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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I understood, but you left the original comment out there so I replied. If you wanted us to disregard then you could have removed it at the same time you said to check the other thread, correct?
    No, not correct.

    Definition of DISREGARD
    : to pay no attention to : treat as unworthy of regard or notice

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Maybe he just means pure class vs multi? Otherwise I'm not aware of any 'optimized' builds in our group.
    Optimized is a relative word. Compared to the builds on the optimization threads, Storm is not optimized. Compared to Thaco, Storm is optimized. Pick one melee build in Thaco and compare it to Storm's paladin. Do you understand my use of the term optimize now? Though its kinda pointless, because I asked you to disregard it in the first place...

  3. #163
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    No, not correct.
    Definition of DISREGARD
    : to pay no attention to : treat as unworthy of regard or notice
    So in other words, let me express my opinion while requesting you do not comment on it?

    In that case please disregard this post.

  4. #164
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    Compared to Thaco, Storm is optimized. Pick one melee build in Thaco and compare it to Storm's paladin.
    Did any of the melees in THAC0 roll their stats, or manually assign them?
    STORM's paladin rolled his stats with Intruder telling me what the rolls meant and where I was allowed to assign them.

    Did anyone in THAC0 intentionally choose less desirable feats or enhancements? Because if you just chose what you wanted, you did not do it to be UNoptimized, you chose what you wanted to strengthen your character and the party, just like STORM characters did.

  5. #165
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    Optimized is a relative word. Compared to the builds on the optimization threads, Storm is not optimized. Compared to Thaco, Storm is optimized.

    We rolled for our stats, did you roll for your first THACO character or did you choose where to put your stat points? If you didn't have to roll then our characters can't be more optimal than yours. If you did roll for your stats, then we both created characters the exact same way and our characters can't be more optimal than yours.


    You keep attributing to build and gear what you should be attributing to experience.

  6. #166
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Completed the Lost Seekers chain on elite (WW), began Tangleroot chain and finished the first two quests on elite. Percy is getting better at healing and it appears that blur is helping to mitigate enough damage that Cadrod can focus on party buffs and crowd control spells while Percy does the bulk of the healing.

    Narcene blew only one trap and even then we were able to navigate through spikes successfully. Overall Narcene did a great job finding and disarming 80% of the other traps. Heroism, plus skill boost, plus bard song is still working so far. Cad might have to add Fox's Cunning to his spell list and I think Percy will have to think about slotting Prayer if we want to keep on top of the traps on elite.


    The scorpions in part four of water works were pretty nasty, but we survived. The only death occurred when Vinegarune lagged out at the end of part two of Tangleroot. Rather than funnel the hobgoblins through the doorway and try to control them, we got a bit separated and next thing you know Vinegar was surrounded by hobgoblins and Percy was incapacitated. Cad was able to toss a cure light wounds on Percy, but not before Vinegar was overwhelmed.


    The group seems to be only a few ranks away from sixth level. Cadrod is already banking sixth, but he's got a tome of learning and the vip bonus so I expected he may have to bank levels at some point. Really looking forward to sixth level as I have not played a bard in three years. Not sure which prestige to go for though. Warchanter seems to be better suited for zerging groups, which we are not, and virtuoso may not fit our play style since we tend to kill things too quickly for Cadrod to use fascinate effectively. Maybe spell singer? The extra SPs could come in handy. But then virtuoso has some nice benefits too... tough choice.
    Last edited by Postumus; 05-20-2013 at 02:42 AM.

  7. #167
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Prayer

    =

    Percy now has Prayer in his growing list of non-healing augments. It provides a +1 bonus to allies, and -1 penalty to opponents, that applies to skill checks, weapon damage, attack rolls, and saves. There are no mushroom powders, herbals, or beer required to cast, so Percy is taking a wait and see stance on the potential effectiveness. It does require Divine Focus on Percy's part. This means he will cast Prayer, but stand far back from any activity that is depending on it for success!

    =
    Last edited by Fricko; 05-20-2013 at 10:38 AM.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    We rolled for our stats, did you roll for your first THACO character or did you choose where to put your stat points? If you didn't have to roll then our characters can't be more optimal than yours. If you did roll for your stats, then we both created characters the exact same way and our characters can't be more optimal than yours.

    You keep attributing to build and gear what you should be attributing to experience.
    Its an interesting point. My sorc was originally designed as more optimized than most of the THAC0 builds. I wouldn't compare your bard to my sorc for example. Also don't look at the wizard who is in the same boat as my sorc. But the other players (who were legitmately built) should be a good comparison.

    Also note that my "optimized" build hasn't worked out as well as I thought, because with less gear I haven't been able to make save-spells stick, and without shrines I can't spam cast them. So my high CHA isn't the benefit you'd normally think it would be. I've since removed my PrC to try to downplay my build, and I've spent my enhancements shallowly across all elements. If I could fully reincarnate into another class, I would.

