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  1. #1
    Community Member tylerdurden77's Avatar
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    Default requesting a summarized Juggernaut build thread

    I'd like to start a new thread (this one) where people can post their juggernaut builds and/or gear recommendations for quick reference.

    I recently ran some eGH side quests with a guildie who was running a Juggernaut and was very impressed. I've got a melee soul sitting at 20 that I haven't played in months and he's got enough relate-able gear from his first life to make a good candidate for getting TR-ed into a Jugg. So I asked my guildie about the build and he referred me to the original thread from Lurzifer/Haek.

    This is a very informative thread that includes tons of information. However, the thread is a couple months old and has over 500 posts and it is hard to quickly get to the most recent tried-and-true build and gear info as it is dispersed throughout that monstrous thread. For people like me who browse the Forums through the tiny screen on their smartphone it's pretty hard to get to the good stuff quickly. Hopefully, we can get the build posted or linked here to make it easier.

    Thanks guys!
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  2. #2
    The Hatchery Roland_D'Arabel's Avatar
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    I'd actually suggest reading the entire thread. There is A LOT of very valuable information that those who have perfected the build have shared. It doesn't seem right to ask those folks to repeat themselves. Just my opinion.
    A wise man once said that if you don't know the answer to something there is no shame in simply saying "I don't know."

  3. #3
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    The Big F'n Stick™ build thread had much the same issue at one time. (ref: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960 = 115 pages, nearly 2300 posts.)

    Best option is when the OP (or someone on the first page) stays active and updates the OP/early posts with links to important changes/updates to build basics. That way it keeps the info in one thread.
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 03-24-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member tylerdurden77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland_D'Arabel View Post
    I'd actually suggest reading the entire thread. There is A LOT of very valuable information that those who have perfected the build have shared.
    I agree with you about reading the entire thread. I did in fact do that and would recommend that others to the same. It has great input from the OP on the evolution of his build and which variation he prefers, great questions and answers from many forum-ites about the concept/play/gear/etc, and the obligatory objections from maddmatt on why it falls short of his expectations. Again, I too think everyone should read the entire thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland_D'Arabel View Post
    It doesn't seem right to ask those folks to repeat themselves. Just my opinion.
    I think it's reasonable to ask someone to repeat themselves when it comes to copy/pasting some text that they wrote in another post or opening up their character planner saved file and popping it into this thread. I am just asking for people to re-post or even link their tried-and-true builds here so we have them for quick reference. Also, there are several concept builds in the original thread. A lot of those concept builds probably never got road-tested or they did get road-tested and turned out to have some big flaws and were not worth rolling up. My thinking was that any Jugg-enthusiasts who actively play them would not mind doing this. The goal is to organize information for faster retrieval later.

    What I was looking for was a thread that acted as a Juggernaut build catalog similar to the ones that exist for many other types of builds or classes. Now if you accused me of being lazy and not wanting to scan through the original thread in order to put that together myself, then I would have to cop to that. However, in the spirit of crowd-sourcing, I was hoping people could just quickly re-post or link the builds that actually got played and used so no single person has to do that sort of effort.
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  5. #5
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    I think in brief summary it's mainly the 2 ranger version with cleaver, ESOS, sireth, khopeshes, or mornhs, geared for dps, survivability, and a splash of spellpower for reconstruct. Pinion is used in all cases. I'd post my version but I'm not capped yet.
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  6. #6
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    The Big F'n Stick™ build thread had much the same issue at one time. (ref: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960 = 115 pages, nearly 2300 posts.)

    Best option is when the OP (or someone on the first page) stays active and updates the OP/early posts with links to important changes/updates to build basics. That way it keeps the info in one thread.
    And that one needs an update. Hell, you could go for miles now w/ Sireth on just about any platform (or the stout oak) - Juggs do, so those are just carry-overs of the Big F'n Stick ;-)
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  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdurden77 View Post
    This is a very informative thread that includes tons of information. However, the thread is a couple months old and has over 500 posts and it is hard to quickly get to the most recent tried-and-true build and gear info as it is dispersed throughout that monstrous thread.
    Part of the issue is Juggernaut is a very adaptable build concept, IMHO, depending on what resources you have to start, which elements you want to emphasize (e.g., pally splash for saves or rgr splash for extra feats), etc. There is no one "true" Juggernaut because it's going to vary from player to player. So a better approach may be to post what you're starting with and where you want to go from there and someone can help you build a custom Jug.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Part of the issue is Juggernaut is a very adaptable build concept, IMHO, depending on what resources you have to start, which elements you want to emphasize (e.g., pally splash for saves or rgr splash for extra feats), etc. There is no one "true" Juggernaut because it's going to vary from player to player. So a better approach may be to post what you're starting with and where you want to go from there and someone can help you build a custom Jug.
    I agree with this.

