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  1. #361
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    The Treasure Tables allow Coin, Gems and Magic Items on a probability basis for each "above average" encounter, not the individual.
    As everything in D&D is probability based, it is always possible that there will be nothing to find in a Treasure Hoard.

    The 10% rule follows that guideline and the suggestion LeadHero is talking about "guarantees" Treasure.
    We use the procedure that IF there is Treasure, each person gets their share of Non-Magic Items. Everyone then gathers around the chest and discusses the Items.

    J
    Heck, in PnP, the DM didn't tell you what you COULD have had if the Treasure Table indicated "Nothing".

    Those that insist they "deserve" a Magic Item for completing a Quest are playing DDO, not D&D. IMO
    The only thing you deserve for completing a Quest is the XP.
    Which published DnD module did you ever play that did not have treasure at the end? Which DnD module have you ever read did not have a single magic item in it? None.

    The concept of an adventure completely devoid of any reward whatsoever is one I have never heard of in any version of DnD I have ever experienced. You can make a compelling argument that DDO treasure tables are skewed too high, but arguing that xps were the only reason players undertook an adventure is simply not true. If you had a rogue character loot was usually the PRIMARY reason you bothered to leave the house. Many times parties were hired by wizards or clerics to find a valuable artifact.

    Everyone always got excited about dividing the loot at the end of a module, and no one ever, ever came away empty handed. I guarantee a DM that pulled that, handing out a big fat goose egg after a module was completed would have been a very lonely DM.

    If eaxh DDO quest is to be treated as a module, your words, then each quest should have some sort of actual reward, just like PnP modules do. There is Monty Haul DnD and there is random encounter treasure table DnD. I do not like either extreme much as they become boring. A well designed adventure has fun, a good story, challenging monsters, AND physical rewards such as gems, gold, and magic items.

    In my opinion the loot rules should be one gauranteed end chest OR end reward (player/group leader choice) per adventure, a gauranteed end reward for any chain, AND a 10% chance to loot each optional chest.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Which published DnD module did you ever play that did not have treasure at the end? Which DnD module have you ever read did not have a single magic item in it? None.
    LOL. You're taking me too literally. The odds of coming away without finding any Magic Items is possible in lower levels, but the chances increase as Levels go up. My statement is meant to seed your mind with doubt. I'm playing with your head.
    Between breakables and 10% of available chests, at least ONE Magic Item will prob be found.


    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    If eaxh DDO quest is to be treated as a module, your words, then each quest should have some sort of actual reward, just like PnP modules do. There is Monty Haul DnD and there is random encounter treasure table DnD. I do not like either extreme much as they become boring. A well designed adventure has fun, a good story, challenging monsters, AND physical rewards such as gems, gold, and magic items.

    In my opinion the loot rules should be one gauranteed end chest OR end reward (player/group leader choice) per adventure, a gauranteed end reward for any chain, AND a 10% chance to loot each optional chest.
    "A well designed adventure has fun, a good story, challenging monsters, AND physical rewards such as gems, gold, and magic items."
    EXACTLY! There will always be Treasure.....Gems, Gold, Magic Items. But there doesn't have to be ALL THREE.
    Please, have some faith in what we are trying to do. The guys that have put up with my ramblings for 18 months now have had a blast so far.

  3. #363
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    That's good to hear. I think we all realize what it will take to play upper level Elite.
    I really feel the 10% rule and using Normal is the long term solution.
    Wait, did you just say the long term solution to playing upper level elite is to play normal? lol

    Okay, the more I think about it the less I like any of our methods so far. The "Potential" and Minimum Level" at a flat rate (x1, x2, x3, whatever) don't scale. They are okay for a while but then must be tweaked as you go along. The 10% rule and no end reward also seems... cheesy? Plus one thing I despise in a game like this is drama. If you are encouraging drama, then perhaps I am in the wrong guild?

    I don't know if there IS a solution that scales well and is SIMPLE. I would like to give this some more thought. Let's get past tomorrow's update first.

  4. #364
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Default 4 mummies down, 1 vampire to go!

