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  1. #1
    Community Member fervidsea's Avatar
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    Default Current Tank/DPS builds

    Hello, I'm a returning player that just had a few quick questions.

    I would like to start from scratch, besides a few account bound items and some plat I didn't trash in my last drunken stupor when I last quit. (I now have mostly naked characters sitting in the crafting area

    When I actively played I primarily played casters and with 3 characters in mid TR I got burnt out really quick. I had a Barb, tr'd to something(deleted). Monk tr'd to fight/monk and then bard. Cleric to fvs to wiz. All of them are in limbo and I would like to come back, but not to them. I also have a caped pure war-chanter and almost capped wiz, naked of course.

    My questions are, for a first life 32pt build, which best bang for your buck tank and dps builds are the current flavor. I prefer pure, or lightly splashed characters if that makes a difference. I'm currently a casual player, just looking to kill some time and have some good ol' DDO fun.

    I hope that's not to vague. Take care and thanks in advance for any advice.

  2. #2
    Community Member -Zyxas-'s Avatar
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    Tanks:
    Fighter or Paladin with their defender PrE and Unyielding Sentinel (sometimes Legendary Dreadnought) ED. Specced for HP, saves, PRR, AC (not TOO much investment, but the BIG bonuses are good), and hate. These are very tank-focused characters, but not much tanking is required anymore (that you can't do with a mainly-dps character with some defense investment). Not many of these builds are seen anymore.



    DPS:

    1. Pure monk, half-elf with cleric dilettante to keep yourself alive.

    2. Assuming you meant melee dps, but Sorcs and Wizards in Shiradi or Draconic Incarnation with a damage focus rather than DC focus are common and good. Sorcs commonly splash 2 paladin [saves] and wizards sometimes splash monk [evasion, feats, reflex].

    3. Juggernaut: WF 16 Arti / 2 Monk / 2 (ranger [feats, versatility] or paladin [saves])
    Uses two-handers, heals with Recon, uses arti buffs, uses manyshot. Very solo-friendly and survivable.
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=404822

    4. Not melee, but Monkchers are popular now. HElf 12 monk / 6 ranger / 2 (fighter [feats] or arti [umd] are the most common splashes). If not arti-splashed, usually Cleric Dilettante, otherwise usually rogue.
    Uses a bow. Manyshot and 10,000 Stars cover two thirds of your shooting time (more factoring in activation times, buffing, taking care of yourself, moving from point A to point B, etc).
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=405243 is the primary build, but is stat and tome intensive, so you'd probably want something different.
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=405583 is a recent thread about other variants on the Monkcher, with lower stat requirements (because of no Overwhelming Critical).

    5. Barbarians and fighters are not popular anymore. They don't take care of themselves so well and that is stressed nowadays. Pure (or lightly splashed) rogues are also rare: squishier but with better healing (umd). It's not that these classes are bad, but they have a hard time living up to the current standards for newer raids and Epic Elite. Pure (or lightly splashed) rangers are also rare because Monkchers are very similar, but better in many cases. Paladins are decently survivable, but it is hard for them to have "good" DPS. Keep in mind that these classes work, but they make certain activities extremely challenging.
    DISCLAIMER: Forums are a place of help - and of opposition... I'm not attempting to spark hostility. I state my opinions because I think they are useful. It is the reader's choice whether to adopt my opinions. I want to show people different reasoning and options so they can enjoy the game more fully. Usually this leads to walls of text. Sorry.

  3. #3
    Community Member Dieterstrife's Avatar
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    Fighters take skill to play in the new endgame. Thankfully, UMD isn't all that difficult to get on one anymore (even pure) but you still have to play to the fighters greatest strength: Tactics.

    Barbarians though, Barbarians are not worth even mentioning. Horrible survivability makes their dps not worth it. Currently a Paladin will put out more realistic dps because they are so much more likely to survive. No, Silver Flame pots do not make you as sturdy as a Paladin.

    Juggernauts give good versatility towards dps and defenses, but then you have to play an ugly WF.

