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  1. #41
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    Sorry, got another Monkcher question: Would Whirling Steel Strike and OTWF be bad investments, for when the monk has to melee? I know it costs a couple feats, but I haven't seen very many attractive shortshorts (Ninja Spy), and it takes several monk levels before handwraps are doing solid damage.

    Also, for a Half Elf Monkcher (32 point builds), I was thinking 14 STR, 16 Dex, 14 CON, 16 WIS?

    Thanks again for all the advice.

  2. #42
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Sorry, got another Monkcher question: Would Whirling Steel Strike and OTWF be bad investments, for when the monk has to melee? I know it costs a couple feats, but I haven't seen very many attractive shortshorts (Ninja Spy), and it takes several monk levels before handwraps are doing solid damage.

    Also, for a Half Elf Monkcher (32 point builds), I was thinking 14 STR, 16 Dex, 14 CON, 16 WIS?

    Thanks again for all the advice.
    Yes. Very bad. Very very bad. Very very very very bad.

    Go with handwraps all the way. With the extra attack speed, even if you aren't getting full fist damage progression, handwraps still outdps your other options, especially since more attacks = faster ki generation. When you put stunning fist in the equation (especially considering you have high wisdom), there's really no reason to do longswords/shortswords.

    For starting stats, your outline should be fine, as long as you remember these key points:

    - GTWF requires 17 base dex
    - IPS requires 19 base dex
    - Master of Mountains (monk enhancement) requires 16 base con

    So you might want to get a +3 dex tome from running your capped toons, or get a +2 tome and use 1 level up point in dex.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    Yes. Very bad. Very very bad. Very very very very bad.

    Go with handwraps all the way. With the extra attack speed, even if you aren't getting full fist damage progression, handwraps still outdps your other options, especially since more attacks = faster ki generation. When you put stunning fist in the equation (especially considering you have high wisdom), there's really no reason to do longswords/shortswords.

    For starting stats, your outline should be fine, as long as you remember these key points:

    - GTWF requires 17 base dex
    - IPS requires 19 base dex
    - Master of Mountains (monk enhancement) requires 16 base con

    So you might want to get a +3 dex tome from running your capped toons, or get a +2 tome and use 1 level up point in dex.
    Excellent. Thanks for the quick reply. I'll drop the WSS idea, but it is a shame that the feat is no good.

    Yes, by the time I need IPS and GTWF I will have 19 Dex from a + 3 tome. So I assume, since I will eventually be using 10K stars, that all level ups should go into WIS?

  4. #44
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Excellent. Thanks for the quick reply. I'll drop the WSS idea, but it is a shame that the feat is no good.

    Yes, by the time I need IPS and GTWF I will have 19 Dex from a + 3 tome. So I assume, since I will eventually be using 10K stars, that all level ups should go into WIS?
    It depends. Some monkchers go for overwhelming critical. If you're going for that, you need at least 23 base str (I wouldn't do that on a first-lifer though). If you're not doing that, put all your level-ups into wis as you said to power your 10k stars.
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  5. #45
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    The early-entry build is usually 11 ranger / 6 or 7 monk so the ranger can subsidize your feats. You can do that with a DEX of 13 as the only requirement (for Dodge for Ninja Spy 1).

    Fighter vs Arti - both are valid. Fighter gets you +1 DC on stunning fist and +1 STR, essentially. Arti gets you UMD and traps (including the assumption from everyone that you'll handle them all) - so if you go that route, put aside space for the trap gear.
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  6. #46
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    It depends. Some monkchers go for overwhelming critical. If you're going for that, you need at least 23 base str (I wouldn't do that on a first-lifer though). If you're not doing that, put all your level-ups into wis as you said to power your 10k stars.
    Just how well do monkchers perform without maxing wisdom? I've never made one but would like to try it. I've heard that 40 wisdom pretty consistently produces multiple arrows. I can't really see how that would be possible to get before epic levels. How do monkchers function in heroic content? Let's say i only have a wisdom of 32. That's actually pretty high for heroic on a class that needs any other stats. Do monkchers not even bother with archery before level 20?

  7. #47
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Just how well do monkchers perform without maxing wisdom? I've never made one but would like to try it. I've heard that 40 wisdom pretty consistently produces multiple arrows. I can't really see how that would be possible to get before epic levels. How do monkchers function in heroic content? Let's say i only have a wisdom of 32. That's actually pretty high for heroic on a class that needs any other stats. Do monkchers not even bother with archery before level 20?
    Manyshot is still Manyshot.

    My experience with the Monkcher was that the ranged worked - but then again, so did a hot Wisdom and stunning fist. I got into ruts where I essentially forgot about the bow and just beat everything up until I got to the boss, then alternated.

    16 WIS + 2 tome + 5 levels + 2 boat + 6 item + 2 monk +2 stance +1 racial = 36 easily enough

    You also get your AA abilities delayed - slaying arrows and all that. You're still a manyshot dude early on, but the feats and the like don't happen until later.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    there's really no reason to do longswords/shortswords.
    Other than looking pretty cool.

    I have a multi-monksplash-life character that uses longswords with WSS. It does okay, but in no way do they compete with handwraps for damage output.

