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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrtigo View Post
    Suddenly I feel like all builds with "cher" on the end should all go walk into a lava pit.
    Yeah, these "ddo racists" guys definitely could kill the fun in game, so i try to avoid these type of players, as most of us should do it.
    I play with friends even if they have the gimpiest gimp toon ever in ddo history - it just doesn't matter for me. What kind of fun is that... when you decline a friend just because his toon's weird build?

    So much hate about some character builds... when the only thing matters the player behind that character.
    I guess OP is not your server's favourite player... True, his build is not unique or a fresh one, and bardchers are in game for a long time, but as I mentioned, the player matters, not the build. If anyone doesn't like to group with OP, it shouldn't be the fault of the bardcher builds.

  2. #42
    Community Member Spartywinz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    If you lack knowledge of gameplay and end up playing a bardcher, don't talk about it, at all. It makes you look dumb

    What does a large girl, a moped and a bardcher have in common?

    ˙ǝǝs spuǝıɹɟ ɹnoʎ ʇǝן ʇ,uop ʇnq ǝpıɹ oʇ unɟ :ɹǝʍsuɐ

  3. #43

    Cool Hi welcome to the conversation....

    Quote Originally Posted by Yalina View Post
    Yeah, these "ddo racists" guys definitely could kill the fun in game, so i try to avoid these type of players, as most of us should do it.
    I play with friends even if they have the gimpiest gimp toon ever in ddo history - it just doesn't matter for me. What kind of fun is that... when you decline a friend just because his toon's weird build?

    So much hate about some character builds... when the only thing matters the player behind that character.
    I guess OP is not your server's favourite player... True, his build is not unique or a fresh one, and bardchers are in game for a long time, but as I mentioned, the player matters, not the build. If anyone doesn't like to group with OP, it shouldn't be the fault of the bardcher builds.
    You know I am the person who builds toons named koopa because I had a warforged wizard who while wearing a elfcrafted docent suddenly to me looked like Magikoopa from Mario games.

    Yes I am the unusual build hater obviously I am the guy still playing my wf tank who won't build a fleshie version because I don't want to be a part of the you must have 324,533% healing amp crowd. My only hate on the OP is his constant drive to seek attention for himself in places he's not wanted like a certain channel where people gogogo to be rolled again, or the forums where he stated previously "I'm not going to share my build I don't want copy cats" to ZOMG I can cure myself for 300 I'm the bestest.

    As for my comment about "chers" I personally at this point think the "cher" has been played out and we've all realized Manyshot is still as powerful now as it was previously if not better due to the changes to point blank shot and fury and if they ever fix it Combat Archery. I've run with many weird builds, Paly's with repeaters, rogues with great axes, whatever Gunga is running at any time and some guy named Bigjunk who dies so much the Soturi award is in danger of being renamed.

    So I'll keep playing my non fleshie toons the OP will keep telling us his 18fvs/2mnk ultimate healer build is ultimate and bardchers are the best and still no one will tell us what a Two Handed Chrucher is.

    Bowserkoopa,

    I'm a hater apparently and I figure I might as well do it right, I hate all of you people killing the innocent badguys in this game roll up a 6 con rogue or a Wiz/Sorc so that the mobs can win.

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    You attempt to roll versus sarcasm. You roll a 19 (-50). Save failure!
    Sarcasm, indeed I missed that. So you were being sarcastic when you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    Sparty is Crippey? You mean that? I know who hates the Bardchers, it is several people from 3 (or 4?). Do I honestly look like I care what these guys think of bardchers? I have more than enough people to run my stuff with...
    You meant something like:

    Of course Sparty is Crippey. Why are you telling me that? I don't know who all hates bardchers, but it is a lot of people from many many different guilds/channels/servers. Don't you see how very much I care what everyone thinks about my build!? That's because I can't get people to run with me.
    Either you don't know what sarcasm is, or you've started making sense.

  5. #45
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    And since he is going str based with a starting Cha of 12....tell me again how that is the "best CC" for a bard...IPS missing so many things wrong that make this build possibly fun to level to 20 but EE out of range....
    Everything doesnt line up in a single file line simply because the bard has IPS.

    A bard with a starting 12 cha can still get to 70s easily for fascinate, and push it even further if they want, in order to get CC that only fails 5% of the time. Why dump more into CC when once its at the level of no fail (5% fail) each new perform mod is basically wasted. Str is the better option - better damage, melee without needing to add feats or use specific cha based weapons.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #46
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Everything doesnt line up in a single file line simply because the bard has IPS.