    There is an option that if you really want a tank build they did boost up sword and board fighting, and there are a few people running around with a dwarven axe or a bastard sword and a shield, just fighting like that. I'm currently running one and it's not all that bad, and it does have quite a lot of survivability just from being a solid defensive design. You do have to be at least 14 paladin (Zeal, 15 is preferred and 18 is best) or pure 20 fighter. Druids can be great s&b, but they have to be in wolf or bear for to make it work. It's all about the doublestrike
    De'Corenai of Argonessen. If you've seen me, you know what I'm talking about.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zyxas- View Post
    Tanks:
    Fighter or Paladin with their defender PrE and Unyielding Sentinel (sometimes Legendary Dreadnought) ED. Specced for HP, saves, PRR, AC (not TOO much investment, but the BIG bonuses are good), and hate. These are very tank-focused characters, but not much tanking is required anymore (that you can't do with a mainly-dps character with some defense investment). Not many of these builds are seen anymore.



    DPS:

    1. Pure monk, half-elf with cleric dilettante to keep yourself alive.

    2. Assuming you meant melee dps, but Sorcs and Wizards in Shiradi or Draconic Incarnation with a damage focus rather than DC focus are common and good. Sorcs commonly splash 2 paladin [saves] and wizards sometimes splash monk [evasion, feats, reflex].

    3. Juggernaut: WF 16 Arti / 2 Monk / 2 (ranger [feats, versatility] or paladin [saves])
    Uses two-handers, heals with Recon, uses arti buffs, uses manyshot. Very solo-friendly and survivable.
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=404822

    4. Not melee, but Monkchers are popular now. HElf 12 monk / 6 ranger / 2 (fighter [feats] or arti [umd] are the most common splashes). If not arti-splashed, usually Cleric Dilettante, otherwise usually rogue.
    Uses a bow. Manyshot and 10,000 Stars cover two thirds of your shooting time (more factoring in activation times, buffing, taking care of yourself, moving from point A to point B, etc).
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=405243 is the primary build, but is stat and tome intensive, so you'd probably want something different.
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=405583 is a recent thread about other variants on the Monkcher, with lower stat requirements (because of no Overwhelming Critical).

    5. Barbarians and fighters are not popular anymore. They don't take care of themselves so well and that is stressed nowadays. Pure (or lightly splashed) rogues are also rare: squishier but with better healing (umd). It's not that these classes are bad, but they have a hard time living up to the current standards for newer raids and Epic Elite. Pure (or lightly splashed) rangers are also rare because Monkchers are very similar, but better in many cases. Paladins are decently survivable, but it is hard for them to have "good" DPS. Keep in mind that these classes work, but they make certain activities extremely challenging.
    Few things:

    In end game, fighters(even pure) are absolutely viable for self sufficiency. Scroll healing and using an archmagi(or 200sp yellow slot) item and twisting Rejuvenation Cocoon, along with tactics, makes it a very good option. Takes a lot of gear and grind though.

    Regarding rangers, they are survivable, but lack in the dps department. The thing most people are going with is some split(monkcher type split) to take advantage of manyshot(6rgr) and 10k stars(6mnk) with Fury of the Wild. A 12rgr+/6+mnk would fit in this category. Doesn't need to have a 12/6 or 6/12, but for a ranger flavor it fits.

    Juggernaut is based on that concept of "Manyshot+Fury of the Wild" but adds Recon for efficient self healing and Repeaters.

    All these MS+FOTW builds take very good gear. You said you're casual and just came back, that means you're probably not going to have the gear to make it viable.

    Barbarian does suffer the most from the growing demand for self sufficiency. Barbarian rage inhibits clickies, scrolls, and spells. That really just leaves SF pots due to normal healing potions being very, very, very low healing for a character's hp in the end game. SF pots come late in a barb's life and take high favor from unpopular quest chains and aren't good enough(for various reasons) for epic elite to be main healing most of the time.

    These ideas are very advanced concepts for EE that you're not up to yet and playstyle wise may not be up to in general. That said, gearing has become MUCH, MUCH easier for the casual player(in the end game, but in U17 some nice changes were made to lower lvl items too). Some quest chains have items that drop on (epic) elite, (epic) hard, and (epic) norm with slightly different stats getting worse the lower difficulty you loot them on. Even the epic normal items are fantastic; where elite would be 100%, hard is 90% and normal is 80%.

