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  1. #1

    Default KenseiII/TempestI/rogue help please

    Wanting to put together a build that dual wields and takes advantage of high burst dps via manyshot. I mean who doesn't like solo 10 second EE Sorjek kills?

    Looking at 12 Kensei to pick up the fighter PL, 6 Tempest for free feats, sprint boost and buffs, and 2 rogue to round it out with evasion/self healing via UMD. I know it would never rival the sustained ranged dps of a monkcher, but I believe it could be a very good jack of all trades combat toon. Really great melee capability with decent ranged output for situational requirements, and 20 seconds of awesome burst for bosses.

    I'l be the first to admit I'm a build noob, thus the post here. I'm not saying, "Look at my awesome build!" but rather, "Help shed some light on an idea and let me know if it holds up or falls down."

    I am looking at building around http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemeathnip to eliminate the need for Exotic wpn prof: Khopesh. 17-20 x5 crits with all the bonus seeker from kensei sounds pretty sexy. Generally I hate the idea of building around a weapon, but with lockania and the tons of siberys dragonshards I have banked could easily swap Imp Crit feat around to match whatever weapon type you're using at the time.

    PL: barb, paladin, rogue, bard, monk

    Staring stats option A

    16 Str (+4 tome +5 level ups)
    15 Dex (+4 tome for Improved Precise Shot)
    16 Con (+4 tome and could divert 1 level up from str if its decided Epic Toughness should be taken)
    11 Int
    10 Wis
    11 Cha

    Ends with unmodified skills of;

    19 Disable
    14 OL
    23 Search
    16 Spot
    23 UMD

    OR

    Starting Stats option B
    16 Str
    15 Dex
    16 Con
    14 Int
    8 Wis
    10 Cha

    Ends with unmodified skills of;

    9 Balance
    23 Disable
    19 OL
    23 Search
    16 Spot
    23 UMD


    Free feats granted by Ranger
    Bow Strength
    Rapid Shot
    Precise Shot
    Many Shot
    TWF
    ITWF


    Feats required for Tempest
    Dodge
    Mobility
    Spring Attack

    Bonus from taking Tempest
    7% dodge from feats
    10% increased offhand proc rate
    +2 shield bonus to AC
    +3 PRR
    5% IAS


    Feats required for Kensei II
    Weapon Focus
    Weapon Specialization
    Greater Weapon Specialization

    Bonus from taking Kensei II
    +1 hit +4 dmg from feats
    +2 DC to combat feats
    +2 Action Boosts
    +2 Reflex Save vs magic
    +2 hit +2 dmg
    +4 Seeker
    +8 psionic Strength

    Feats required for OC

    Power Attack
    Cleave
    Great Cleave

    More or less Mandatory Feats
    Greater TWF
    Toughness
    Improved Critical melee weapon(easily swap around as needed)
    Improved Critical Range


    Which leaves 2 the following 3 feats to be selected

    Point Blank Shot
    Improved Precise Shot
    Stunning Blow

    Would probably take Point Blank Shot and Improved Precise Shot, though I hate the idea of not having Stunning Blow.

    I thought about dropping OC and therefore cleave/great cleave/ and take all 3 plus two more feats. Could take Exotic: Khopesh then if deathnips get nerfed or just get a better khopesh. Epic Toughness. Slicing blow for boss fights. etc

    I wondered about the efficacy of OC. According to the wiki your strength bonus, enhancement bonuses, and seeker bonuses are also counted as part of the base damage, and thus multiplied by the critical hit multiplier.

    So napkin math time;

    9 base wpn dmg 1.5(d6)
    5 magical enchantment
    10 seeker
    4 kensei seeker
    (don't think the 6 dmg from weapon feats would apply)
    ~19 strength

    So OC would be an additional 43 dmg approximately on crits, which would be 17-20 on a d20 which I think is 20% of the time. So approximately 8.6 extra damage per swing?

    Still not sure how to hit works since it's apparently not really a d20 roll. My head hurts.

  2. #2

    Default

    Something like the following. May move the feats around, just plugging stuff in initially.


    Strength 16
    Dexterity 15
    Constitution 16
    Intelligence 14
    Wisdom 8
    Charisma 10

    Tomes Used
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15

    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility


    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR


    Level 5 (Ranger)


    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


    Level 7 (Ranger)


    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave


    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


    Level 11 (Fighter)


    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


    Level 13 (Fighter)


    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot


    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


    Level 17 (Fighter)


    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


    Level 19 (Fighter)


    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons

  3. #3
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimknot View Post
    I am looking at building around http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemeathnip to eliminate the need for Exotic wpn prof: Khopesh. 17-20 x5 crits with all the bonus seeker from kensei sounds pretty sexy. Generally I hate the idea of building around a weapon, but with lockania and the tons of siberys dragonshards I have banked could easily swap Imp Crit feat around to match whatever weapon type you're using at the time.
    Especially in epic levels, DR is everywhere. You can get around a lot of it with a Good augment, but wouldn't you rather get around it with Holy and its 7 damage? I think on a build like this especially you just have too much room not to get Khopeshes.
    Which leaves 2 the following 3 feats to be selected