    A bard with a starting 12 cha can still get to 70s easily for fascinate, and push it even further if they want, in order to get CC that only fails 5% of the time. Why dump more into CC when once its at the level of no fail (5% fail) each new perform mod is basically wasted. Str is the better option - better damage, melee without needing to add feats or use specific cha based weapons.
    I am glad you know so much about EE
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  7. #47
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    I am glad you know so much about EE
    The quests play the same way they do on EN and EH, theres just less margin of error. It doesnt make the quests more difficult, just more time consuming, due to needing to beat down much higher HP totals that resist spells more often. The AI is just as stupid on normal as it is on elite. The difference? Run forward and swing doesnt work as a strategy like it does on the other 2 difficulties. The issue? People got so used to being able to run forward and swing and not needing any more strategy over the years, that they attempt to presume that actually formulating and using strategy is somehow difficult to do, and thus, they toss around the term EE like its an elitist club that you dont belong to if you disagree with them. Hilarious.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #48
    Community Member Spartywinz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    EE like its an elitist club that you dont belong to if you disagree with them.
    I'm not only a member, I'm the president!

  9. #49
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The quests play the same way they do on EN and EH, theres just less margin of error. It doesnt make the quests more difficult, just more time consuming, due to needing to beat down much higher HP totals that resist spells more often. The AI is just as stupid on normal as it is on elite. The difference? Run forward and swing doesnt work as a strategy like it does on the other 2 difficulties. The issue? People got so used to being able to run forward and swing and not needing any more strategy over the years, that they attempt to presume that actually formulating and using strategy is somehow difficult to do, and thus, they toss around the term EE like its an elitist club that you dont belong to if you disagree with them. Hilarious.

    And this shows exactly what I mean. The quests do not play the same way....Go into an EE ( I dare you! ) and try to run it like you run EN...Go ahead I'll wait...DING! Oh back already?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  10. #50
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    And this shows exactly what I mean. The quests do not play the same way....Go into an EE ( I dare you! ) and try to run it like you run EN...Go ahead I'll wait...DING! Oh back already?
    Been running EE since it was a difficulty. The quests do play the same way. The mobs have the same AI, the traps are in the same spots, and the....

    The difference is the arbitrarily high increases to DC needed, HP the mobs have, and damage dealt. The same strategies can be used to defeat any difficulty - people just dont use them on difficulties they can steamroll, which is everything but EE nowdays. Ive bluff pulled EE GH quests with the same success (100%) as I can bluffpull the same quests on other difficulties - the one difference is the bluff score needed, something any decently built bard can handle.

    What youre doing here is the following.

    1. Disagree.
    2. Imply person youre disagreeing with has never run EE.
    3. ???
    4. Profit, in entertainment value.

    This game has seen its fair share of this kind of argumentation.

    2006. Shows how much you know about blackguards in TS. (back when to-hit mattered and ac was absolute)
    2007. Shows how much you know about elite sands.
    2008. Shows how much you know about the shroud, elite VOD. (lots of mana pot buy ins for groups then)
    2009. Shows how much you know about epics. (yeah like mass hold + autocrit was hard)
    2010. Shows how much you know about elite TOD.
    2011. Shows how much you know about elite LOB.
    2012. Shows how much you know about EE.

    Theres always been a buzzword imaginary measuring stick that forumites can imply those they disagree with dont know anything about. While this certainly does indicate something, its not what you think it indicates.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-26-2013 at 04:40 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrtigo View Post
    I'm a hater apparently and I figure I might as well do it right, I hate all of you people killing the innocent badguys in this game roll up a 6 con rogue or a Wiz/Sorc so that the mobs can win.
    Well, conquest bonus >>> devious bonus, so, if xp is important, sadly, those mobs must die.

    Anyway, sorry if I was mean, I play on a different server, and I don't see much hate there. Archers, battle clerics, caster fvs without mass heals, doesnt matter these days... or anymore. Yeah, not long ago I was in an elite Shroud on barbarian, part 4, I was running to Harry, then I realized, I was the only melee hitting him, rangers, fighter (AA), monk (AA) all around, it was a nice *** moment, then, i just laughed for a minute or so.

    btw, what's this EE is so hard thing? I know, it's tough on a toon with 0 destinies, or in a useless destiny, but they are not that bad. Yeah, I saw some EE Tor with the message to link electric absorb item, but usually there are pugs all the time for EE quests.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalina View Post
    Well, conquest bonus >>> devious bonus, so, if xp is important, sadly, those mobs must die.

