Originally Posted by

**Loriac**
Hmm, seems we're all using different methodologies in this calculation. I did a back of the envelope calculation in excel, with the following assumptions:

Pinion - 3.5w (i.e. including PBS), +8 and wailing, with 50 str assumed, seeker +14 (+10 from the bow, +4 exceptional), 500 on vorpals, and 72 shots / min normal single arrow fire rate, AA, 3xranger PL, 3xmonk PL, +4 artifact bonus, +5 dream visor bonus

Celestia - 2.5w, +8 and supreme good, with 60 str assumed, seeker +12 (+8 from nether grasps, +4 exceptional), power attack 5, 14 on crit from radiance, 50 on vorpals from suburst and fiery detonation (mobs assumed to make all saves vs. these effects as the DCs are very low for EE content), Tempest III (including 5% double strike), 3xMonk PL, +4 artifact bonus, +5 dream visor bonus

Balizarde - 2.5w, +8 and phelbotomizing, 60 str, seeker +12, power attack 5, Tempest III, 3xMonk PL, +4 artifact bonus, +5 dream visor bonus

Results:

Pinion - 39,900 over 120s (adjusted to 51,900 over 120s as noted below)

Balizarde x2 - 56,750 over 120s

Celestia x2 - 45,000 over 120s

These numbers don't include archers focus or IPS. Assuming that archers focus is a straight multiplier of +30% (I'm not sure if it only multiplies base damage, or total damage), we get 51,900 over 120s for Pinion when in archer's focus mode, which is obviously applicable to boss fights. We can treat damage vs trash mobs as being probably a further 10-20% higher assuming that 50% of shots fired hit 2+ mobs. In the case of IPS, +30% damage adjustment is the correct lower bound, as if you feel you're hitting 2+mobs less than 30% of the time, you should simply switch to precise shot mode.

These numbers align better with my expectations than the numbers in the OP. On mobs with DR, I think the correct comparison is Pinion vs. Celestia, i.e. ranged is better than melee vs. bosses, and better vs trash (due to IPS). As has been stated by other posters in this thread, pinion should be assumed to break dr due to the ease of using metallic ammo.

On mobs without dr, balizarde looks much better than pinion on bosses on raw numbers, but factoring in archer's focus brings ranged back to within 10% of melee; meanwhile, IPS probably makes them the two styles a wash vs trash provided the AA can line up 2+ mobs 50% of the time.

In truth, str is probably being overstated here for a pure ranger tempest III, but conversely ram's might does add +2 on top, so the 60 str is really 56 str + ram's might. Similarly, I suspect that str is understated for a str based AA but about right for a wis based one (again, its really 46 str + ram's might to get to +20 mod from str).

Epic destinies are harder to calculate, but assuming FotW, my qualitative assessment is as follows: under normal trash fighting use, melee damage gets more of a boost as i. overwhelming force will render mobs helpless and vulnerable to more damage; and ii. adrenaline will regen faster for melee due to greater number of swings.

When in unbridled fury mode however, pinion damage will be much higher than that from balizarde. Assuming a fully stacked archer's focus at that point, and 25% damage boost on top, my suspicion is that on bosses melee will at best come out equal to ranged, but in all likelihood ranged will have more damage.

Edit: a further point re: dr - if a melee twf weapon doesn't break dr, the impact on overall dps is much greater than for ranged, due to the much higher rates of attack; the ratio is roughly 2 melee swings: 1 arrow fired, meaning that any given dr if not broken has twice as much impact on melee.

Roughly speaking, you'd subtract 275xDR from the 120s total damage for ranged, and 500xDR from the total for melee. In other words, if you encounter dr of 20+ per hit, you should switch from balizarde to celestia based on these numbers. At a DR of 20 which celestia breaks but pinion doesn't, the two weapons will be equal assuming archer's focus.

In other words, DR strongly favors ranged (because pinion + the right ammo will break almost all DR in the game anyway).

Similarly, fortification strongly favors ranged due to precision being a no cost stance (I think you can still be in archer's focus mode with precision up) whereas melee loses 5 damage per hit from switching off power attack.