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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    .....but with Deathblock and 5 negative energy absorption charges it will practically be a necessity.
    Great, just what I wanted to know.

    First of all, you guys are trying to do something very difficult, play on Elite with restricted Magic Items. I honestly don't think it's going to be very easy at all, but you have a lot of guts trying to do it.

    If you look at Cadrod's load out, it is very easy to see the difference between random found Magic Items and End Rewards and to a lesser extent, Vendor obtained items.
    They are just plain "a cut above".

    It is also clear from reading your comments, your playstyle is focused on Gear. You consider the end rewards when deciding what to Quest. Granted, you HAVE to be like this for Elite, but it's a habit the others are trying to elliminate. (At least in MY company)

    Wednesday Group is only 2 levels above Sunday and except for a couple End rewards obtained early on, no one has any "bound" items, and yet 1 character has an unbound "Deathblock" item, 1 character has a Level VIII Wizardry item, various +3 and +4 Armors and Robes, +10 Disable item, etc, etc.
    The point being, we FIND items with traits the end rewards have, the only difference is they are not wrapped up in one piece of "Gear".

    The Scrolls and Potions are somewhat similar.

    It would be a simple conversion to change your playstyle to Normal Difficulty, but it might take some time for the 2 of you to come to grips with Monsters at Normal. It was for us, but we gradualy adapted by going from Elite to Hard, then to Normal. (Just a few short weeks ago)

    I think it might be amusing and more than a little fun to attempt a Raid, and to further add
    "fun factor" do it with characters at their current levels.
    (we have a 2nd Level Ranger with us that will require protecting)

    I know I'm gonna start some **** with this and I can hear her now yelling at me!

  2. #342
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    double post
    Last edited by Postumus; 08-12-2013 at 08:38 PM.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post

    If you look at Cadrod's load out, it is very easy to see the difference between random found Magic Items and End Rewards and to a lesser extent, Vendor obtained items.
    They are just plain "a cut above".

    At lower levels, yes. The end rewards are generally better, or at least have lower min level requirements with more effects on them than the loot found in quest (except for lacerating items). This starts to change around quest level 9-10. After that most of the end rewards become random junk and the best loot drops in chests within the quest. There are some exceptions for end of chain rewards, but even the best end rewards will drop randomly in the quests themselves by that point.



    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    The point being, we FIND items with traits the end rewards have, the only difference is they are not wrapped up in one piece of "Gear".
    That's an easy position to take when your group gets free mod fort belts and can purchase wands.

    We aren't playing by those rules, so it is natural to plan ahead a bit more. What will we need to succeed at the next level? "We've heard tales of wraiths and ghosts in those crypts, is exploring them a good idea without ghost touch items?" "This NPC said something about a vampire! Will we need holy or silver weapons?!" "Which spells should we take that work best against undead?" And so on.

    To me it is the same type of preparation as in PnP when characters go around the taverns and town asking NPCs for information about the keep on the hill; we're just doing it out of character.


    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Wednesday Group is only 2 levels above Sunday and except for a couple End rewards obtained early on, no one has any "bound" items,


    Intruder, all those 'lacerating' items you guys are using, like Tukcc's composite longbow and Cog's crossbow are bound items. Ktorr's Dueling Schlager is a bound item. They are all BTC. And also some of the most highly sought after lowbie weapons in the game.


    It also looks like at least two of you have the BTA armor Lhor-Tragu's Shadowed Armor from Tangleroot, and some of you still have Korthos gear equipped (early end rewards I guess).


    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    It is also clear from reading your comments, your playstyle is focused on Gear. You consider the end rewards when deciding what to Quest. Granted, you HAVE to be like this for Elite, but it's a habit the others are trying to elliminate. (At least in MY company)

    I personally might be guilty of a bit of meta-gaming by trying to influence the order in which we run quest chains (although I obviously haven't been too successful at it since we still haven't run the Phiarlin chain!), but we've been picking quests by general consensus according to what we think we can handle or what we want to play rather than what the end reward will be. I don't think anyone (except me - and only once or twice) has ever said 'hey, "X" is a possible end reward for this quest, so we should run that!'. Favor has actually played more of a role in quest selection than possible end rewards.


