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  1. #1
    Community Member crabjuice's Avatar
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    Default Yippee-Ki-Yay: 15 Paladin ~ 3 ranger ~ 2 monk

    There has been a lot of discussion regarding paladins lately, a class that has met with much criticism. It seems to have inspired some clever builders to create paladins that are effective through all stages of the game. This is fortunate for me as I had been looking at the paladin class longingly when I left DDO several years ago. Probably because I had been playing a TWF FvS on a first life and found myself spread a little thin in the later stages of the game. Back then it seemed to me that the paladin was better suited as a TWF melee character than the FvS with a bit of magic and group support in the mix. I also noticed that it was much easier to build this with at least one past life to help with the heavy stat requirements of divine might and TWF.

    So I returned to the game and capped my first project the ninja assassin. I discovered the Angel of Death build by Arlathen and knew my chance had come to play a Paladin. Tribute to Demon Slayer on Neversummer in Neverwinter Nights who gave me the itch to try this class. I was a little discouraged by the reports of poor performance by pallies at endgame but also anxious to give it a try. I put together some leveling gear, grabbed the shadowdancer destiny and TRed into a half-elf Paladin with the Rogue Dilettante.

    While I leveled I kept an eye on the pally discussions, most notably the paladin dps? thread and Symerith's resulting Pyrene's endgame paladin. I had originally planned to go for a pure paladin with overwhelming crit at 24, basically a slightly adjusted version of Arlathen's given that I did not have his gear (khopeshes in particular). The reports of the Shadow Dancer destiny being lackluster for all but Rogues and Arties made me start to question the direction my paladin was taking. It didn't help that the resounding opinion of pally destiny selection seemed to be for Fury of the Wild and its tremendous synergy with exalted smite.

    By level 15 I had acquired my first U17 Deathnip and, while it fit with the Angel of Death theme, I knew I'd be making my way to FoTW, the massive smites were too good. Special thanks to Curried, an incredibly generous guildmate, for his help with the Tome: binding pages.

    I now had a choice to make. Feats were tight which made me certain I'd have to break the pure pally. I had several options between 18p/2x and 15p/3x/2x splits. 18 paladin gives me my precious exhaulted smite IV and access to tier 3 prestiges. The 15 split gives me potentially more feats. At first it looked like the 18 paladin / 2 monk would win but then I realized that I could take Many-shot for some ranged burst and grab the die-hard feat as Loriac suggested in the pally dps thread.

    So the feat used to differentiate this build from Symerith's gave it its name. The Yippee-Ki-Yay was born. Here is what he looks like,

    Half-Elf Lawful Good 15 Paladin / 3 ranger / 2monk
    PROS:
    • Paladin Divine Grace (saves) with Evasion
    • Zeal
    • Lay on Hands
    • Exhaulted Smite III
    • Divine Might III
    • Full TWF with Overwhelming Crit
    • HOD II: Immune to level drain ~ Healing Amp ~ Restoration
    • Many Shot w/ improved crit range
    • Makes use of piercing weapons in TR cache

    CONS:
    • Loss of 5% movement speed, light finishers, and healing amp from 3 levels of monk
    • Situational range burst with no Improved Precise Shot
    • No Precision which could have been used during many-shot burst or to negate fort reduction of crits and sneak attacks
    • No Meta-magics to increase survivability or length of paladin dps spells
    • No access to Tier 3 prestiges or final tier of Divine might and Exhalted Smite
    • No capstone to help with DR breaking (capstone isn't as attractive as it could be)


    STATS - 34 points (w/ +4 tomes on previous life)
    Str: 18
    Dex: 14
    Con: 14
    Int: 8
    Wis: 8
    Chr: 14

    Please note that the +3 dex tome kicks in at 11 to qualify for iTWF at level 12. Also the +4 charisma tome kicks in at lvl 15 to qualify for Divine Might 3 at level 19.