    Great job tonight in Tomb of the Immortal Heart. Everyone made it to the end fight against the mummy lord Unas and pounded his dessicated butt into a pile of ashes. He won't be any more use to that fiend Brother Salasso!


    Neither will the mummy Henenu. But it was almost not to be. After breaching the Tomb of the Sanguine Heart and destroying Henunu's "vessels of the faith," STORM was finally ready to face the mummy. STORM had just defeated three of Salasso's mummy servants, so it knew the fourth would be no match for them. What was a match for them, however, was a deadly dual sonic trap. After exercising such caution for most of the quest, the two rogues let their lust for filthy lucre overwhelm them and they neglected to check for traps before approaching the chest. Even Jedial was caught up in the rush for gold! It would be a fatal mistake.


    Before Mansoor could say a word, the two Halfling rogues had pried open the chest and activated hidden sonic traps. DING! DING! DING! went the trolley, and almost the entire STORM crew as well. Mansoor gathered his fallen comrades' soul stones into his pack for moral support and went off to face Henunu alone. After turning and destroying what must have been two dozen rotting zombies and foul barrow wights that guarded the ante-chamber of Henunu's resting place, Mansoor finally cleared the way to the unholy mummy lord. And with little more than his mace, his shield, and his faith, Mansoor stepped into the final chamber to confront Henunu.


    Before he had taken even one step past the threshold of the mummy's resting chamber, Henunu leapt up from his altar and attacked the cleric. Mansoor tried to keep the rabid mummy at bay with searing light, but though the holy light caused damage to the mummy, Henunu was too old and too strong to be destroyed by a simple ray of light, holy or not. Mansoor held up his shield, fending off the mummy's talon like hands. He swung his mace, and let the holy healing power from within him burst forth. Henunu was damaged, but nowhere near defeated. Mansoor jumped back, cast searing light once more, then ducked behind his shield and released his divine burst again. And again. And again. The healing bursts debilitated Henunu to the point where one last searing light from Mansoor's outstretched finger tips finally obliterated the mummy lord's skull and it exploded into powder! The rest of its ragged and charred remains crumbled into ash inside its burial wrapping an instant thereafter.


    Mansoor dragged his fallen comrades from the nightmarish tomb and was able to hire one of the Necropolis caretakers to pack his fellows back to House Phiarlin where they were raised and restored to health. It had come at a high cost, but finally STORM had defeated the last of Brother Salasso's minions and would soon prepare to take on the vampire himself.


    Thanks for all the cheer leading at the end of that one guys. I wasn't sure if Mansoor, without any spell points and only a few bursts left, would be able to finish off Henunu, but he got lucky and we were able to complete the last flagging quest for the Bloody Crypt. Woot!

  5. #365
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post

    I don't know if there IS a solution that scales well and is SIMPLE. I would like to give this some more thought. Let's get past tomorrow's update first.

    Sounds like we agreed on a version of LeadHero's suggestion that we all feel comfortable with and we'll try that for the next month to see how it works out. It feels PnPish to me and we won't have to worry about scaling or have to implement byzantine exceptions to make it work. At least at first glance it doesn't seem like we will.


    We'll see how it goes... if Fedora doesn't rage quite after seeing what the enhancement pass has done to Jedial. Remember, worst case you could always change to a fighter or barbarian.

  6. #366
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Default One correction

    Manoor certainly DID save the day in our second quest last night, but I need to make a single correction to lay blame where it is deserved.

    It was not the halflings that rushed the chest, but Jedial that was careless. I am 95% sure I opened the chest and the poor halflings just happened to be too close when I did.

    Unfortunately during the end fight in that room, I had an incoming long distance phone call. I signalled my daughter to pick it up, as I recognized the number on caller ID (in-laws). She spoke long enough with my FIL until we finished the fight then handed the phone to me. Distracted and in a hurry, I carelessly opened the chest as I said "Hello" on the phone. Sorry guys!