    Finally looking at some Wed THACO characters, I see you guys have MUCH more powerful gear than STORM does.


    At L10, Tukcc has (had) equipped:

    Cloak of Protection +4 (ML7)
    Belt of moderate fort (ML 5)
    +3 Ogre Power Gloves (ML5)
    +2 Battle Plate of Power IV (ML7?)
    +1 Composite Longbow of Lacerating (could be anything from ML2 to ML6. Lets call it ML2)

    That's about 26 ML worth of gear. A STORM member would have to be level eleven to be able to use all that gear.


    At L9, it appears Ktorr has equipped:

    Dueling Schlager (ML6)
    +5 longsword (ML9)
    Blindness ward goggles of the eagle (ML5)
    Lhor-Tragu's Shadowed Armor (ML6)
    Belt of moderate fortification (ML5)
    Ring of Disabling +10 (ML7)

    That's 38 ML worth of gear. A STORM member would have to be level FIFTEEN to be able to equip all of that stuff.


    Cogs (L9) has over 30 ML of gear equipped, Grondley (L9) just under 30, and Kierik (L9) in the upper 30s to low 40s (depending on if he has any race restricted items). And that is just gear that is equipped.


    Wednesday THACO is averaging over 3ML/level of gear. Some of your party is over 4 ML/level. STORM has been pretty strict with the 2.5 ML/level rule, so perhaps you get the impression we are more gear focused because STORM is actually working with much tougher restrictions than the Wednesday group, and some of us tend to talk about how best to maximize our limited resources more?
    Last edited by Postumus; 08-13-2013 at 01:30 AM.

  4. #344
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    Keep in mind, when you say things like "the STORM group is focussed on xyz" that 60% of our group is also in the Monday/Wednesday group. So you could always ask them how we play and what our focus is. Posthumus and I are the only two that are not in your other groups.

    Like Posthumus has said, our equipment is a focus because we have to be careful about our choices. Jedial had to decide if he wanted medium fortification (ML5) or a better weapon. On elite it takes more than a couple whacks to take out the standard mob, but at the same time Jedial was dying when he would suffer a critical hit. Since he uses a big two hander, his best tactic is to face multiple opponents and use cleave. This puts him at risk of getting hit more than were he to face 1-2 foes at a time. So these are things we HAVE to consider, hence it looks like we are "focussed on equipment". Well, not just "looks like", we are. But that does not mean that is our end goal. As always, my primary purpose is the other players. It's just too darn fun. Getting good loot with low ML is fun. Overcoming the odds is fun. Listening to Percy say "Okay where is my burst, let's see..." while we are getting pounded is fun. Watching our party slip on Vinnie's grease is fun. Leveling up is fun. That's what it is for me.

  5. #345
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I personally might be guilty of a bit of meta-gaming by trying to influence the order in which we run quest chains (although I obviously haven't been too successful at it since we still haven't run the Phiarlin chain!),
    I hate that chain. lol

    All the traps in Party Crashers? Jedial is a dead man. lol
    Most aren't even reflex saves, so everyone could be in trouble, including our halflings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I don't think anyone (except me - and only once or twice) has ever said 'hey, "X" is a possible end reward for this quest, so we should run that!'. Favor has actually played more of a role in quest selection than possible end rewards.
    I am guilty too. How is that a bad thing? Does everyone have to have fun the same way as everyone else? Isn't it okay for everyone to have fun together for different reasons? I just don't get it when STORM gets a bad rap for not being a mirror image of the Monday/Wednesday groups. As we have pointed out numerous times, we are no more powerful, either build-wise, equipment-wise, or otherwise than the other groups. Yet the myth carries on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    STORM has been pretty strict with the 2.5 ML/level rule,
    Not just "pretty strict". At the beginning of every night, I always state to make sure everyone has the proper layout of ML equipment, since we do use, when possible, things we acquire in quests for the remainder of the evening. Although I have to say, it is not too often we find anything worth using aside from a clicky or something. I have yet to swap armor or weapon in the middle of a quest/evening. The best weapons come as chain-end-rewards, and that is usually where we end the evening, so no point in equipping that ML6 weapon or armor just to see how cool it looks before you log off.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post

