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  1. #41
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Talking Well golly gee-whiz!

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    Last edited by Xanendor; 05-14-2013 at 09:35 PM.
    Xanendor's Experience Planner
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  2. #42
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    Hi generalfoley,

    I am not exactly sure what you are asking me to add.

    This Experience Planner should have every quest possible in game, that is to say - I took every quest listed from DDOWiki and put it in this spreadsheet. DDOWiki is, I suppose, pretty much the "go to" website about anything DDO related.

    The purpose of this spreadsheet I think is the same as what you are looking for. When I get all the bonuses and penalties added correctly to the spreadsheet, you can select every quest in it, and then scroll the spreadsheet to the right-hand side and you would then be able to see which quests gave the most experience, bonuses and least amount of penalties.
    It sounds like he/she is looking for a sortable feature that will list quests by most xp and/or ease of zerging. Like some kind of rating system.

    I have a spreadsheet of my own that I use, and I have my favorites highlighted.
    Favorites meaning quickest amount of xp in the shortest time, often if it is soloable or not counts heavily into that.

    My spreadsheet is simply a list of quests with links embedded that is sortable by level and then by base xp. What you already have is far beyond what I did, which I why I'm following your project so closely. It appeals to the OCD side of me.
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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  3. #43
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    A different approach to what you're doing, but might be of some use if you want to check your xp calculations.

    I'll add a link to the Quest Log template that I make available to guildies. It basically allows you to replicate the Quest XP Report and calculates the numbers exactly the same as the game does.

    The different approach is perhaps that I provide them with a template that they can fill in themselves, to encourage them to actually do every quest to work these things out for themselves if they're interested in that sort of thing And then do the quests again on different difficulties, solo or with different sizes of party if they want to see what that would look like.

    Once you have the basic numbers, you can then play around with what-if scenarios, like what if Turbine have an XP Event running? What if you didn't have a trapper with you to get the trap bonus? What if you skip all the breakables? What if you only do a hard streak? What if you have no streak at all?

    Once you have some data in your template, you can then answer some of the commonly asked questions like:
    1. What's the theoretical minimum number of quests that I need to do to cap a 3rd life toon, regardless of xp/min?
    2. How many quest hours would I need to log to cap a 3rd life toon assuming optimum xp/min?
    3. What are the "best" quests to do? Hint: Answer is below.

    The quest completion times that people log will inevitably vary, but the idea is that they get to build up a picture based on your own playstyle, or just ignore the times completely if you're really not interested.

    This is an older version of the one that I currently use, but hopefully will help you verify your calcs and verify how different bonuses are applied. I've added some comments just to confirm where some of the numbers come from. It has "sub-totals" that you can verify against the in-game Experience Report as you go through the quest or at the end.

    The one I use has more detail around Optional XP and includes travel time to quests from the airship, from the previous part of the chain etc, it also automates a lot of the calculations based on total character XP for level bonuses, and lets me "turn off" blocks of quests (like Cult of The Six which can be excellent XP/min if you have the patience to farm certain parts of it, but one that I tend to skip completely these days).

    The idea is that you can copy and paste items from your log to build up a separate level-up plan, and then tinker with that. You can then look at your plan and see for example what XP you gain from having a trapper in your party. What does it actually cost you when people die and you lose the no-death bonus ....

    Looks like yours will be a lot more automated for people, good luck with the project.

    Answer: The best quests are those where people do not die repeatedly, that run smooth with good party communication and where everyone has a good time.
    Last edited by Deadlock; 04-06-2013 at 11:02 AM.

  4. #44
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    Okay, you got me. I'm stumped. What exactly do you mean?

    Here's how I break down your message:
    -- At the end of all, when XP is awarded --> to me sounds like it adds +10 of the base experience, it adds +10% on top of all optionals like monsters, traps, doors, breakables.

    -- It does not change base quest XP -- > I don't understand how it doesn't add +10% of the base xp. If you mean it did not change the number printed at the very top of your dungeon's experience report, it wouldn't. That's a static number that all the other bonuses are based off of.

    If I'm not mistaken, the +10% from VIP may not even be listed in the experience report. I do know you get [+experience messages] in your chat window from the VIP bonus. If it appears at all in the dungeon's experience report it would probably be on a separate line further down, showing a number that is base xp x 10%. So if the base xp was 10,000 for example, maybe there'd be a line showing +1000 with some type of named label with it.

    I'm definitely the novice here, I'm not questioning you and saying you are wrong. I am just asking for a better understanding.

    Thanks nibel.
    Let's use your 10,000 base XP quest as an example.