    SKILLS (High > Low Priority)
    Concentration
    UMD
    Balance ~ 10
    Bluff
    Tumble ~ 1 for effect

    FEATS / Leveling process
    1.) Ranger (taken first for more skill points): Selected - Point Blank Shot - FE: Giants - HE: Rogue Dilly
    2.) Monk: Power Attack
    3.) Ranger: Cleave ( 2 ranger levels early gets TWF)
    4.) Paladin
    5.) Paladin
    6.) Paladin: Great Cleave
    7.) Paladin
    8.) Paladin
    9.) Paladin: Imp Crit - Pierce
    10.) Paladin
    11.) Paladlin
    12.) Paladin: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    13.) Paladin (10 paladin levels for Divine Might II)
    14.) Monk: Toughness (having evasion at this point in the game is good)
    15.) Paladin: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    16.) Paladin
    17.) Paladin
    18.) Paladin: Many Shot
    19.) Paladin
    20.) Ranger
    21.) Overwhelming Critical
    24.) Improved Crit: Ranged

    ENHANCEMENTS
    Paladin
    HOD II
    Exhalted Smite III
    Divine Might III
    Divine Sacrifice I
    Lay on Hands III
    Extra Smite IV
    P Toughness III
    Resistance of Good I

    Half-Elf / Human
    Rogue Dilly
    Strength
    Versatility IV
    Improved Recovery II

    Extras
    Ranger Sprint Boost
    Monk Animal Path

    GEAR
    *to be updated*
    Notable pieces I'm currently using: Deathnip ~ Parasitic breastplate slotted either +10 reflex or reduced threat

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    Yippee Ki-Yay
    Level 25 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
    (15 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 3 Ranger \ 5 Epic)
    Hit Points: 442
    Spell Points: 341
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 25
    Reflex: 21
    Will: 16
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             18                    29
    Dexterity            14                    18
    Constitution         14                    18
    Intelligence          8                    12
    Wisdom                8                    12
    Charisma             14                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
    
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    Level 21 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
    
    Level 22 (Paladin)
    
    Level 23 (Paladin)
    
    Level 24 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    Level 25 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
    Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
    Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
    Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
    I hope I have given credit where credit is due as I have taken everyone's input and created my version of a TWF dps focused paladin. Thanks for making it this far. To be continued...
    Last edited by crabjuice; 03-22-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like you're getting the short end of the stick by going 3 ranger/2 monk over 2 ranger/3 monk.

    Here's the pro/con's that I see:
    Ranger: Die Hard (don't see any other feats/enhancements you open at 3), 1 will save
    Monk: 5% movement speed bonus if you move on past the parasitic breastplate to a robe/outfit, 10% healing amp, the ability to go light monk and swap to wraps to toss out the light finishers.

    To me, the healing amp outweighs everything in the list there. Even if you keep the parasitic bracer on you're then trading 1 will save to get 10% healing amp (since the parasitic bracer has Die Hard on it already). And movement speed is everything to me...you can't kill things without getting in range first and the faster you move the faster you complete. The light finishers probably wouldn't get much use in-quest but you could equip wraps before you leave each quest to allow you to come in to each one with ki and toss out aligning the heavens before everyone buffs. Just a nice little added perk of that 3rd monk level.

    I really like the build...using the free ranger feats to get to Many Shot makes sense. I just think that last level would be far better in monk than in ranger.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  3. #3
    Community Member crabjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like you're getting the short end of the stick by going 3 ranger/2 monk over 2 ranger/3 monk.

    Monk: 5% movement speed bonus if you move on past the parasitic breastplate to a robe/outfit, 10% healing amp, the ability to go light monk and swap to wraps to toss out the light finishers.

    I really like the build...using the free ranger feats to get to Many Shot makes sense. I just think that last level would be far better in monk than in ranger.
    You are absolutely right regarding the level split. It should be said that the Pyrene build looks to be the stronger one as it makes the best use of the current situation at end-game with respect to THF being less reliant on feats and making the most out of gear.

    I want to at least wear some armor. I know this sounds funny but it's just how I picture the paladin. I mean is he supposed to wear a t-shirt that says, "Trust me, I'm a paladin"?

    For me the movement speed and extra healing amp would be the reason to go with the 3 monk but I already have four enhancements dedicated to it. What I'd really like to discuss is the movement speed does it require robes/wraps? Because I'll definitely be using weapons and at least light armor. I took the 3 ranger because it allows me access to the DoS prestige and eventually I will not be using the parasitic breastplate.