    It's kind of like a tighter adaptation what the "monster" split used to be, where it was called a monster, but people would adapt it to their own playstyle. It's really just taking this concept and running with it.
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  9. #9
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdurden77 View Post
    However, in the spirit of crowd-sourcing, I was hoping people could just quickly re-post or link the builds that actually got played and used so no single person has to do that sort of effort.
    The base build hasn't changed much since the OP's original post. If you read the full thread you'll see he tried different combinations w/ IPS/Zen Archery/StunningBlow etc depending on the gear available.

    You can always lookup what the OP has for gear at:

    http://ddocrafting.info/myddo/thelanis/Haek/
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  10. #10
    Sketchy Adventurer aradelothion's Avatar
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    Biggest change I've noticed lately is the move away from Stunning Blow as the DC's are unreliable for when you really need it, and relying more on Cleaver's Limbchopper effect for cc. My Jugg is pretty undergeared, and has yet to pull Cleaver/Pinion, instead using eAGA/hardest hitting randgen bow I can find, and it's doing fine, even on EE. It's not gonna solo them anytime soon, but that's more a function of player skill than build
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  11. #11
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    How about you make your own build instead pf copying someone else's.
    Then your too lazy to even read about the build and why the builder did what he did.

    Players make the builds. Builds don't make the player. Theres already been enough easy buttons added to this game for people like yourself. If you don't know or understand why ppl build certain ways, chances are your just going to gimp around with that build because you don't know how or why it does what it does.

    But hey itz the current fotm so what else would you expect.

  12. #12
    Community Member tylerdurden77's Avatar
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    (sigh) I think the crappy name I gave to this thread has confused a lot of people and is not working out like I had hoped. I intended this thread to be a build index thread similar to these great ones from Impaqts or Wax On Wax Offs.

    I was hoping to get more replies like this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    I think in brief summary it's mainly the 2 ranger version with cleaver, ESOS, sireth, khopeshes, or mornhs, geared for dps, survivability, and a splash of spellpower for reconstruct. Pinion is used in all cases. I'd post my version but I'm not capped yet.
    So I gave it a few days to see if I would get some more responses like Scoobmx's but it seems there is a bit of blood in the water and the trolls have gotten a whiff. That's probably my bad for asking for a build index thread without providing an example of what I was looking for. Well, it's never too late to start.

    Here is a summary of the build I rolled up a few days ago and started leveling. It the the ranger splash variety. The things I did differently on this build were: (1) I dumped concentration since I took Quicken earlier than others did and, (2) I altered the starting stats to get away with only needing +3 tomes for STR, DEX, and CON on a 34-point 2nd-lifer. My skills are spread pretty thin on this but I can make up a lot of the ones that count with gear. Still working on the level 25 gear layout but it's probably going to be the Epic Black Dragon set with trap gear on almost all the time to minimize swapping.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 25 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
    (2 Monk \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Artificer \ 5 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 400
    Spell Points: 1005 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             15                    23
    Dexterity            16                    19
    Constitution         18                    21
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                6                     8
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 1
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 25)
    Balance               4                     9
    Bluff                 0                     6
    Concentration         5                    12
    Diplomacy             0                     6
    Disable Device        6                    31
    Haggle                0                     6
    Heal                 -1                     5
    Hide                  4                     8
    Intimidate            0                     6
    Jump                  4                    21
    Listen               -1                     5
    Move Silently         4                     8
    Open Lock             8                    33
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     8
    Search                6                    31
    Spot                  3                    28
    Swim                  4                     8
    Tumble                n/a                   9
    Use Magic Device      4                    29
    
    Level 1 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 8 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 9 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 10 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 11 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 12 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 14 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 15 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 16 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 17 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 18 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body
    
    
    Level 19 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Artificer)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 21 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 23 (Artificer)
    
