Search                1                    13
    Spellcraft            1                     9
    Spot                  2                    10
    Swim                  n/a                  n/a
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device     -2                     6
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Warding
    
    
    Level 4 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf
    
    
    Level 5 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 6 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Adept of forms
    
    
    Level 7 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear
    
    
    Level 8 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 9 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 10 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Master of forms
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 18 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of forms
    
    
    Level 19 (Druid)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf
    
    
    Level 20 (Druid)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Guardian angel
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Elusive target
    That one keeps Stalwart defender, Grandmaster of earth stance and full natural fighting.
    You may run into some problems with combining monk stances and stalwart defender if you want to use a shield.

    I'm trying to make a dwarven druid tank. I'm going with 14 druid/6 fighter.

    I'm wondering if any of the bugs mentioned by Umbongwah have been corrected with the new enhancement pass. Particularly the interaction with using a shield in stalwart defender and animal forms.

    Fighting with the bear presents a real challenge. I'm still working out the timing of button presses to optimize the rate of attacks. Some of the animations are difficult to break. I suggest always starting the attack chain with either a trip or a sunder, it seems to get you an extra attack before the long pause as the bear raises onto it's hind legs. Then, after a couple of attacks while reared, use your cleaves, or the maul attack.

    P.S. Does anyone know if the active monk past life feat raises the weapon die when in animal form?
    Last edited by FestusHood; 09-28-2013 at 08:46 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member
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    Default

    Yes, the past life does increase the animal form damage, at least it did before U19.

    Concerning the shield, I won't be using a shield, I prefer to see the toon as a pijama tank but hairy :P, tier 3 4 and 5 of defender require shield, so you loose them, a pity.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default

    I was thinking something along the lines of druid 13 / monk 6 / ftr 1: swaps between wolf & bear forms, Master Earth Stance, Shadow Veil, WIS-based for decent AC & DCs or STR-based for moar DPS. Feats are tough to work out, though, since so many of them can't be taken until higher lvls. Natural Fighting req's druid 9, IC:Blunt req's BAB 8, Master of Forms req's monk 6 + char lvl 12. Druid 13 gets you lvl 7 spells: Regen & Relentless Onslaught.

    So leveling order is something like: druid 1-9, monk 1-2, ftr 1, monk 3-6, druid 10-13. Monk bonus feats: Stunning Fist, Power Atk, Toughness. Ftr bonus feat: IC:B. So that lets you take Natural Fighting x3 (9,12,15), Master of Forms (18). First 3 feats can be Emp Heal, Quicken, and something else.

    The problem is with this level split, I can't convince myself animal forms are worth it compared to unarmed (TWF) Drunks in elemental form.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 09-29-2013 at 08:26 AM.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  13. #13
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    Default

    For a super fun wolf form I suggest reading that:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ker-quot-build

    I leveled one to 25 and it's awesome!
    Extreme fast attack, tons of sneak attack dices, tons of doublestrike.

    Regarding the natural forms, bear may not that interesting, but wolf is:

    Winter Wolf

    You attack 30% faster, you gain a +5 bonus to attack while flanking, +2d6 sneak attack damage, and a 15% enhancement bonus to movement speed.
    Your natural attacks do 1d10 damage, do both piercing and slashing damage, and critically hit for triple damage on a roll of 19 or 20.


    The problem with natural weapons is that you do not get those rpecious 2(1d10) epic weapons, or x3 x4 etc... and reading about that I found:


    "How does Wild Shape mix with Monk levels?

    If you have monk levels, the damage of your animal form matches that of your monk unarmed damage, which means at low levels it will decrease your damage in bear form, but as you progress, the damage will increase as normal for monk. (FALSE: I checked my 6monk/1Fght/13Druid and in bear form it deals 1.5(1d12) so 1.5 because of monk and 1d12 of bear form)

    Two Weapon Fighting does not affect your attacks in animal form, irrespective of any levels in monk.

    Monk stances can be used in animal form, as long as you are centered.

    If you are a monk, and have two non druid (eg kama) weapons equipped, your damage in animal form will revert to the base damage of the animal, instead of the monk Unarmed Strike damage. You will also get no benefit of the magical properties of either weapon. (to work around this, only have one weapon equipped as you shift, then the damage will be calculated properly) (FIXED?)

    Weapon Focus: Unarmed (granted by Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning) and other effects that improve unarmed attacks also affect the attacks of animal/magical beast forms.

    It may be good to note that the spell Flame Blade will not uncenter you and the blades strength improve with your caster level. (not worth, +x modifier of weapons does not apply to natural weapons)


    Regarding elemental forms, how do they improve your TWF?, for TWF be ranger, for heals FvS.. what's the point?, I see elemental as season's empower, summer fire, winter water...

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