    Anyway, sorry if I was mean, I play on a different server, and I don't see much hate there. Archers, battle clerics, caster fvs without mass heals, doesnt matter these days... or anymore. Yeah, not long ago I was in an elite Shroud on barbarian, part 4, I was running to Harry, then I realized, I was the only melee hitting him, rangers, fighter (AA), monk (AA) all around, it was a nice *** moment, then, i just laughed for a minute or so.

    btw, what's this EE is so hard thing? I know, it's tough on a toon with 0 destinies, or in a useless destiny, but they are not that bad. Yeah, I saw some EE Tor with the message to link electric absorb item, but usually there are pugs all the time for EE quests.
    Epic Elite or EE is only as hard as the quest was difficult to begin with combined with just how much the devs put the multiplier to HP's, DC's, Saves, Damage etc. Most EE quest hardly change the AI occasionally give mobs new spells but over all every EE is just like the quest you ran on EH only everything has been unleashing their inner hulk rage.

    Personally I still await the day that the mobs do not all share 6 int and the common sense of a brick wall.

    Bowserkoopa,

    I think there should be a DDO holiday where we all go visit all the quest and wipe at the boss just to see if it makes their morale improve.

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalina View Post
    Well, conquest bonus >>> devious bonus, so, if xp is important, sadly, those mobs must die.

    Anyway, sorry if I was mean, I play on a different server, and I don't see much hate there. Archers, battle clerics, caster fvs without mass heals, doesnt matter these days... or anymore. Yeah, not long ago I was in an elite Shroud on barbarian, part 4, I was running to Harry, then I realized, I was the only melee hitting him, rangers, fighter (AA), monk (AA) all around, it was a nice *** moment, then, i just laughed for a minute or so.

    btw, what's this EE is so hard thing? I know, it's tough on a toon with 0 destinies, or in a useless destiny, but they are not that bad. Yeah, I saw some EE Tor with the message to link electric absorb item, but usually there are pugs all the time for EE quests.
    You are wrong, mentionned player is in the servers least liked guild. That guild, along with like 5-10 of their friends have a problem with me, the rest of the server, has a problem with em. It's not because they troll the forums with a few that the tables turn
    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    You are wrong, mentionned (sic) player is in the servers least liked guild. That guild, along with like 5-10 of their friends have a problem with me, the rest of the server, has a problem with em.
    How lucky for "the rest of the server" that you are here to speak for them. And how lucky for you that the opinions of the rest of the server happen to be exactly the same as your opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    To everyone, if you already have me on /squelch, or I have you on /squelch, then I won't give a **** about your biased opinion, at all.
    Although there is a chance that something other than luck is responsible for your very convenient conclusions.

  15. #55
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Been running EE since it was a difficulty. The quests do play the same way. The mobs have the same AI, the traps are in the same spots, and the....

    The difference is the arbitrarily high increases to DC needed, HP the mobs have, and damage dealt. The same strategies can be used to defeat any difficulty - people just dont use them on difficulties they can steamroll, which is everything but EE nowdays. Ive bluff pulled EE GH quests with the same success (100%) as I can bluffpull the same quests on other difficulties - the one difference is the bluff score needed, something any decently built bard can handle.

    What youre doing here is the following.

    1. Disagree.
    2. Imply person youre disagreeing with has never run EE.
    3. ???
    4. Profit, in entertainment value.

    This game has seen its fair share of this kind of argumentation.

    2006. Shows how much you know about blackguards in TS. (back when to-hit mattered and ac was absolute)
    2007. Shows how much you know about elite sands.
    2008. Shows how much you know about the shroud, elite VOD. (lots of mana pot buy ins for groups then)
    2009. Shows how much you know about epics. (yeah like mass hold + autocrit was hard)
    2010. Shows how much you know about elite TOD.
    2011. Shows how much you know about elite LOB.
    2012. Shows how much you know about EE.

    Theres always been a buzzword imaginary measuring stick that forumites can imply those they disagree with dont know anything about. While this certainly does indicate something, its not what you think it indicates.
    Ok Chai, I understand what you are saying here, My point is that tactics are needed in EE, Nowhere else in the game is it needed like in EE. When people on the Forums start saying "Oh I run it just like I run EH", you can tell who has been there and who hasn't most of the time.

