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  1. #1
    Community Member Nytemeir's Avatar
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    Default 12 PM/ 6 Dark Monk/ 2 Fighter build

    I'm still developing this idea for a melee multi-class. It would have two past lives (sorc, cleric), and would use its spells exclusively for the vampire form/healing/buffing. The 2 levels of fighter would give it the attack bonus needed to get G2WF, and the oft-overlooked feat "whirling steel strike."

    My two biggest questions are:

    Will this work as a viable melee toon?
    At which levels do I take each class?
    I'm really making this up as I go along...

  2. #2

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    If you're happy using shorts instead of longs you can use the 6 levels of dark monk to take Spy which gives you the ability to use shortswords while centered. Remember, though, that using your forms requires unarmed combat so I wouldn't worry too much about using weapons at all outside of handwraps. Personally I'd take my first 6 levels of monk and then start working on your wizard classes. Dark monk is pretty self sufficient. I'd also go wf so your wiz reconstruction spells can heal you when you're NOT in pm mode, but that's just my opinion.
    Last edited by MasterHephaestus; 03-26-2013 at 01:20 PM.

  3. #3
    Sketchy Adventurer aradelothion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytemeir View Post
    I'm still developing this idea for a melee multi-class. It would have two past lives (sorc, cleric), and would use its spells exclusively for the vampire form/healing/buffing. The 2 levels of fighter would give it the attack bonus needed to get G2WF, and the oft-overlooked feat "whirling steel strike."

    My two biggest questions are:

    Will this work as a viable melee toon?
    At which levels do I take each class?
    You might want to take a look at another build with a similar split for ideas, the Shadovar Monk

    WSS is an oft-overlooked feat because unless you're rocking Celestias (edit: forgot Balizardes are rapiers doh), handwrap dps (especially with the possibility of using stunning fist) is a lot better. Probably not even then, but that's an unsubstantiated guess on my part. Also, there is some synergy with undead forms and unarmed fighting. If you're set on going 12/6/2, I would suggest wraith form over vampire, as the on-demand, always-on incorporeal is much better than shadow fade, and the 4x light vulnerability of vamp form really really hurts.

    A theorybuild I had some time back was going 12 Wiz/7 Rog/1 Monk, picking up g2wf with an epic feat. This gives you wraith form, 4d6+9 sneak damage, evasion, haste boost 3 (which rocks with unarmed), flurry of blows.
    Last edited by aradelothion; 03-26-2013 at 10:31 PM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Nytemeir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aradelothion View Post
    A theorybuild I had some time back was going 12 Wiz/7 Rog/1 Monk, picking up g2wf with an epic feat. This gives you wraith form, 4d6+9 sneak damage, evasion, haste boost 3 (which rocks with unarmed), flurry of blows.
    This is actually giving me some pretty evil ideas - I guess I really don't 6 levels in monk - since I can't get the lvl 9 benefit anyway, I might look into what the different classes give and only take one level. Thanks.
    I'm really making this up as I go along...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytemeir View Post
    This is actually giving me some pretty evil ideas - I guess I really don't 6 levels in monk - since I can't get the lvl 9 benefit anyway, I might look into what the different classes give and only take one level. Thanks.
    Curios, why even the one lvl of monk?
    You dont seem interested in Stunning Fist, which is the main reason for monk in most builds and the lower stances do not really justify giving up armor.

    Little side note, you want to stock up on sp pots and or get sp clickys.
    12 Wiz is low on sp, especially with using 100 just to enter form, then some buffs and you find yourself quite low for selfhealing.
    Manageable but low. (ive run every quest on ehard solo with my wraithblade, so i have some experience with that)

    Still Longswords sound tasty now with the updated and with oathblades waiting in eveningstar. But i would take monk only for the feats and evasion not for staying centered if you dont use stunning fist anyway.
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  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytemeir View Post
    I'm still developing this idea for a melee multi-class. It would have two past lives (sorc, cleric), and would use its spells exclusively for the vampire form/healing/buffing. The 2 levels of fighter would give it the attack bonus needed to get G2WF, and the oft-overlooked feat "whirling steel strike."
    WSS is "oft-overlooked" because it's a trap; spending two feats for worse DPS than you would get if you stuck with handwraps is not a good idea. Also the Achilles heel of vamp form is the 4x vulnerability to light spells. One divine caster really ruins your day, to the point where no one bases their builds on vamp form anymore.

    EDIT: if you really want blades, Ninja w/dual Celestias is a better idea.

  7. #7
    Community Member Nytemeir's Avatar
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    I could easily forgo to WSS, I was really only taking the two fighter levels for the base attack bonus - to get me G2wf.

    Question about PM's - do they fight like monks without taking monk levels... like the "flurry of blows" and all that?

    Ultimately, I'm looking for a wraith/vampire that fights like a monk.
    I'm really making this up as I go along...

