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  1. #1
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    Default Bardcher with full trapskills

    As my second life Bardcher closes to lvl 20, I started to think about TRing one last time (with this toon, that is). All this bardcher business has really impressed me so far - with Manyshot I am now able to overDPS anyone with fast regeneration (I wasn't able to kill before), I take way less damage and have no problems getting rid of various mobs on perches etc. So, bardcher again, but higher level in that.
    The aim is to create a toon capable of running EE's confidently, and capable of participating (and with that also helping) in any such quest or raid. Most of the fun can be done using just Fascinate, but the question is survivability through traps and spells. And when I take rogue levels for evasion, I may as well also use them for trapskills.
    As mentioned in the previous build, I have access to major part of not-easily obtainable loot and also to crafting, so that gear intensiveness of such build does not scare me. I even got few tomes through my questing (+3s everywhere save Str and Wis), so the sole reason to do the TR is to create a really effective toon for epics who will be fun to play too.

    So, to get to the build's strong and weak points:
    Strong points:
    - Full Ranged DPS
    - All the bard good stuff (Fascinate, other songs)
    - UMD around
    - full trapskills
    - evasion
    - nice saves
    Weak points:
    - enhancements laid very thin
    - feats laid very thin too
    - possibly lower amount of HP's (630) and SP's (1300) without counting ED's
    - late bloomer

    Tirain Hawksong, True Neutral Half-Elven Spellsinger 16/Ranger 2/Rogue 2
    Stats (36-pts build)
    STR 42 = 16 (base) + 6 (level-ups) + 2 (tome) + 1 (enhancement) + 2 (ship buff) + 7 (item) + 2 (insightful) + 1 (exceptional) + 2 (rage) + 2 (inspire excellence) + 1 (Fatesinger ED)
    DEX 37 = 16 (base) + 3 (tome) + 2 (enhancements) + 2 (ship buff) + 8 (item) + 3 (insightful) + 1 (exceptional) + 2 (inspire excellence) + 1 (Fatesinger ED)
    CON 36 = 14 (base) + 3 (tome) + 1 (enhancement) + 2 (ship buff) + 8 (item) + 2 (insightful) + 1 (exceptional) + 2 (rage) + 2 (inspire excellence) + 1 (Fatesinger ED)
    INT 29 = 13 (base) + 3 (tome) + 2 (ship buff) + 7 (item) + 1 (exceptional) + 2 (inspire excellence) + 1 (Fatesinger ED)
    WIS 26 = 8 (base) + 2 (tome) + 2 (ship buff) + 8 (item) + 2 (insightful) + 1 (exceptional) + 2 (inspire excellence) + 1 (Fatesinger ED)
    CHA 31 = 13 (base) + 3 (tome) + 1 (enhancements) + 2 (ship buff) + 8 (item) + 1 (exceptional) + 2 (insightful) + 2 (inspire excellence) + 1 (Fatesinger ED)
    Please note some numbers are odd - the item setup counts with just the items and tomes I have available right now. With U17 a lot of new things appeared I wasn't able to farm so far and it will be easier to get +8 stat/+3 insightful stat to get a point or two higher here and there... also counts only with tomes I have currently available.

    Feats and levelling:
    Leveling order (B-bard, R-Rogue, A-Ranger): RBBBABBBRBBBABBBBBBB
    1: Point Blank Shot, Half-Elf Paladin Dilletante (start with Half-Elf Fighter Dilletante to cover weapon profs, switch to Paladin at lvl5)
    3: Weapon Focus: Ranged
    5: Bow Strength (Ranger bonus)
    6: Maximize Spell
    9: Manyshot, Evasion (Rogue bonus)
    12: Improved Critical: Ranged
    13: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus), Two Weapon Fighting (Ranger Bonus)
    15: Precise Shot
    18: Quicken Spell
    21: Inspire Excellence
    24: Improved Precise Shot

    Skills:
    23 ranks of Concentration, Disable Device, Haggle, Perform, Search and Use Magic Device;
    1 rank of Tumble
    4 ranks in Open Lock and Spot
    10 Ranks in Jump
    19 ranks in Balance
    UMD is above 50 total, enough for everything important. Perform caps at approx. 70, Haggle on around 65 without item switch (possible to get it higher with item switch easily)
    DD is maxed on lvl 1 and 9-cap, lower in mid levels, Search is more evenly spaced. Both these should end around 68-70 with proper switch gear.