    Also, lest anyone think we breezed through last night's Necro L6 quests on elite, in addition to the three deaths mentioned aboved, we had about 3 deaths that were handled by Jedial's Undying Call, and one near-miss when a member was hit to -9 and then healed by Mansoor.

    Hopefully Percy will be back next week.

  7. #367
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Default Trial Loot Rules

    I believe this is the jist of our discussion last night on handling loot and magic. Please correct me if I am mistaken, or feel free to clarify any points.

    1. We are allowed to use collectables for turn-ins.

    2. We can keep items from breakables.

    3. We accept either valor or expendable end rewards on normal quests. (The only expendable I can think of is pneumonic elixirs).

    4. We open all chests and everyone takes non-equipable items (gold, plat, gems, potions, scrolls. ammo).

    5. All characters roll 1d100. High roll gets the option to:

    • Select a reward of his choice. He can do whatever he wants with his selection (sell, trade, save, use, give away).


    • Decline his reward. The option then passes to the next highest roll. This character then has the same options.


    Added for clarification
    • Once a character selects an item, the chest is closed. It does not continue to pass to the next highest roll.


    All other items are left in the chest.

    6. End rewards for quest chains are allowed.

    We believe this is a good solution and necessary for running quests on elite. We all decided that while the other system works fine, running quests on normal (even at level) makes most mobs too easy and most traps a non-issue. As the plat/gems are only used for buying ammo nd repairing equipment, it will not be an issue. As we will only be getting ONE item per chest, with no guarentee there will be anything worthwhile in the chest for anyone (we seem to see a lot of kamas, bastard swords, docents, and race-required dwarf/half orc/warforged, etc.) we do not believe we will become OP or monty-haul, but we should continue to be competetive with elite level content.

    This will be our method for about 1 month at which time we will evaluate and if necessary, adjust.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 08-19-2013 at 07:11 AM.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    This will be our method for about 1 month at which time we will evaluate and if necessary, adjust.
    Sounds like a plan.

  9. #369
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Manoor certainly DID save the day in our second quest last night,
    Manoor? Is that a Freudian slip? Just cause he was the hero of the moment and not Jed you gotta call the guy cow excrement? Harsh bro!

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    6. End rewards for quest chains are allowed.

    I thought the end rewards go through the same procedure as the chests? That is, we all look at our end rewards, but only one end reward will be chosen and given to the player with the winning roll. So at the end of Sanguine Heart, Manure, Jed, Narc, and Vin would look assess their end rewards, we'd all roll, and winning roll would get to take an item while everyone else takes favor or whatever.

    I thought that is what LeadHero was describing, but maybe I misunderstood?

  11. #371
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Manoor? Is that a Freudian slip? Just cause he was the hero of the moment and not Jed you gotta call the guy cow excrement? Harsh bro!
    Oh man sorry. It really was a typo. My screen goes to light black text on dark gray in IE when posting.

    Hey, I just remembered - that was like a replay of our "Come Out and Slay" adventure when Cadrod was last man standing trying to charm/kill the last 6-7 mobs and end boss in the alley, only this time with better results. lol

  12. #372
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I thought the end rewards go through the same procedure as the chests? That is, we all look at our end rewards, but only one end reward will be chosen and given to the player with the winning roll. So at the end of Sanguine Heart, Manure, Jed, Narc, and Vin would look assess their end rewards, we'd all roll, and winning roll would get to take an item while everyone else takes favor or whatever.

    I thought that is what LeadHero was describing, but maybe I misunderstood?
    Is that what it was? You could be right.

    Narcene, what say ye?

  13. #373
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Is that what it was? You could be right.

    Narcene, what say ye?
    I could be wrong. It's been known to happen. (Like that LR 20+ heart post).

    That's what happens when you stumble through life fat, dumb, and stupid: you're bound to make a mistake once in a while.