    Point Blank Shot
    Improved Precise Shot
    Stunning Blow

    Would probably take Point Blank Shot and Improved Precise Shot, though I hate the idea of not having Stunning Blow.
    I don't see IPS as being that useful for you. You're only ranging during Manyshot, and IPS only helps you in a crowd. Granted, it helps you a lot in a crowd, but by the same token as a DPS build you can get yourself in a lot of trouble aggroing a crowd. I would go PBS and EWP Khopesh. Ordinarily I really like Improved Sunder on DPS builds, but with a split focus in ranged it loses both luster and accessibility.
    I wondered about the efficacy of OC. According to the wiki your strength bonus, enhancement bonuses, and seeker bonuses are also counted as part of the base damage, and thus multiplied by the critical hit multiplier.
    Everything that is part of your big damage number counts, yes, plus Seeker and Seeker-like effects. Magical effects, sneak attack, etc. do not.
    So OC would be an additional 43 dmg approximately on crits, which would be 17-20 on a d20 which I think is 20% of the time. So approximately 8.6 extra damage per swing?
    OC only works on 19 and 20, regardless of weapon type.
    Still not sure how to hit works since it's apparently not really a d20 roll. My head hurts.
    It's still a flat roll, and for us it is mapped to a d20. The change is that instead of...

    to-hit + 1d20 vs. AC

    ...we have...

    (to-hit + 10.5) / (2 * AC) + 20% [if proficient] vs. "d20"

    ...the general net from this is that proficiency is much more important and any given to-hit bonus is much less (in some cases literally zero). It interacts sort of strangely with our escalating to-hit, though. Consider again the old version...

    to-hit + 1d20 vs. AC (first animation)
    to-hit + 1d20 vs. AC (second animation)
    to-hit + 5 + 1d20 vs. AC (third animation)
    to-hit + 10 + 1d20 vs. AC (fourth animation)

    ...pretty straightforward: if we are missing more than 25% of the time on the first and second animation, the third animation gives us +25% to-hit, and 50% for the fourth animation, but in the new version...

    (to-hit + 10.5) / (2 * AC) (first and second animations)
    (to-hit + 10.5 + 5) / (2 * AC) (third animation)

    ...if we're missing more than 25% of the time (say 30%), our +5 gives us +X% to-hit, where X is a function of AC and rounding to the nearest 5%. Suppose we set to-hit to 50 and AC to 60. Our first and second animations have 70.4% to hit, so on a 7 or higher we hit: 50 + 7 ">" 60. Our third animation has 74.6% to hit, so on a 6 or higher we hit, and we miss on a 5 or lower: 55 + 5 "<" 60, therefore 50 + 7 > 55 + 5.

    The secret is that the quotes belong around the +, not the > or <. The d20 roll is no longer an addend but a quotient.

  4. #4
    Community Member Bekki's Avatar
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    Hmmmm....

    Here is a build Sig treant did for me for "Crunchy Bits"

    Wasn't done for Epics and was done for my dwarf, but Maybe it will help.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=303285
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  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimknot View Post
    I am looking at building around http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemeathnip to eliminate the need for Exotic wpn prof: Khopesh. 17-20 x5 crits with all the bonus seeker from kensei sounds pretty sexy.
    Maybe I'm still half-asleep: what's boosting your crits from x4 to x5?
    16 Str (+4 tome +5 level ups)
    15 Dex (+4 tome for Improved Precise Shot)
    16 Con (+4 tome and could divert 1 level up from str if its decided Epic Toughness should be taken)
    11 Int
    10 Wis
    11 Cha
    I can understand beefing up INT, but why WIS & CHA?
    Could take Exotic: Khopesh then if deathnips get nerfed or just get a better khopesh.
    Alternatively plan on Balizarde: no feat swappage required, just switch Kensei from heavy pick to rapier.
    So OC would be an additional 43 dmg approximately on crits, which would be 17-20 on a d20 which I think is 20% of the time.
    Note that OC only applies to rolls of 19 or 20, so it would be 10% of atks regardless of actual crit range.

    What ED were you planning on?

    Also, if you're really looking into boosting your ranged DPS, I'd consider AA instead of Tempest I; naturally that means switching to HE or elf.

  6. #6

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    X4 to X5 is boosted by OC, however I was overlooking the 19-20 requirement. Also overlooking DC so would actually be X6 on 19-20.

    Int is bumped for skills.
    Wisdom is not bumped, base of 8.
    Charisma is bumped to 20 b/c 2 points is not enough to raise str/con and 10 vs 8 charisma is 1 more umd, making displacement clickies no fail in my current gear without the need for GH.

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