    Not just "pretty strict". At the beginning of every night, I always state to make sure everyone has the proper layout of ML equipment, since we do use, when possible, things we acquire in quests for the remainder of the evening. Although I have to say, it is not too often we find anything worth using aside from a clicky or something. I have yet to swap armor or weapon in the middle of a quest/evening. The best weapons come as chain-end-rewards, and that is usually where we end the evening, so no point in equipping that ML6 weapon or armor just to see how cool it looks before you log off.

    I have pulled a couple of lacerating items, I recall a +3 staff of lacerating that made me drool but it was ML6 so I sold it.

  7. #347
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Default STORM to adopt 10% chest rule?

    I'm wondering if STORM shouldn't adopt the 10% chest rule and only take favor as end rewards like the other THACO groups do?

    The more I think about it, the more I think this might work out better for our group for two reasons.

    1- We already have to trash 95% of the gear we pull since the MLs on anything good are getting higher and higher.

    2- The current 2.5 ML/level rule is actually MORE restrictive than the 10% chest rule overall, and while we're still competing and doing pretty well on elite content, I think by 10th or 12th level, it will be VERY difficult to keep playing elite and hard content.

    For example, at level 10, we'll have a total of 25 ML worth of equipment available.

    Narcene, our rogue, could have a +7 search item, a +7 disable item, a +3 bow, +3 armor, and a medium fort item. And that is it.

    Jedial, our paladin could have a +4 strength item, a medium fort item, one +3 weapon, +3 armor, axebane bracers, and one other very minor item.

    The only caveats I propose to the 10% chest rule is that we still allow rewards for completing an entire chain, and end chests for raids. After running an entire chain of 5-10 quests, I definitely think we will have earned a reward. If we manage to actually complete a raid, at any difficulty, that is a significant accomplishment and we will have earned the end chest.

    What does everyone else think?
    Last edited by Postumus; 08-15-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  8. #348
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    double post
    Last edited by Postumus; 08-15-2013 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #349
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    A couple thoughts:

    Isn't it more than 10%? Like everyone rolls, if the first or second roll is a 1 (or 1-2?) then the chest is opened?

    I'd also like to submit that certain items besides guild reknown be acceptable such as expendable items (elixirs come to mind). In the cases of some quest chains, you can't continue unless you take an end reward (Catacombs and Sorrowdusk for example). On a side note, why does guild reknown matter? What do we need it for, if not better ships and buffs? I agree with chain and raid end rewards.

    How do we handle breakables? If I am close to a crate that Vinnie shoots with an arrow from across the room and a nice item drops, who gets it? The first one to pick it up, the one who broke it? I do think everyone is pretty good about sharing loot or passing it to someone who needs it, but I'd hate to see that change if the "only" loot we get is breakables. I'll admit I'd probably start breaking things more, maybe even try to be the first one to get to the breakables, racing and zerging to beat Cadrod there - get outta my way!!!! lol

    Also, If we are going to try and make the groups the same for raiding purposes, then with the enhancement pass coming I suggest that either STORM use the +20 heart to rebuild our toons w/o rolling stats, or the Monday/Wednesday groups use it to reroll their toons using randomly rolled stats like STORM did.

    Lots to consider.

  10. #350
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    Guys, I owe you an appology. My tone may have been too critical. It's just the "wording" that caused me to comment as I did. I didn't mean to rub you the wrong way.

    Yes, we have taken end rewards early on and that is were those items you commented on came from. It was only like a couple weeks ago we adopted the 10% rule.