    That brings up another question regarding prestige choice, of the three is tier 2 HOD the superior choice? With Diehard I have the flexibility to test this out after I've capped the character.

    For now I can live without the additional movement speed (biggest deal breaker for me), healing amp and light finishers. Also, at this point I'm cycling divine sacrifice, cleave and great cleave in between refreshes of divine might, divine power and eventually zeal. Adding the light finishers to the mix is going to clutter my ui layout which is a huge negative for me. I do realize how beneficial these can be to a group.

    But, again, you're right -- loss of 3 monk additions are going up at the top of cons list
    Last edited by crabjuice; 03-21-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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  4. #4
    SithDDO Symerith's Avatar
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    Hey!

    I like your adaptation and the fact people are starting to realise they are a very strong melee class

    A couple of things:
    - Last tier of exalted smite doesn't bring much to the table.. 15 levels is a very solid platform, having access to the strongest enhancements/spells
    - What are you planning to do on this build? If it's primarily EH content, it's good as it is. If, on the other hand, you prefer running EE content, the THF version is the best as you are able to pick up Quicken+Empower Healing for a lot of added survivability.

    I also changed the Pyrene a bit (didn't update the main post yet though - Lazy me ) - Going for 14 paladin / 4 ranger / 2 monk. Why? I dropped 3*10% heal. amp to grab +4 saves, more AC/HP/+20PRR and +4 damage. (2 lost from losing divine might III but a gain of +1 (completionist) and +3 ram's might and +2 DoS). 4 ranger means free Precision & DoS prereq (diehard from 3rd ranger level). I took completionist as free feat (stunning blow is the other strong option), as paladins benefits most from it : the usual stuff but also an additionnal divine might & +1 extra bonus to saves). However I lose a lvl 4 spell, so I will just switch from CSW to Zeal depending on what I'm running.

    The 3 monk is nice for the occasionnal light buff... but let's be realistic.. it's not something you would do in game
    EE situation, surrounded by mobs: "Wait. WAIT! I am switching from my light armor to a robe so I can be centered.... *10 seconds later*. Alright, don't hit me, my unarmed DPS sucks, I can't even stun you, but I'm doing it nonetheless... *1 min later*. Alright, here's the 1d4 healing Oh, WAIT! Switching back to my armor."
    It's the kind of ideas you see on the forums but I simply can't imagine such a thing being viable ingame... works great for those unarmed paladin/monk types though.
    Besides the 25% SP lower cost, all the others are of low value..

    Last thing is I played with deathnips on an alt and I kind of got disappointed Citw weapons (cleave for THF, balizarde/nightmare for TWF) are the way to go at this point IMO, 15 PRR is too good to skip for the current EE content.

    Sithali-1 ~ 31/31 Lives ~ Completionist
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  5. #5
    Community Member crabjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symerith View Post
    I like your adaptation and the fact people are starting to realise they are a very strong melee class

    A couple of things:
    - Last tier of exalted smite doesn't bring much to the table.. 15 levels is a very solid platform, having access to the strongest enhancements/spells
    - What are you planning to do on this build?

    The 3 monk is nice for the occasionnal light buff... but let's be realistic.. it's not something you would do in game .

    Last thing is I played with deathnips on an alt and I kind of got disappointed Citw weapons (cleave for THF, balizarde/nightmare for TWF) are the way to go at this point IMO, 15 PRR is too good to skip for the current EE content.
    Thanks!
    To address your points/questions,
    After all the discussion, I agree, 15 paladin is where it's at - good compromise there.
    As far as what I'm planning to do with this build, I'd like to spend some time on it - see some of the more difficult raids and quests at the other end of the spectrum. I'm a bit of an altaholic so I have not truely made a real go on a character yet. I've worked hard on Spektr's identity and playstyle. He's holding my interest so far.
    Goals: TWF (no wraps! I have a monk) and light+ armor on a Paladin platform.

    Regarding the 3 monk, I suspected that was the case but it is so helpful to hear from someone who has experienced it with a similar build.