    If you have every single quest bonus XP there, it will be:

    -50% elite bravery bonus
    -20% running elite first (if the first time you run a quest, you do it on elite, you get this, regardless of bravery streak)
    -50% greater XP tome
    -80% first elite run (this bonus stays even if you have run the quest before)
    -25% Conquest (kills)
    -15% Ransack (breakables)
    -15% Ingenious Debilitation (traps)
    -15% Vigilant Sight (secret doors)
    -10% Flawless (no deaths)
    -10% Persistance (no reentries)

    For a total of 290% extra XP. So, the quest will gives 39,000 XP (10k base, 29k bonus).

    If the VIP bonus was merged there, you would raise the extra XP to 300%, getting 40k XP. However, it is applied at the moment you get the XP, you you get 10% of the total value (ie, 3,900 XP), for 42,900 XP.

    Voice of the Master and Mantle of the Worldshaper, Guild XP shrines, and XP potions are equal, providing extra XP when it is awarded. THose bonus are bundled together on the XP award message. So, if you have voice, a 3% XP shrine and a 10% XP potion, you'll get 18% extra XP (7,020 XP).

    And if you get those bonus AND are a VIP, the total XP at the end show everything bundled up (49,920 XP), one message for VIP bonus (3,900 XP), and one message for other XP bonus (7,020 XP).
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  5. #45
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Last edited by Xanendor; 05-14-2013 at 09:35 PM.
    Xanendor's Experience Planner
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    If I had a separate bonus column for VIP I would list 3,900 in that column for that quest, but I don't have a column for that because I wanted this spreadsheet to match the dungeons experience report in the sense that, the dungeon experience report actually has a line item entry for Breakables, Traps, and so on. There is no entry for VIP (that I ever recall seeing).
    There's nothing on the XP report for XP Pots, guild ship XP buffs or VOM either

    Event XP is shown. The link I've given you above lists the XP bonusses in the same order you see on the Experience Report

  7. #47
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Wink

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  8. #48
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Last edited by Xanendor; 05-14-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    Hey now. Way to sneak another post in while I was replying to your previous one.

    Yeah, well, my spreadsheet doesn't have columns for pots, ship buffs and so on, so neener! rofl
    Are you applying the same kill, trap, secret and breakable bonus to every quest in your calcs via the Control Panel option?

  10. #50
    Community Member Lord_Asmodeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    If you wouldn't mind helping me out with this experience planner, please scroll up in this thread to post #2 by me.

    I'm asking for screenshots of a full and complete Adventure Compendium from a VIP player who is level twenty and has access to all game content.

    Thanks.
    Sorry wont have time to screen shot everything, but I do have the original list I used for my TRGrinder. It was compiled by a guildie of mine. Ahy who had extensive help from Mr. Crow.
    Perhaps next life when I plan on slowly leveling up, since I will be completionist finally! I would be more than happy to send you the screenshots. You can msg me in game on Sarlona, my main toon is Homunkurusu.
    Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

  11. #51
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Last edited by Xanendor; 05-14-2013 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Hamsters! Need more hamsters! DOH! Don't forget the cheese!
    Xanendor's Experience Planner
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    You are either asking one of two questions:

    1. Does every quest & dungeon run for that quest have bonuses for traps, doors, breakables and etc? - Makes me think you never downloaded this spreadsheet to see for yourself, or looked at the screenshots in the original post.

    Answer: Yes, each quest and dungeon run for that quest has those bonuses applied.
    I have the spreadsheet infront of me. I'm trying to work out how you're doing your calcs and wanting to check that I'm making the correct assumptions. I'd assume that you would get the same bonusses for each repetition of a quest. There are exceptions where you might skip optionals after a number of repetitions which result in not getting the same bonuses as before, but they're not worth considering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    But what I *think* you are really asking is:

    2. Are the values that are selected in the ControlPanel applied to every quest and dungeon run for that quest, identical? Yes. Assuming you have a copy of this experience planner, if you switch to the IdeaBoard page in the spreadsheet and read my comments for Idea#1, you will see why I made that executive decision.

    The values selected in the ControlPanel are on an ALL or NOTHING case.
    That's what I thought you were doing, thanks for confirming.

    For a first time elite run on The Missing Party, doing all optionals, with 48% XP Boost from 30% pot, 10% VIP, 5% VOM and 3% ship buffs, the numbers should be:

    Code:
    Base XP                            5,116
    First time elite +80%              9,208
    Bravery bonus +20%		  10,231
    Maximum elite streak +50%	  12,789
    Conquest +25%			  14,068
    Ransack +15%                      14,835
    Persistance +10%		  15,346
    Flawless +10%                     15,857
    Greater Tome +50%                 18,415
    
    +48% XP Boost                     27,254
    
    +Optional XP	                   7,561
    
    TOTAL XP                          34,815
    Can't get the same numbers from the downloaded spreadsheet though. Have just finished my Delera 2 farm for this life, and was able to confirm that these numbers are correct.

    Have added the first-time Elite run on Delera's to the spreadsheet I linked just to let you see how these numbers should be calculated.