    Enhancements:
    Half-Elf: Arcane Archer
    Bard Inspired Damage III
    Bard Spellsinger II
    Bard Lyric of Song II
    Bard Song Magic III
    Bard Energy of the Music III
    Improved Concentration II
    Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Bard Lingering Song III
    Bard Charisma I
    Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Human Versatility II
    Human Improved Recovery II
    Rogue Haste Boost I
    Half-elf Improved Paladin Dilettante II
    Ranger Dexterity I
    Human Adaptability: Constitution
    Human Greater Adaptability: Strength
    Ranger Devotion I

    HP:
    Around 680 self buffed, capable to get to 730 self buffed plus temporary ones in defensive mode

    SP:
    Over 1500, with 10% discount on spell costs, SP replenishment, Torc + ConOp, including ED's.

    Saves:
    Fort 45, Will 42, Reflex 53.
    Other defenses are DR 10/Good, Displacement, Ghostly, Dodge 13%, AC around 65-70

    Saves:
    Healing Amplification: 205.9%

    I won't post all of the items for the build as it will use a lot of swaps, suffice to say I have acquired everything important for the build (GS HP item, GS SP Con-Op item, Torc, Red dragonhide, Pinion, quite a few epic things, Litany of the Dead, Upgraded Quiver of Alacrity, ...).

    Now... what do you think? Any suggestions? Any input is welcome before I TR (in a week or so)!
    Last edited by Dodoroq; 04-10-2013 at 05:11 AM.
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
    Recruitment Officer and proud member of The Silver Legion on Cannith. Feel free to PM me about the guild!

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    With the changes to the AC system, I'm thinking there's no longer much incentive to maxing out Inspired Atk; dropping it would free APs for, say, maxing Song Magic, W&S Mastery, and/or Versatility.

    Is there some reason not to max Haggle?

  3. #3
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    As a player with 12 active Arcane Archer Builds one being an Bard AA Spell singer I can say that adding the ability to do traps as well is very cool BUT it does spread everything a little thin

    My Bard is 16 Bard / 2 Ranger / 2 Fighter and I just JUST had enough feats and Action Points to accomplish everything. I haven't really gotten into ED's with that toon yet BUT it seems like there is a lot of room for "fun" with this build

    You want a fun toon that is pure fun ??

    Elven Arcane Archer - 18 Fighter Longbow Kensai 3 / 1 Druid / 1 Ranger

    Good luck with your build. I am in the midst of hunting for an Arti build
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  4. #4
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    With the changes to the AC system, I'm thinking there's no longer much incentive to maxing out Inspired Atk; dropping it would free APs for, say, maxing Song Magic, W&S Mastery, and/or Versatility.
    Good point in that - Inspired Attack eats up 6 AP's to make my songs +5 Attack, which is MORALE bonus. If I drop those 6 points, I would personally loose +1 Attack (as I always run with GH on) and all around me without GH would still be on +3 Attack from the basic songs. Those 6 AP's might come invaluable - TY.
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Is there some reason not to max Haggle?
    Yes, there is - I want maxed DD, Search, Perform and UMD. Even with the current level split and class progression, which is optimal not to spend skill points as cross skills as much as possible and still get as high as possible, I can only max one more skill from the selection of Balance, Concentration and Haggle. At level 14, two of these are 17 and the other is 15 ranks deep (can be switched otherwise), after that I can only get one of those skills to max. I have selected Concentration - want survivability, which somehow excludes Haggle from the calculations, and for Balance, I do not see major change - when I fail the save, I will still fall, and the time to get up was not dramatically different in this difference of ranks. Concentration close to 60, however, can be pretty useful for scroll healing (almost everything else is quickened) against archers, who do base damage around this number, thus every point here helps (if I remember correctly, that is).

    Quote Originally Posted by 96th_Malice View Post
    ... do traps as well is very cool BUT it does spread everything a little thin
    True, mainly for the feats. I will dearly miss the 5-min rages, hastes and displacements. However, as for AP's, there was only a little I wanted more, dropping those 6 points from Inspired Attack as unbongwah suggests will get me where I want to be.

    Other than Extend, there is nothing I need (and apply for - would need +5 Dex tome for Combat Archery if it is ever repaired; never got even a single +4 tome myself).

    Plus, the basic thing was I wanted Evasion, not trapskills, those are only a bonus. Unfortunately I cannot mix Bard and Monk - would grab 2 monk levels without hesitation instead of 2 rogue levels if I had a choice.
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
    Recruitment Officer and proud member of The Silver Legion on Cannith. Feel free to PM me about the guild!

  5. #5
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    So, finally I have TRed, and found out some flaws in the original build idea (mostly caused by the fact I was getting more skillpoints then I have expected :-)).

    Thus, changed the original build in several ways:
    - reorganized class order - non-bard classes are taken earlier then before to have Evasion and Bow Strength sooner
    - redone skillpoints (now Haggle is capped, Balance is higher and Jump is enough to have +40 without any temporary buffs)
    - changed some items to desired ones. This beefs up saves, skills etc, and allows me to cover every item ability in the build I find useful (Sneak Attack, Seeker, Deathblock, False Life, ...) without item switch.
    - Half-Elf Dilletante is changed at Fred at lvl4 just before leveling up to 5 from Fighter to Paladin to cover martial proficiency until then. I have a blast using ML1 crafted Vicious Flametouched Iron Greatsword of Bleeding on lower levels :-)
    - made the suggested changes to enhancements
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
    Recruitment Officer and proud member of The Silver Legion on Cannith. Feel free to PM me about the guild!