    Yes, STORM should adopt the 10% rule because in the long run we are gaining some things that are worth keeping. This rule still retains a concept I personally like from the PnP days....the chance that despite doing an excellent job in an adventure there is still a CHANCE that you will not find any Magic Items, despite your best efforts. Fate and Destiny should always play a part in your characters life.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    A couple thoughts:

    Isn't it more than 10%? Like everyone rolls, if the first or second roll is a 1 (or 1-2?) then the chest is opened?
    Each chest gets (2) d10 rolls to see if you can open it. If those rolls fail, no contents are taken, BUT the team leader opens it to see if it's an item that is RQUIRED. Always roll before opening and do NOT roll before defeating any quardians.
    The required number changes as the Quest Level increases and only ONE of the dice rolls must satisfy the requirement,
    Quests 1-9 = "1", Quests 10-14 = "1 or 2", Quests 15-18 = "1, 2 or 3" and Quests 19,20 = "1, 2, 3 or 4".
    This falls in line with the DMG stating that "As Quest Levels increase, involving increasingly powerful Monsters, the Magic Items possessed by those Monsters naturally would increase as well".

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I'd also like to submit that certain items besides guild reknown be acceptable such as expendable items (elixirs come to mind). In the cases of some quest chains, you can't continue unless you take an end reward (Catacombs and Sorrowdusk for example). On a side note, why does guild reknown matter? What do we need it for, if not better ships and buffs? I agree with chain and raid end rewards.
    Valor and Reknown were allowed because it IS worthless to us, and it gives you something to choose as an end reward as you are required to take an end reward. It "caps" the potential of POSSIBLY getting nothing in the way of Magic Items from a Quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    How do we handle breakables? If I am close to a crate that Vinnie shoots with an arrow from across the room and a nice item drops, who gets it? The first one to pick it up, the one who broke it? I do think everyone is pretty good about sharing loot or passing it to someone who needs it, but I'd hate to see that change if the "only" loot we get is breakables. I'll admit I'd probably start breaking things more, maybe even try to be the first one to get to the breakables, racing and zerging to beat Cadrod there - get outta my way!!!! lol
    Exactly why I suggested it. More drama!
    Breakables belong to whomever broke it, however they broke it.
    It creates a little drama by allowing greed to show it's head. It's funny to watch! But they forget monsters HEAR breakables and the new expansion enhances reactions to heard noises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Also, If we are going to try and make the groups the same for raiding purposes, then with the enhancement pass coming I suggest that either STORM use the +20 heart to rebuild our toons w/o rolling stats, or the Monday/Wednesday groups use it to reroll their toons using randomly rolled stats like STORM did.

    Lots to consider.
    Only Keirik and Grondley did NOT roll their Stats. When we started, they jumped ahead and did it before I could stop them.
    Kierik stated he wished he could reroll, now might be his chance.

  11. #351
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Guys, I owe you an appology. My tone may have been too critical. It's just the "wording" that caused me to comment as I did. I didn't mean to rub you the wrong way.
    No, it didn't rub me the wrong way. I just kept getting the impression that everyone thinks the Sunday night group is monty-haul uber. I'd like to dispute that suggestion. Check out Jedial on yourddo, equipment NOT uber. CON=10. lol


    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Breakables belong to whomever broke it, however they broke it.
    So first to break, not first to grab whatever falls out? Might be problematic when its hard to determine who broke it. lol


    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Only Keirik and Grondley did NOT roll their Stats.
    So of all the Monday/Wednesday characters, all but these two rolled randomly with you as a witness?

  12. #352
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Welcome back...

    Well, for some reason, my original forum name LeadHero(FIVE) can post again, while LeadHero(S) can't? Oh well,

    Yep, I had been following this thread for a while and when I finally got the nerve to show up on the scheduled night, I just copied a RP character from another server, (Postumus knows him as Brophy) and forgot the random stats. So if Tuc will send me my new stats, that's what I'll use.

    Magic level. There are 14 spots on a character for gear, on Korthos, you would have on you 14; at level 20 you could be carrying 280! And then there is all the items for special circumstances; not to mention the golf bag of weapons. Even at 2.5 per level, every level now you get to move just 1 item up. And the lower the gear you are replacing, the harder it is to improve. At some point Storm will have to start sliding the 2.5 rule up or adopt a new loot rule. Fedora says that he hardly ever equips found loot for the rest of the quest, I usually don't either. Tuc says he like drama, how about this...