    From what you're saying and taking the game climate, I'd say paladin with 15 levels and a couple light splashes(2-3 mnk for feats and evasion or 2-3 rog for umd and evasion, and 2ftr for feats), the Juggernaut(with pal splash for less intense gearing), pure monk, or pure rogue.

    All this is assuming you'll get(and you should if you plan on being there for long, very big power increase) epic destinies for the 20+ game.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  5. #5
    Community Member Purkilius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfORCastrator View Post
    Few things:

    In end game, fighters(even pure) are absolutely viable for self sufficiency. Scroll healing and using an archmagi(or 200sp yellow slot) item and twisting Rejuvenation Cocoon, along with tactics, makes it a very good option. Takes a lot of gear and grind though.

    Regarding rangers, they are survivable, but lack in the dps department. The thing most people are going with is some split(monkcher type split) to take advantage of manyshot(6rgr) and 10k stars(6mnk) with Fury of the Wild. A 12rgr+/6+mnk would fit in this category. Doesn't need to have a 12/6 or 6/12, but for a ranger flavor it fits.

    Juggernaut is based on that concept of "Manyshot+Fury of the Wild" but adds Recon for efficient self healing and Repeaters.

    All these MS+FOTW builds take very good gear. You said you're casual and just came back, that means you're probably not going to have the gear to make it viable.

    Barbarian does suffer the most from the growing demand for self sufficiency. Barbarian rage inhibits clickies, scrolls, and spells. That really just leaves SF pots due to normal healing potions being very, very, very low healing for a character's hp in the end game. SF pots come late in a barb's life and take high favor from unpopular quest chains and aren't good enough(for various reasons) for epic elite to be main healing most of the time.

    These ideas are very advanced concepts for EE that you're not up to yet and playstyle wise may not be up to in general. That said, gearing has become MUCH, MUCH easier for the casual player(in the end game, but in U17 some nice changes were made to lower lvl items too). Some quest chains have items that drop on (epic) elite, (epic) hard, and (epic) norm with slightly different stats getting worse the lower difficulty you loot them on. Even the epic normal items are fantastic; where elite would be 100%, hard is 90% and normal is 80%.

    From what you're saying and taking the game climate, I'd say paladin with 15 levels and a couple light splashes(2-3 mnk for feats and evasion or 2-3 rog for umd and evasion, and 2ftr for feats), the Juggernaut(with pal splash for less intense gearing), pure monk, or pure rogue.

    All this is assuming you'll get(and you should if you plan on being there for long, very big power increase) epic destinies for the 20+ game.

    Very good advice here^^

    If you have access to the Druid class that might entertain you + they are very versatile.
    Argo: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir

  6. #6
    Community Member Hawkston's Avatar
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    Heheh, he says he's a casual player and gets all this advice about endgame and EDs. Does anybody play heroic levels anymore or does everybody skip them now?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkston View Post
    Heheh, he says he's a casual player and gets all this advice about endgame and EDs. Does anybody play heroic levels anymore or does everybody skip them now?
    Heroic levels lead up to epic. He already got exhausted from trying 3 TRs at a time and doesn't sound (referencing the OP) keen on trying to level up his 2nd/3rd lifers. For me "casual" just means limited playtime or not as much dedication for the "optimal build". Can still get to epic levels being a casual player.

    Besides, whether they get there or not, some people like a snapshot of what to shoot for so the time they played their chars isn't wasted with poor decisions of build making them less than viable for the end game or using time grinding for gear they won't use after 1-3 levels.
    ME BARB, ME SMA-ok I stand here with pretty blue lines around me. ok I take damage. ok bye.

  8. #8
    Community Member fervidsea's Avatar
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    Great replies thank you very much. I will look more into the paly and fighter play styles which I have never played fully and browse some more threads on pure monks builds atm. I already leveled 2 of them, a third one shouldn't be that hard to re gear. I solo mostly and group for raids and needed content. I played around with EDs some before I left but still have no clue. I'm sure I will look into it some more.