  8. #8
    Sketchy Adventurer aradelothion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nytemeir View Post
    Question about PM's - do they fight like monks without taking monk levels... like the "flurry of blows" and all that?
    Nope
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  9. #9
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    Personally, I would go 6 PM/14 dark monk. You would still have Death Aura (or at least LDA) and you'd still have Zombie, but you'd have more levels in monk, thus dealing more damage unarmed. Add the +2 die steps from Zombie, and you'd deal the same amount of damage (again, I think. I can't remember how many times the Monk jumps unarmed steps from 15-20), with +2 STR, +2 CON, -2 WIS, and 20% slower attacks. So, not great, but go Wind stance to buff your attack speed back up a bit

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aradelothion View Post
    A theorybuild I had some time back was going 12 Wiz/7 Rog/1 Monk, picking up g2wf with an epic feat. This gives you wraith form, 4d6+9 sneak damage, evasion, haste boost 3 (which rocks with unarmed), flurry of blows.
    What DOES Wraithe form do for your unarmed strikes anyway?
    <<< Vampire PM CC spec (I am level 15 with 7 whole attack spells! Two are from NEB and DA, two more are the PM Necrotic Bolt and Touch, one more is Disintegration from my staff, and another one of those is Disrupt Undead.
    Easy to say, my kills in instances suck, but the enemies are too busy dancing or ****ing their pants to do much to my group anyways )

  11. #11
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    Default Don't give up

    I've had a TON of fun with what i've named a "Dark-Clonk." I run a regular Clonk too, and they're polar opposites.

    you get plenty of DPS with the handwraps, and I've never tried WSS, so i'm not going to comment on it. But i WILL comment on the fact that Stunning Fist is an attack that i use ALL THE TIME. I also have H-Elf rogue lvls so even soloing, once you stun something you start rolling sneak attack damage. After seeing the suggestion of 12/7/1 with rogue, i might try that in a future life.

    This build has 1 past life of monk, which i LRed into from a 12/6/2 wiz/monk/fighter, and i think i like the extra fighter feats/stance more from fighter than whatever i got from 6 lvls of monk.

    I don't like the idea of WF, personally, but that's just because i don't understand how a WF could be "undead" from a rollplaying perspective. But i have a buddy online with a WF version and he loves it's survivability.

    I've been running this toon as a timmy-tank, and i love it. I have both Wraith and Vampire for depending on the situation, but honestly, I'm in wraith like 80% of the time because of the increased miss chance, and less light damage.

    FYI, don't even worry about going undead until you reach lvl 12 wiz... zombie sucks and is slow.

    and Tenser's transformation no longer blocks casting, and the +4 to stats stacks now, so this build is just getting more fun by the minute. IMO

    have fun, don't give up the idea. You'll enjoy it, but people won't ever trust your build until after you save the party wipe.

    (edit= don't be discouraged by the low HP/SP lvls... those can easily be made up by gear and buffs and stances, but as noted above, get used to buying SP pots.)

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    nosferatix
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
    (6 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 12 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 276
    Spell Points: 763 
    BAB: 13\13\18\23
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 13
    Will: 19
    
                      Starting            Ending          
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
    Strength             16                 22            
    Dexterity            14                 17            
    Constitution         14                 17            
    Intelligence         12                 15            
    Wisdom               15                 20            
    Charisma              8                 11            
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                     8
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         6                    22
    Diplomacy             3                     4
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -1                     0
    Heal                  2                     6
    Hide                  4                    12
    Intimidate           -1                    24
    Jump                  3                     7
    Listen                2                     6
    Move Silently         6                    22
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     3
    Search                1                     3
    Spot                  2                     6
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                4                     6
    Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
    
    
    Level 3 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Wizard)
    
    
    Level 5 (Wizard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Wizard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Wizard)
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Wizard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 15 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 16 (Wizard)
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Sap
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Storm Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Storm Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Storm Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
    Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
    Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
    Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
    Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire
    Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith

  12. #12
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    Default another word

    another word about casting... I've armed my toon with all the non-save offensive spells so that way i can still cast now and then, plus i amped scroll/wands for the same reason.
    -
    DoTs don't have a save, so no need for high INT
    Force missles and chain missles have no save, so no need for INT.
    -
    But, TBH, i think that i could easily LR this guy once and start with 17 INT and boost INT at every lvl and have the highest DCs possilbe MINUS the 3 lvls of spell from not being able to heighten to 9... but then which feat would i swap for heighten?

    The strength and damage i get right now i wouldn't miss a little bit to make up for it with better casting. But then the other question is, where would you stick more offensive spells? Almost all my slots are taken up with my self buffs and what i have now.

    the only thing that would be better would be some better/more reliable AoE spells for when i'm timmy tanking to just keep the hate on me too from an acid cloud/acid rain and FW... maybe some chain lighting here and there to keep the baddies pointed towards me.

    I know it works against the Sneak attack, but that's why you take stunning fist.

    Man.... wall of text.

    So happy i found this discussion.

  13. #13
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    Default idk

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelendren View Post
    What DOES Wraithe form do for your unarmed strikes anyway?
    i think the only thing it does is give you ghost touch. Vampire attack is WAAAY better... you just have to always be prepared to go *poof* if someone throws a searing light at you.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlebrother View Post
    i think the only thing it does is give you ghost touch. Vampire attack is WAAAY better... you just have to always be prepared to go *poof* if someone throws a searing light at you.
    If anything throws searing light at you while in vampire form you are already gone "poof" and all that remains will be some dust.
    Only way that this will not happen is bloat your hp as much as you can and drop form the second you get light damage.
    But that doesnt rescue you, as you will be at ~5-10% hp and without healing after dropping form.
    If you dont KNOW all the quests forget vampire form, you dont need it anyway.
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