    You can steamroll the rest of the content but if you try to run EE that way you will fail miserably.

    As far as this build is concerned I will believe it when I see it....
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    Ok Chai, I understand what you are saying here, My point is that tactics are needed in EE, Nowhere else in the game is it needed like in EE. When people on the Forums start saying "Oh I run it just like I run EH", you can tell who has been there and who hasn't most of the time.

    You can steamroll the rest of the content but if you try to run EE that way you will fail miserably.

    As far as this build is concerned I will believe it when I see it....
    I will explain this much, if that doesn't help hit me up ingame.

    For EE solo, the bardcher has some combo's that wotk extremely well to kill both trash mobs and bosses.
    Fury of the wild
    Twists: Pin
    Either trap skills (for EE traps)//Stay Frosty
    What works incredibly well to kill 95% of the trash mobs, is fascinate (Enthrall, music of dead, music of makers), they all stop moving => Pin, they are 16 seconds helpless => Melee DPS the mobs down.
    Orange nameds: Overwhelming force => Manyshot, including a pin, and if needed an adren (or 2)
    Red nameds: Unbridled fury + manyshot
    Mobs immune to whatever from of bardic CC: Put displacement up, let them attack you, pin em then. Else an unbridled manyshot. I never encountered a quest on EE where more than like 20% of mobs being immune to it.
    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  17. #57
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    Ok Chai, I understand what you are saying here, My point is that tactics are needed in EE, Nowhere else in the game is it needed like in EE. When people on the Forums start saying "Oh I run it just like I run EH", you can tell who has been there and who hasn't most of the time.

    You can steamroll the rest of the content but if you try to run EE that way you will fail miserably.

    As far as this build is concerned I will believe it when I see it....
    Q, the build does work if a good player is behind the keyboard.

    I have not run with Kevin before, so I cannot say he can or cannot run EE.

    I did a Pug EE Chronoscope with Gunga as a celebration for him coming back to Ghallanda from Khyber. Really, I have come to learn that 1 to 2 really good players can drag 4 to10 not so good players through about all content.

    Sad thing is...those 4 to10 bad players think they "did EE" even though they were riding coattails of others.

    I will say this...a 12XXX/6RNG/2ROG can pretty much stomp ALL Heroic quests.
    You can get traps...
    You have UMD
    You have manyshot
    You have at least ITWF
    You have Sprint Boost (get outta jail free card)
    You have Evasion

    You ever run with Ecclipse? He has made some weird "Battle-Wizards" 12WIZ/6RNG/2ROG that were silly strong for his sprint from 1-18.

    Is this type of build optimal for EE? Sometimes.

    Like ya said though...its the bragging by Kevin that is turning people off.

    Anyway, catchya in game man
    Last edited by Bacab; 03-27-2013 at 03:50 AM.
    Bacab Warforged 18 Arty (Active) Hjealer Dwarven Battle Cleric 10CLR/1FTR
    Atropine Human 11 WIZ/1ROG (Active)
    Member of THACO on Ghallanda

  18. #58
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    Q, the build does work if a good player is behind the keyboard.

    I have not run with Kevin before, so I cannot say he can or cannot run EE.

    I did a Pug EE Chronoscope with Gunga as a celebration for him coming back to Ghallanda from Khyber. Really, I have come to learn that 1 to 2 really good players can drag 4 to10 not so good players through about all content.

    Sad thing is...those 4 to10 bad players think they "did EE" even though they were riding coattails of others.

    I will say this...a 12XXX/6RNG/2ROG can pretty much stomp ALL Heroic quests.
    You can get traps...
    You have UMD
    You have manyshot
    You have at least ITWF
    You have Sprint Boost (get outta jail free card)
    You have Evasion

    You ever run with Ecclipse? He has made some weird "Battle-Wizards" 12WIZ/6RNG/2ROG that were silly strong for his sprint from 1-18.

    Is this type of build optimal for EE? Sometimes.

    Like ya said though...its the bragging by Kevin that is turning people off.

    Anyway, catchya in game man
    Those were my thought exactly, Heroic np,, EE maybe not so much...Hence why I called it a TR trap earlier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  19. #59
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    ...theres just less margin of error. It doesnt make the quests more difficult...
    Quoted for comedy.

  20. #60
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    EE quests are routinely steam-rolled.

    My point? I don't have any, but neither does anyone else in this thread.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

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