    After the new enhancement starts, you finalize your 2.5 level equipment and empty every other piece of wearable items. Then after that, every in quest chest can be opened. You take any non-items, coins, pots, gems and leave the equippable items in. Then Storm by consensus or roll, decides which single item gets to be taken and by whom. At the end chest, if there is no 'gotta have it' item, you can defer, the characters who want something; /roll 1d100, high wins; tie both win. I have no trouble letting someone else get a good item over me getting something average, after all, they will be keeping me alive with it! There are 5 of us, so you should get something about every other quest.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    So of all the Monday/Wednesday characters, all but these two rolled randomly with you as a witness?
    Yep.

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    Yep, I had been following this thread for a while and when I finally got the nerve to show up on the scheduled night, I just copied a RP character from another server, (Postumus knows him as Brophy) and forgot the random stats. So if Tuc will send me my new stats, that's what I'll use.
    Send me (6) numbers, each from 1 -6.
    Are you going to keep the Wizard Class?


    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    Magic level............ how about this...

    After the new enhancement starts, you finalize your 2.5 level equipment and empty every other piece of wearable items. Then after that, every in quest chest can be opened. You take any non-items, coins, pots, gems and leave the equippable items in. Then Storm by consensus or roll, decides which single item gets to be taken and by whom. At the end chest, if there is no 'gotta have it' item, you can defer, the characters who want something; /roll 1d100, high wins; tie both win. I have no trouble letting someone else get a good item over me getting something average, after all, they will be keeping me alive with it! There are 5 of us, so you should get something about every other quest.
    It sounds like everyone opens the chest and removes non-equipable items, then everybody stands around and negociates "who gets what".
    I assume the dice roll determines IF the chest gets opened first of all, or does the dice roll only affect equipable items?
    What if somebody "Accidentally" clicks 'Loot All"?

  15. #355
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    Oh, I forgot to mention the "encumberance" guideline that accompanies the 10% rule.
    At the BEGINNING of a Quest, your total weight CARRIED can not exceed 10% of your Maximum Weight Allowed.
    DDO set the encumberance limit to 10 times that of the rulebooks.
    It SOUNDS wrong when you look at what you have, but it actually is pretty close to the rulebooks.

    Basically, assuming you're STR is Average or above, you should have little trouble carrying what you need.
    Manatarmss has a STR of 10 and must always consider what he can carry.
    Our new Ranger has the same situation, ask her!

  16. #356
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Every chest...

    would be opened. But only 1 item could be taken by 1 player. If you lost, the item stays behind. And this would not always be an item for yourself, if good sword was in my loot share, I could reassign it to the player who could best use it.

    There are 14 equippable spots on a character, an ordinary Korthos 1st level would have 14ml on him; at 20, that is 280! Plus all the optional stuff and the golf bag of weapons. A static 2.5 makes it harder to improve a piece of gear because to move from lvl 1 to 5 would take all of 2 level ups to get.

    This is just blue sky thinking, I am not at all committed to any particular style, I just like to suggest different things and see how everyone else feels about it. Well except for death penalty.

    Yes I'll keep wizard but haven't planned out the new enhancements yet. I don't find them particularly easier to follow then the old ones.

    I'm surprised that Turbine hasn't been promoting the enhancement planner tool that they obviously will provide instead of relying on fans to do the work for them.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Oh, I forgot to mention the "encumberance" guideline that accompanies the 10% rule.
    At the BEGINNING of a Quest, your total weight CARRIED can not exceed 10% of your Maximum Weight Allowed.
    DDO set the encumberance limit to 10 times that of the rulebooks.
    It SOUNDS wrong when you look at what you have, but it actually is pretty close to the rulebooks.