    Just for fun, mostly.

  9. #49
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Manyshot is still Manyshot.

    My experience with the Monkcher was that the ranged worked - but then again, so did a hot Wisdom and stunning fist. I got into ruts where I essentially forgot about the bow and just beat everything up until I got to the boss, then alternated.

    16 WIS + 2 tome + 5 levels + 2 boat + 6 item + 2 monk +2 stance +1 racial = 36 easily enough

    You also get your AA abilities delayed - slaying arrows and all that. You're still a manyshot dude early on, but the feats and the like don't happen until later.
    My only concern would be the low strength. I have a rogue/ranger archer who is dex based, with relatively low strength. She gets gobs of sneak attack damage, though. She has a dex similar to the wisdom you have here. Without sneak attack the damage, both archery and melee would utterly suck.

    i have a regular monk that i haven't played much, with a sort of balanced wisdom and strength. Probably end up putting all level ups into dex, which means he will probably top out at 22 strength unbuffed. Let's face it, that's going to be some piddly damage. I'll try to take advantage of the other things monks can do.

    I'm also interested in making a bowbarian and a kensei archer. I'm not looking at endgame builds, they would be passing tr lives. So, i'm more concerned with how they do in heroic, and maybe a bit of destiny leveling. Would those actually be a better fit for me than a monkcher given these conditions?

  10. #50
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Just how well do monkchers perform without maxing wisdom? I've never made one but would like to try it. I've heard that 40 wisdom pretty consistently produces multiple arrows. I can't really see how that would be possible to get before epic levels. How do monkchers function in heroic content? Let's say i only have a wisdom of 32. That's actually pretty high for heroic on a class that needs any other stats. Do monkchers not even bother with archery before level 20?
    10k stars gets weaker, manyshot gets stronger. I said, and I maintain, that I wouldn't do it on a first-lifer. A 3rd+ lifer could start with 16 wis/str, have +4 tomes on both and put 3 points in wis and 3 in str, and be 1 or 2 brackets behind on wisdom.

    10k stars at lower wis isn't too inspiring... but again, you probably won't even have 10k stars until level 12 (if you do the ranger levels first for twf feats), so it's mostly viable at the point you get it, and you can get some pretty hot wis at that point. It doesn't get strictly stronger than HWs until you get pinion, I guess.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 03-25-2013 at 07:18 AM.
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  11. #51
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Fighter gets you +1 DC on stunning fist
    I'm pretty sure you need stunning BLOW to take that enhancement.
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  12. #52
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    Monkcher starting with 14 STR, + 2 Tome, + 6 gear, + Misc might get up to 22-24 STR. I have a couple spare feats in my build still (at 15 and 18). Might Power Attack be a good idea for when he's using the handwraps, or can you not have Power Attack and another needed stance active at the same time? Also, might he start missing a lot? (This is 6 Ranger, 2 Fighter, 12 Monk build.)

    Also, which Epic Destiny do you suggest starting in?
    Last edited by stefferweffer; 03-25-2013 at 08:43 AM.

  13. #53
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    I'm pretty sure you need stunning BLOW to take that enhancement.
    Which you take, as you have spare feats.
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  14. #54
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    i have a regular monk that i haven't played much, with a sort of balanced wisdom and strength. Probably end up putting all level ups into dex, which means he will probably top out at 22 strength unbuffed. Let's face it, that's going to be some piddly damage. I'll try to take advantage of the other things monks can do.
    I wouldn't ever suggest putting points into DEX over WIS or STR.

    The reason I liked the Ranger 11 / Monk 7 / Fighter 2 split for a first life is I could go (essentially)

    DEX 11 - 3 points
    WIS 16 -10 points
    CON 14 - 6 points
    STR 16 - 10 points
    ... and still have 3 points left over. I ended up going w/ a slightly higher DEX and going Rogue dilettante.

    16 base STR + 2 boat + 2 tome + 2 rage + 1 fighter + 7 item + rams (I used brawling once I hit 20) = 32 STR as soon as I hit cap (-2 if I was in Water stance)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Might Power Attack be a good idea for when he's using the handwraps, or can you not have Power Attack and another needed stance active at the same time?
    If you're asking whether monks can have power attack active while in a monk stance, yes they can.

    Not sure what other needed stance there would be while using handwraps.

  16. #56
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Which you take, as you have spare feats.
    No, you don't. Taking stunning blow on a monkcher with 40ish strength (probably less) is beyond retarded. You don't have spare feats on a monkcher to burn feats nilly-willy like that. If you end up with spare feats, there's a number of better options.
    Last edited by DarkForte; 03-25-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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  17. #57
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    No, you don't. Taking stunning blow on a monkcher with 40ish strength (probably less) is beyond retarded. You don't have spare feats on a monkcher to burn feats nilly-willy like that. If you end up with spare feats, there's a number of better options.
    Meh, maybe now. There certainly weren't back when I did this, though Power Critical and Precision have been updated since.

    Like I said, he's a Bard now. Ultimately, underwhelmed by 10k stars compared to both Manyshot and Stunning Fist.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

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