  14. #374
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    It was not the halflings that rushed the chest, but Jedial that was careless. I am 95% sure I opened the chest and the poor halflings just happened to be too close when I did.
    The only time rogues are rushing is when there is a back turned. I think that the Owl Wisdom had run out because, I'm ALWAYS watching for the spot at the top of my screen; and didn't get one; and I saw the contents window open as I died. My bad. Mine Mine Mine

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I thought the end rewards go through the same procedure as the chests?
    I like the idea of roll and pick for all the chests. If everyone gets something on the end, that is a little too much gear; maybe when we hit lvl 12 or so.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  15. #375
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    I like the idea of roll and pick for all the chests. If everyone gets something on the end, that is a little too much gear; maybe when we hit lvl 12 or so.
    Not everyone would get something. We would roll again for the end reward just like it was an extra chest. High roll can select something or if nothing is worthwhile, pass the choice on to the next highest roller.

    I am okay with either ONLY taking valor/non-equipable, OR rolling the end reward as if it were a chest.

  16. #376
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    LeadHero,

    Be advised that the rogue mechanic enhancement "Lacerating Shots: Your great crossbow attacks have a 33%/66%/100% chance to put bleed on your enemies" is incorrect and is actually an enhancement that significantly increases how quickly you search and disable traps.

    It's a pretty nice boost.

  17. #377
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    I had to use the free LR to reset Cadrod. The EP eliminated one of his feats (lesser dragon mark) and made another unnecessary (toughness).

    So Cad gained power attack and magical training which is a nice upgrade. Cad was also happy with his choices of new enhancements. Overall, I'm quite happy with how the EP treated Cadrod.

  18. #378
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    LeadHero,

    Be advised that the rogue mechanic enhancement "Lacerating Shots: Your great crossbow attacks have a 33%/66%/100% chance to put bleed on your enemies" is incorrect and is actually an enhancement that significantly increases how quickly you search and disable traps.

    It's a pretty nice boost.
    Looks like this was misreported and the increased search and disable speeds are not tied to that particular enhancement.

  19. #379
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Default Interesting Night

    Well STORM started the new magic item aquisition system (MIAS) last night. It was interesting for two reasons:

    1. There was a +2 LOOT bonus going on.
    2. The quest we did (The Bloody Crypt) had a LOT of chests.

    Still, only a couple of truly useful items were aquired that can be used immediately, as some of the items ended up being too high ML to be used by our characters.

    Also fortunate was the fact that we had no deaths, since Jed no longer has raise dead capability. We also had two clerics along, also fortunate as Percy had to do a quick "pick enhancements" since he had not logged in since the update. This "hurry up" choosing caused the loss of his radiant burst ability, at least temporarily until he can take his time to redo, or wait until he has more AP.

    The quest had no traps, so Narcene and Vinnie's spot/search/disable went untested. Jed's Hunter of the Dead and turn undead with divine light really made him effective at killing stuff.

    It was also fortunate that Jed found the sarcophigus (sp?) with the heart almost immedaitely so we were able to kill that nasty Brother Salasso without a long prelude.

  20. #380
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Well STORM started the new magic item aquisition system (MIAS) last night. It was interesting for two reasons:

    1. There was a +2 LOOT bonus going on.
    2. The quest we did (The Bloody Crypt) had a LOT of chests.

    Still, only a couple of truly useful items were aquired that can be used immediately, as some of the items ended up being too high ML to be used by our characters.

    Also fortunate was the fact that we had no deaths, since Jed no longer has raise dead capability. We also had two clerics along, also fortunate as Percy had to do a quick "pick enhancements" since he had not logged in since the update. This "hurry up" choosing caused the loss of his radiant burst ability, at least temporarily until he can take his time to redo, or wait until he has more AP.

    The quest had no traps, so Narcene and Vinnie's spot/search/disable went untested. Jed's Hunter of the Dead and turn undead with divine light really made him effective at killing stuff.

    It was also fortunate that Jed found the sarcophigus (sp?) with the heart almost immedaitely so we were able to kill that nasty Brother Salasso without a long prelude.

    Jed and Mansoor got to level 8, Percy level 7, and I think Narcene and Vinnie are close to 8.

    What chain are we running next? Sorrow dusk? Blood tide? Did we ever run Delera's yet?

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