    Basically, assuming you're STR is Average or above, you should have little trouble carrying what you need.
    Manatarmss has a STR of 10 and must always consider what he can carry.
    Our new Ranger has the same situation, ask her!
    We have been using that rule since day one.
    Last edited by Postumus; 08-16-2013 at 12:53 PM.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    Well, for some reason, my original forum name LeadHero(FIVE) can post again, while LeadHero(S) can't? Oh well,

    Yep, I had been following this thread for a while and when I finally got the nerve to show up on the scheduled night, I just copied a RP character from another server, (Postumus knows him as Brophy) and forgot the random stats. So if Tuc will send me my new stats, that's what I'll use.

    Magic level. There are 14 spots on a character for gear, on Korthos, you would have on you 14; at level 20 you could be carrying 280! And then there is all the items for special circumstances; not to mention the golf bag of weapons. Even at 2.5 per level, every level now you get to move just 1 item up. And the lower the gear you are replacing, the harder it is to improve. At some point Storm will have to start sliding the 2.5 rule up or adopt a new loot rule. Fedora says that he hardly ever equips found loot for the rest of the quest, I usually don't either. Tuc says he like drama, how about this...

    After the new enhancement starts, you finalize your 2.5 level equipment and empty every other piece of wearable items. Then after that, every in quest chest can be opened. You take any non-items, coins, pots, gems and leave the equippable items in. Then Storm by consensus or roll, decides which single item gets to be taken and by whom. At the end chest, if there is no 'gotta have it' item, you can defer, the characters who want something; /roll 1d100, high wins; tie both win. I have no trouble letting someone else get a good item over me getting something average, after all, they will be keeping me alive with it! There are 5 of us, so you should get something about every other quest.
    I like this idea. Do we roll to determine who gets the item, or just take turns? Jed gets the pick of first chest, Percy the second, and so on?

    Or would we just reach consensus on who gets the single item each chest? For example we have a xbow, a shield, a kama, and a club in a chest. Percy says he would like the bow, Cad would like the shield, Jed could use the club but does not care, and no one wants the kama. Then Cad and Percy figure out who would use or benefit from the xbow/shield the most and one defers to the other by consensus.

    I think that works. If we ever reach a stalemate we can always roll to see who picks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I like this idea.
    The Treasure Tables allow Coin, Gems and Magic Items on a probability basis for each "above average" encounter, not the individual.
    As everything in D&D is probability based, it is always possible that there will be nothing to find in a Treasure Hoard.

    The 10% rule follows that guideline and the suggestion LeadHero is talking about "guarantees" Treasure.
    We use the procedure that IF there is Treasure, each person gets their share of Non-Magic Items. Everyone then gathers around the chest and discusses the Items.
    If there are no specific interests, everyone takes what was allotted.
    If someone can use or wants some specific thing, they may negotiate or even barter with the character that has the assignment.
    Note that this barter MAY include Gems!

    This procedure along with the breakables routine adds drama and role-playing to our mix.

    It is also about the saying "It's not about that you GET WHAT YOU WANT , but that you WANT WHAT YOU GET."
    That will always be a THAC0 motto.

    Also, there is the "remorse or frustration factor.
    If you open a chest and see something that you would really want, only to lose it because of an unfavorable dice roll, well, I think you understand the resulting emotions.

    NOT seeing what is in a chest is preferable. Until Turbine institutes a TRUE Treasure Table implementation (hint), the practice of not seeing what is in a chest must continue.
    Heck, in PnP, the DM didn't tell you what you COULD have had if the Treasure Table indicated "Nothing".

    Those that insist they "deserve" a Magic Item for completing a Quest are playing DDO, not D&D. IMO
    The only thing you deserve for completing a Quest is the XP.

  20. #360
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Upstate New York (EST)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    No, it didn't rub me the wrong way. I just kept getting the impression that everyone thinks the Sunday night group is monty-haul uber. I'd like to dispute that suggestion. Check out Jedial on yourddo....
    That's good to hear. I think we all realize what it will take to play upper level Elite.
    I really feel the 10% rule and using Normal is the long term solution.

    Everyone, please add up the base value of everything you have, equipped, backpack and personal bank.
    (Those 3 areas should be the only place for your character's belongings.)
    Add your characters Plat and post the total.

    I am thinking and trying to compare this to the "Wealth" values in the DMG.
    It will also compare all the THAC0 characters.

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