  6. #6
    Community Member pappo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodoroq View Post
    So, finally I have TRed, and found out some flaws in the original build idea (mostly caused by the fact I was getting more skillpoints then I have expected :-)).

    Thus, changed the original build in several ways:
    - reorganized class order - non-bard classes are taken earlier then before to have Evasion and Bow Strength sooner
    - redone skillpoints (now Haggle is capped, Balance is higher and Jump is enough to have +40 without any temporary buffs)
    - changed some items to desired ones. This beefs up saves, skills etc, and allows me to cover every item ability in the build I find useful (Sneak Attack, Seeker, Deathblock, False Life, ...) without item switch.
    - Half-Elf Dilletante is changed at Fred at lvl4 just before leveling up to 5 from Fighter to Paladin to cover martial proficiency until then. I have a blast using ML1 crafted Vicious Flametouched Iron Greatsword of Bleeding on lower levels :-)
    - made the suggested changes to enhancements
    Did you put your changes into post #1 on this thread ?

  7. #7
    Community Member phalaeo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodoroq View Post
    - Half-Elf Dilletante is changed at Fred at lvl4 just before leveling up to 5 from Fighter to Paladin to cover martial proficiency until then. I have a blast using ML1 crafted Vicious Flametouched Iron Greatsword of Bleeding on lower levels :-)
    Why do you need proficiency when you can use Master's Touch? It's a level 1Bard spell and grants simple and martial proficiency.

    I'm currently trying this build out, and I'm using a Greataxe at lower levels. I just started with Pally Dilettante, and between MT and Focusing Chant, I have no problems hitting on Elite. We went through levels 1-6 tonight, and will be Otto's boxing it when we hit 8.

    I think I may swap out Maximize for Mental Toughness, though. If I can self heal via Heal Scroll, I don't need SP healing unless it's an emergency. Both are pre-reqs for Spellsinger, so I shouldn't have any problems with the PrE.

    I'll let you know how it goes!
    Pallai, Saraphima, Chennai
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    No fancy formatting for you!

  8. #8
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    Yes, I did, I believe it does not make sense keeping a build plan which will not be used up just for the reference.
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
    Recruitment Officer and proud member of The Silver Legion on Cannith. Feel free to PM me about the guild!

  9. #9
    Community Member MarcusCleardawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodoroq View Post

    ---

    Enhancements:
    Half-Elf: Arcane Archer
    Bard Inspired Damage III
    Bard Spellsinger II
    Bard Lyric of Song II
    Bard Song Magic III
    Bard Energy of the Music III
    Improved Concentration II
    Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Bard Lingering Song III
    Bard Charisma I
    Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Human Versatility II
    Human Improved Recovery II
    Rogue Haste Boost I
    Half-elf Improved Paladin Dilettante II
    Ranger Dexterity I
    Human Adaptability: Constitution
    Human Greater Adaptability: Strength
    Ranger Devotion I

    !
    Why take Arcane Archer and no Imbues?

  10. #10
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    Huh, somehow I have forgot to look into this thread for quite a long while. So, feedback first, answers next.

    I am lvl17 right now, and even on third life, things go pretty smooth XP-wise. Playing this toons is a blast and I really cannot wait when I am lvl20 to try epics out, as so far nothing is a problem. I am basically following what is shown in the starter post, possibly with some changes to feat taking order.

    When I was checking enhancements in the next update on Lamma-land, I am slightly worried about viability of this build (or any non-ranger AA for that matter) after the update. But only time will show us what will make it on live...

    As for the question, I do take the whole AA line including imbues, but as each one is just 1 point worth enhancement, I didn't want to type it all and just use the "Arcane Archer" entry worth 14 points.
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
    Recruitment Officer and proud member of The Silver Legion on Cannith. Feel free to PM me about the guild!