    And no thanks on the offer to be head hamster I've put the hours, days, weeks and months into this for my own benefit already Wouldn't want to deprive you of the fun of doing it for yourself It is interesting though to see how others approach the same problem from different angles.

    EDIT: Screenshot of the final XP report just to verify:

    Last edited by Deadlock; 04-06-2013 at 08:09 PM.

  13. #53
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Accuracy? Where? Who said?

    I finally get a chance to bring something up that I've wanted to since I started this project. Now seems like the right opportunity to say this.

    Xanendor's Experience Planner isn't meant to be 100% accurate, lol hell my math skills aren't that good to begin with but what I wanted to get at is, this planner isn't about accuracy. It's only purpose is to help plan ahead "as much as possible".

    My goal is for this to help you get close to your goal (of reaching your character's next life). If you filled out this spreadsheet in it's entirety, or lets say you used it to plan out every play session (several quests at a time until you reached your characters next life) if by the end of it all you ended up being a few dungeon runs short (on hard let's say), that's not too bad! I got you in the ballpark and close to the door, all that's left for you to do is take the few steps forward to finish. Get what I mean?

    I can't imagine how I could possibly make this 100% accurate. Sure If I designed this planner so that you can adjust every bonus and penalty for each and every dungeon run (think many thousands of variables YOU'd have to answer) then yeah I could probably come super close to accurate.

    But I don't see that happening.

    This was just a stupid idea of mine, something I'd thought I'd try to build to see if I even could. The more work I did on it the more my eyes lit up. I was seeing the potential in all of this, I was seeing results, I was taking this further than I really planned (was supposed to be for me only to begin with).

    Anyhow, close is good enough right? I hope.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Xanendor; 05-15-2013 at 09:21 AM.
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  14. #54
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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  15. #55
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Question Optionals

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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    Hey I got a question for you all.

    All of you are in a better position to answer this than I am. I haven't been playing at all lately and besides you probably know this answer off the top of your head.

    My question is about quest optionals, like kill so and so or find so and so or rescue so and so. For an even better example, just scroll up to the post above this with the screenshot of "The Missing Party" Experience Report. See those optionals?

    Are quest optionals ALWAYS there? Or are they like finding rares in the wilderness zones, sometimes they are there and sometimes they are not?

    Xanendor's Experience Planner does not currently include any experience for optionals. Now, with the help of DDOwiki and me looking up each quest one by one I could, I suppose, include optionals in the spreadsheet but if they are *sometimes there and sometimes not* then I don't see how I could make this work.

    If I was to include optionals I'd have to do it in the same way I am currently doing the bonuses and penalties, meaning - it'd have to be an ALL or NOTHING case, either you get ALL of the optionals (and the experience for all of them) or you don't get any experience at all.

    Anyhow, I'd appreciate an answer of course and let me know your thoughts on this if you have any.
    It depends on the quest and the optional. Some are always there some are only there sometimes.

    Maybe you could just include the ones that are always there?

  17. #57
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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  18. #58
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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    Question Here's another question

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  19. #59
    Community Member Xanendor's Avatar
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  20. #60
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    DDOWiki doesn't say which ones are always there or not, not that I am aware of though. Does it? And for every quest?
    The optionals that involve killing some specific mob (eg, Kill Oozo) may be or not generated. Usually, the best place to look if this mob spawn is checking the monster list at the end of the page. It says there if the monster is rare or not. In this quest example, only the final boss is listed as "always spawn", so the other have a random chance to appear. Also, the monster page also says if they are rare or not.

    Optionals based on locations or actions are always there (eg, find Guard Jung's lost badge. The badge is always there).

    Remember, however, that there are some few optionals that exclude other optionals. eg, in The Stormreaver Fresco you need to choose if you will "resist open the treasure vaults", or "slay the vault guardian" and "slay Vanya Amanatu". You can't reach those two objectives without breaking off of the first one. There is no shortcut on this one, you need to know the quest to know which one are excludent or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanendor View Post
    I added the Power-level penalty to the spreadsheet but now I need a clarification on the rule for it.

    DDOWiki wrote it up as -

    "If you are exactly 4 levels below the highest-level character in the party, you receive a -50% penalty. If you are 5 levels below, you receive a -75% penalty. If you are 6 levels below, you receive a -99% penalty. If you are 7 or more levels below, you receive no XP regardless of bonuses."

    I thought I was doing fine up until I read the part about "...you receive no XP regardless of bonuses".

    Seems kind of vague to me.
    The quest base XP drops to zero.

    Up to 6 levels under, you only get a -99%, and may make up for it with optional bonuses. 7 levels can never compensate with optionals. The base XP actually drops to zero.

    This is actually one of the reasons why I advocate for the LFM standard range to chance for 1 leve over and 2 levels under, instead of the actual 2 levels over and under. If you are level 10, and get a level 8 and a level 12 character in the same group, the level 8 character takes a -50% penalty.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

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