    I had all the great characters that I just wanted to tweak just a little bit more, but my hat goes off to you guys that can TR and TR and TR... I just don't have the stomach nor time for it any more.

    Again thx for your time and suggestions.

  9. #9
    Community Member fervidsea's Avatar
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    Sorry if I missed it...

    Are there any pure paladin or fighter builds lurking around. Was thinking maybe a dwarf, but haven't looked. Didn't know if you old salts knew of them off hand.

    Thanks.

    Edit: Sorry found both of these: The Axehead and The DDD
    Last edited by fervidsea; 04-03-2013 at 08:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member -Zyxas-'s Avatar
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    I agree that Fighters CAN heal themselves, and can heal themselves well - monks and fighters have essentially the same healing. I just don't see fighters healing often, and I don't think it would be easy enough on the first life. Cleric or FvS dilettante? Sure, but Fighters have little other reason to put 5ish build points into Wis or Cha. Cleric Dilettante fits much better with monks, and monks have better/easier saves and evasion. Fighters can get better PRR, AC, and health (if specced for those, which detracts from offense).

    AC and saves for monks compliment their offenses - Wisdom for stunning and other tactics (ToD if dark) helps AC and will, Dex helps evasion and unlocking offensive options (Wind Stance and TWF chain), and everyone should have Con. Fighters have lower saves. Will and Reflex are not as natural for pure or near-pure fighters. Feats, enhancements, and combat style (sword and board) are the main determinants of a fighter's ability to have defense, while monks sacrifice little offensive investment in these areas for defense's sake.

    Summary: I don't look at what each class can do, but what each class can do better or easier than the other. Both require the same investment for healing and the basically the same gear investment for defense, but monks' defense combos with their offense easier IMO. Please note my disclaimer below: My opinions are based on my experience.
    DISCLAIMER: Forums are a place of help - and of opposition... I'm not attempting to spark hostility. I state my opinions because I think they are useful. It is the reader's choice whether to adopt my opinions. I want to show people different reasoning and options so they can enjoy the game more fully. Usually this leads to walls of text. Sorry.

  11. #11
    Community Member boredman's Avatar
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    For a 32 pt build with little resources? WF (Warforged) caster.

    Seriously, Meeles are good at lower levels but they need lot of gear and buffs for dps, tactics and self suficiency at higher levels, they also need tank gear for damage mitigation, while the casters can self heal easily, can range/kite that tough bosses and can get easily the basic gear for damage they need. The just need to work a bit on the saves, hp and some dcs of their spells.

    For lower-mid levels The WF Artificer is the most powerful, with his repeater xbow, pet, buffs, turret, blade barrier, rune arm, traps capable and reconstruct (Just get a decent reflex save and maybe splash with 2 monk/rogue for evasion).

    The WF sorcerer 18/paladin 2 (At low levels can meele with a THF weapon while get more sp as leveling), is very powerful at high levels with high aoe dps spells, some crowd control spells, uber saves, reconstruct and draconic destiny for energy burst (later can get shiradi destiny for sustanied and cc dps too)

    If want to go with a fleshie race can do a Druid, wolf form for lower levels and then caster form, high wisdom for spells dcs, good healing (can splash with 2 monk levels for evasion)

    If still want to do a meele, a light monk is good with evasion, good saves, heal amp, tactics and some self healing, or can try a paladin too, but they need more gear for dps, heal amp, self heals, ac, prr, etc., at higher levels, or a Half elf cleric dilletante fighter for heal scrolls usage after lvl 15.
    Last edited by boredman; 04-03-2013 at 10:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
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    A pure 20 rogue can be a decent tank. Mine on Orien, XxMazexX, SneakATank build, has tanked all the bosses in elite ToD, Elite Vod, and hard Hox. Unyielding Sentinal for ToD/Vod, Fury of the Wild For hox for the SA damage. Any class can be a good tank, you just need to built them correctly and get the right gear to outfit your character in the way you like it.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

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