  11. #11
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    Default U19 changes to the build

    Hey all,
    I wanted to update this thread with U19 changes to this character. The update pretty much made the build... guess what... STRONGER. Changes that happened with the update:

    Enhancements taken:
    Arcane Archer
    1 Arcane Archer
    2 Morphic Arrows
    2 Metalline Arrows
    2 Aligned Arrows
    2 Corrosive Arrows
    2 Conjure Arrows
    2 Energy of the Wild
    2 Shock Arrows
    2 Force Arrows
    2 Terror Arrows
    1 Soul Magic
    2 Dexterity
    1 Banishing Arrows
    1 Paralyzing Arrows
    1 Smiting Arrows
    25

    Deepwood Striker
    1 Far Shot
    3 Increased Empathy
    4

    Half-Elf
    1 Half-Elven Versatile Nature
    2 Human Adaptability: Constitution
    1 Human Versatility: Damage Boost
    2 Human Adaptability: Strength
    1 Human Versatility: Skill Boost
    2 Improved Dilettante: Paladin
    2 Improved Recovery
    4 Arcane Archer
    2 Improved Recovery
    17

    Spellsinger
    1 Spellsinger
    1 Music of the Sewers
    1 Music of the Dead
    1 Music of the Makers
    3 Magical Studies
    3 Lingering Songs
    3 Wand Heightening
    2 Yellow Marigold Crown
    3 Wand and Scroll Mastery
    2 Enthrallment
    2 Spell Song Trance
    2 Charisma
    2 Sustaining Song
    2 Song of Arcane Might
    2 Charisma
    2 Song of Capering
    2 SpellSong Vigor
    34

    There are few more I would like to have, but this can be done only at the expense of losing some of the imbues or some of the Tier 5 songs, so no way. Unfortunately.

    Feat Changes:
    Weapon Focus: Ranged changed for Extend Spell. I was pretty much missing that one.
    Maximize Spell for Empowered Healing (Cocoon for the Win)!

    Skill Changes:
    My spells are almost exclusively Quickened. I would be glad to exchange Concentration for Heal at this point, however Heal skill is not a class skill for Bards, and I will not be changing this one for a cross-class. No changes.

    I still have 100 Healing Spellpower pre-items, around 300 Empowered and with equip. This forces my Cure Serious to hit for around 250, Cure Mass Medium for around 150 before HealAmp. Found this to be enough when I have Sustaining song running and with Cocoon...
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
    Recruitment Officer and proud member of The Silver Legion on Cannith. Feel free to PM me about the guild!

  12. #12
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    Default Besides the Pinion...

    What gear are you running on your characters? I am in the process of leveling my bard, and I am curious as to what gear I should be shooting towards once I reach 20, 25 and cap.

    Thanks in advance

  13. #13
    Community Member Ailaesaedol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodoroq View Post
    Skill Changes:
    My spells are almost exclusively Quickened. I would be glad to exchange Concentration for Heal at this point, however Heal skill is not a class skill for Bards, and I will not be changing this one for a cross-class. No changes.

    I still have 100 Healing Spellpower pre-items, around 300 Empowered and with equip. This forces my Cure Serious to hit for around 250, Cure Mass Medium for around 150 before HealAmp. Found this to be enough when I have Sustaining song running and with Cocoon...
    It is a class skill for rangers though. Maybe ditch haggle and concentration and you could take it to max or do you prefer your current set up? Personally I dont really bother with haggle as I dont think plat is very scarce and if you have quicken, concentration may not be as useful as more positive spellpower.

  14. #14
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    I have played up to 28 and I love it. I only have 34 points instead of the 36, but I am not willing to TR this character again. I played both SS and AA top enhancements, and I feel arrows of slaying are much more beneficial than song of vigor. I can activate arrows of slaying during fury and many shot and it will throw out more damage than adding more spell points to any spell caster. I also went a little different with gear.
    I run with Black dragon hide with a sapphire of heavy fort and draconic ferocity
    Helm of +10 int, resistance 9
    planar focus of prowess with +8 con
    pinion (of course)
    treads of shadow +8 dex +3 exc dex, ghostly and striding 30%
    epic spare hand with diamond of vitality, and sapphire of resistance 12
    magewright's cloak with charisma 6, perform 10, exc perform +5, and stealth strike which is another 15% reduction in hate or
    nether grasps with seeker 8, profane str 2, diversion 20% (Which is awesome), and open lock 17
    ring of ogre power +8, 45 hp
    epic ring of the stalker with globe, feather fall, exceptions sneak and manslayer
    bracers of the sun soul with 7 wis, insightful con 2, and parrying 4
    intricate field optics with spot 20, true seeing, exc int 3
    necklace of charisma 8, wiz IX which is switched to skirmishers necklace for 9% dodge and deadly 8, which can be switched to necklace of search +19, or silver flame necklace

    if I need to get aggro, or if I have aggro and it isn't leaving anytime soon, or it doesn't matter, I will put on a jeweled cloak (to absorb the "boom") instead of the magewrights and put on my 45 hp gloves instead of the nether gloves

    i have a 50 balance, 64 disable, 70 perform, 52 umd, 67 spot, and s 71 search with gh and boat buffs. I have a 16% dodge right now, and a 39prr, and 792 hitpoints as I sit right now in Fury of the Wild. I am working my way through off destinies for more twist of fate points.
    Last edited by Nadalis; 02-26-2014 at 02:28 PM.

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