    Gearwise, I'm nowhere near your level. I've been banking greensteel mats with the intention of filling in gaps, probably goggles, bracers or cloak. Haven't seen anything past shroud yet. I have a ways to go but this is one of the reasons I didn't go the exotic route - I wanted to be flexible with the build/gear as I learn. The deathnip has worked nicely as a bridge to the higher-level gear, especially as I have a lot of piercers in my TR cache.

    I did notice the nightmare and balizard both have keen on each weapon which would free up an Imp: Crit feat. If I eventually picked up the nightmare do you think it would be necessary to slot exotic: bastard sword? With the change to to-hit this probably wouldn't be and issue...
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  6. #6
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like you're getting the short end of the stick by going 3 ranger/2 monk over 2 ranger/3 monk.

    Here's the pro/con's that I see:
    Ranger: Die Hard (don't see any other feats/enhancements you open at 3), 1 will save
    Monk: 5% movement speed bonus if you move on past the parasitic breastplate to a robe/outfit, 10% healing amp, the ability to go light monk and swap to wraps to toss out the light finishers.

    To me, the healing amp outweighs everything in the list there. Even if you keep the parasitic bracer on you're then trading 1 will save to get 10% healing amp (since the parasitic bracer has Die Hard on it already). And movement speed is everything to me...you can't kill things without getting in range first and the faster you move the faster you complete. The light finishers probably wouldn't get much use in-quest but you could equip wraps before you leave each quest to allow you to come in to each one with ki and toss out aligning the heavens before everyone buffs. Just a nice little added perk of that 3rd monk level.

    I really like the build...using the free ranger feats to get to Many Shot makes sense. I just think that last level would be far better in monk than in ranger.
    I also think 3 ranger doesn't add as much as 3 monk under normal circumstances, but the key is that it gives you DoS without having to spend any additional feats (as diehard allows you to qualify). That was the only reason I suggested it back in the paladin dps thread (my original posts in that thread were addressing Symerith's earlier contention in that thread that 15/3/2 were lower dps, whereas my view was that using that split to enable manyshot actually made dps fairly competitive vs. the 18/2 split or the pure).

    I'd also stick with the THF fighting style, despite picking up TWF 'for free' with ranger. I think TWF is too feat intensive vs. THF for what it offers in the current game, particularly on a feat starved paladin. There are however differences of opinion on this one, with many posters looking at exalted smites as being the primary class-based source of dps for a paladin and TWF leverages that better than THF would do.

    On paper I think 15/3Rgr/2M still looks like its the best of the possibilities if you want access to DoS, however I haven't played this build yet and so I'd definitely take Symerith's actual experiences with his build over theorycrafting. Having said that, he is adding in completionist from the change to 14/4/2, and if you don't have access to that feat its possible that the 15/3/2 is still better.

  7. #7
    Community Member Yin's Avatar
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    Frankly the name alone makes the 3 ranger worth it. John mclain would be so proud. Though he is no pally.
    Great thread with intelligent and well thought out comments theoughout. /bump

  8. #8

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    Nice split, and interesting build.

    Glad you gave the Angel of Death a spin, but its real power is realized only in Epic levels with a capped ShadowDancer destiny.

    But.... those new Deathnips are very, very smexy. Exalted Smite 4 with one of those... oh my....
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  9. #9
    Community Member crabjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yin
    Frankly the name alone makes the 3 ranger worth it. John mclain would be so proud.
    Appreciate the bump b-bear. I'd knew you'd get the reference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    Nice split, and interesting build.

    Glad you gave the Angel of Death a spin, but its real power is realized only in Epic levels with a capped ShadowDancer destiny.

    But.... those new Deathnips are very, very smexy. Exalted Smite 4 with one of those... oh my....
    I can't say I really gave the Angel of Death a spin as it takes shape at cap. Thanks for giving me the motivation to finally give the Paladin class a whirl. It looks like you leveled yours with some monk in there as well and then reincarnated. After going pure till about 15, I have to say the bonus feats and added evasion from monk have made a huge difference in the ease at which I can complete quests. I still may give the Angel build a chance, it has got serious style. It is also in a nice position if they ever do make changes to enhancements and destinies.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    This build is wonderful, and I may play it my next life just to see wonderful things happen.
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