    
    Level 24 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic Toughness
    
    
    Level 25 (Artificer)
    _______________________________________________
    THELANIS
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  13. #13
    Community Member tylerdurden77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveohio View Post
    snip
    Hmm.... where to begin? Well, thank you for you comments. I don't think you actually read this thread or any of my comments in it which is why you trolled me for the wrong thing. But trolls are known for their CON not their INT so I can see why this happened. I debated on whether or not to even respond to this but I fear there are others like you who failed their reading comprehension check and will start piling on. I'm hoping a response might nip this in the bud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveohio View Post
    How about you make your own build instead pf copying someone else's.
    I did. But I did fail to add it in the original post which might have prevented your "shoot first, remove foot from mouth later" post from ending up here. This one is on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveohio View Post
    your too lazy to even read about the build and why the builder did what he did.
    Umm.... here is a snippet from post #4 from this very thread. Scroll up, it's there.
    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdurden77 View Post
    I agree with you about reading the entire thread. I did in fact do that and would recommend that others to the same. It has great input from the OP on the evolution of his build and which variation he prefers, great questions and answers from many forum-ites about the concept/play/gear/etc, and the obligatory objections from maddmatt on why it falls short of his expectations. Again, I too think everyone should read the entire thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steveohio View Post
    Players make the builds. Builds don't make the player. Theres already been enough easy buttons added to this game for people like yourself. If you don't know or understand why ppl build certain ways, chances are your just going to gimp around with that build because you don't know how or why it does what it does.

    But hey itz the current fotm so what else would you expect.
    This. Just substitute the word "Thread" for the word "Room" during the speech and it fits perfectly.

    Now please return to your cave and thanks for taking the time to read this.
    _______________________________________________
    THELANIS
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  14. #14
    Community Member Son_of_the_South's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveohio View Post
    How about you make your own build instead pf copying someone else's.
    Then your too lazy to even read about the build and why the builder did what he did.

    Players make the builds. Builds don't make the player. Theres already been enough easy buttons added to this game for people like yourself. If you don't know or understand why ppl build certain ways, chances are your just going to gimp around with that build because you don't know how or why it does what it does.

    But hey itz the current fotm so what else would you expect.
    How about you build some manners into your personality.

    And remember, it's a game. Relax, no need to bust a vain over it.

  15. #15
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    This thread seems to have less info per post than the original thread

    Next time, bring something to the table. For example, define the categories of what you want to see and put a few links in each category. Then ask for additional links with the carrot of them being edited into the original post.

    As it is, there is more name calling in this thread (much of it from the OP) than there is build/equipment info.

  16. #16
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdurden77 View Post
    (sigh) I think the crappy name I gave to this thread has confused a lot of people and is not working out like I had hoped. I intended this thread to be a build index thread similar to these great ones from Impaqts or Wax On Wax Offs.
    I think one of the difficulties is that the juggernaut isn't really a build as such, its a build concept. You can mix the feats around and it changes things quite substantially, depending on what you want to achieve and what gear you have.

    The only permanent things (short of LR'ing) are the starting stats, and assigned skill points. With my version for example, I went with the ranger version for the extra feats, and used the following stat block:

    Str 16
    Dex 15
    Con 17
    Int 12
    Wis 12
    Cha 6

    with +4 tomes to all stats.

    For skills, I max'd out trapskills and umd, with 10 points in balance, some in jump and some in move silently. I dumped concentration entirely, as I took quicken early.

    But, since hitting epic levels, I've been changing things around quite frequently in terms of feats / weapons / abilities I use depending on the gear I have and what I want to experiment with.

    So at various times, I've had twf feats on my build, changed to two-handed slashing, then changed to staff and bow with zen archery etc. I've played around with monk stances and the sun soul set, using the earth finishing move, experimenting with different twists (lay waste vs. haste boost vs. energy burst etc). At any point in time, my version is optimised to the way I'm currently playing, but that set up may not be optimal for anyone else if they have different gear, different tolerance for active abilities etc. You find what works for how you play, and the juggernaut can be adjusted accordingly (this is one of the key strengths of the build concept).

    From reading the juggernaut thread, I think Haek has been doing the same with his; if you read the OP, he starts off with sireth and talks about zen archery, but the weapons used and the playstyle evolve based on how stuff works in practice (e.g. more recently it looks like he's dropping stunning blow entirely).

  17. #17
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    My bad op. I also read on a phone at work and thought i read you didnt want to look through the original post which struck me as extremely lazy. Instead your only mildly lazy

  18. #18
    Community Member tylerdurden77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveohio View Post
    My bad op. I also read on a phone at work and thought i read you didnt want to look through the original post which struck me as extremely lazy. Instead your only mildly lazy
    No worries mate. Glad we worked it out. And yes, I am being mildly lazy. I think csivils had some good advice about being more explicit in my original post about what I was looking for (categories, format, etc). I think I'll start a new thread and take that advice so we can get a Jugg build catalog for quick reference. I might wait a while though as I just recently read the "fleshy-Jugg" thread. That looks like it's got some legs and might end up producing some viable non-WF versions of this build archetype.
    _______________________________________________
    THELANIS
    Cloaken (Assassin) | Lightfoote (PM Wiz) | Bendr (Arty evoker) | Gurnee (Virt bard)
    Aquarium (Evasion tank) | Lenkah (FVS evoker) | Trappjaw (Melee soul)

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