    The reason why I asked you to disregard my previous post is exactly because I no longer attribute the delta in thaco/storm harbor success nearly so much to build and gear. That doesn't mean I think the delta is experience - running with both at the time, I saw that the main difference was not experience. It was tactics around melee vs. ranged, and the end story is that a bad enemy AI made a crucial difference. I'm eager to hear how things go in the marketplace and other areas.

  9. #169
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    What we all need is a new set of Quests that no one has done dozens of times, thereby eliminating the "experience" factor.

    A "Foundry" in DDO would be fantastic!

  10. #170
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    Default With these conditions...

    Any steady supply of new content would be great; but it would have to be totally separate from 'real' DDO. They could be hosted on a seperate fansite server or on your own. You would export your character from DDO for play. No loot, plat, favor or xp would be brought back; just the memories. Based on player requests for housing, pvp, player content and delivering, new forum, new enhancement system and new levels, probably not.
    No Char left behind; original join date, Oct 2010

  11. #171
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    What we all need is a new set of Quests that no one has done dozens of times, thereby eliminating the "experience" factor.

    A "Foundry" in DDO would be fantastic!

    Knowing is what lies in wait around the corner provides a massive advantage for players. What Mortal Voyage does to try to mitigate this advantage is to have the least experienced player decide which direction to go, which doors to open, etc. We also do that sometimes in our Drawn By Fate static groups. This is something I think we can institute in Storm when we start getting into quests that are unfamiliar for some players.


    Knowing which spells actually work well, how long it takes to cast them, how to manage SPs, how to dodge incoming lightning bolts and ray spells, how the AIs tend to react, where to stand/walk in traps, and which spells, effects, and items provide the best defense/offense vs certain monsters is the other major advantage players have that really can't be mitigated by anything.


    Part of the reason I chose a bard was to be able to explain some of the latter knowledge through 'bardic knowledge' and 'tavern tales.' While I try not to influence which directions we go or which doors we open much, I also like to use the 'tavern tales' card to get us from point A to point B efficiently (without zerging) so we don't spend half of the evening wandering around looking for a quest entrance in the wilderness unless the group really wants to explore the area.

  12. #172
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    Hmmmm......in the words of a mighty "entity"......

    "Impressive.......Most impressive"

    That ideal is very admirable.

  13. #173
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    It was tactics around melee vs. ranged, and the end story is that a bad enemy AI made a crucial difference. I'm eager to hear how things go in the marketplace and other areas.
    I don't remember how many quests we did together, I think you were there for about three evenings, maybe four? I could be wrong. I just wanted to also comment on the tactics you mention. For the first several quests/evenings we generally ran tactics very similar to THAC0 since 4/6 party members of STORM were also in THAC0. We "tried" to hang back around corners and use bluff or ranged to pick off the enemy a couple at a time. We FAILED when Jedial would zerg in and rush what he thought was 1-2 remainaing mobs only to find that there were several others close by. Well, fail might be the wrong word, but Jedial experienced 3 deaths by moving into melee too quickly ahead of the others.

    Our tactics now are still similar, but Jedial is a little more careful. You are correct about the shamens though. I have found that when we are in close quarters (already hand-to-hand range) Jedial likes to rush the shamens as quickly as possible and attempt first a trip then just hack them as fast as possible ignoring the other mobs, even jumping over them if necessary to continue the assault on the shamen (or ogre, or other boss type). This works much better than hanging back and trading arrows for lightning bolts.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Our tactics now are still similar, but Jedial is a little more careful. You are correct about the shamens though. I have found that when we are in close quarters (already hand-to-hand range) Jedial likes to rush the shamens as quickly as possible and attempt first a trip then just hack them as fast as possible ignoring the other mobs, even jumping over them if necessary to continue the assault on the shamen (or ogre, or other boss type). This works much better than hanging back and trading arrows for lightning bolts.
    Any chance that, when you post a summary of the night's adventure, you could include the biggest challenge and how you dealt with it? For example, I'm really interested in hearing how you guys handle the arcane skeletons as mentioned by Posthumus.

  15. #175
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    Any chance that, when you post a summary of the night's adventure, you could include the biggest challenge and how you dealt with it? For example, I'm really interested in hearing how you guys handle the arcane skeletons as mentioned by Posthumus.

    Will do.

    I think so far the only arcane skellies we've seen were in the end of the Catacombs chain?

  16. #176
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Will do.

    I think so far the only arcane skellies we've seen were in the end of the Catacombs chain?
    And that one in Sacrifices (on Korthos). That one was a quick beat down. Three or more of us pounced at once and it was over before he could get a shot off.


    The Tangleroot death was really due to bad aggro management. I think we got cocky and instead of all of us rushing in and attacking quickly, or all of us hanging back and drawing the Hobgoblins through the doorway, we tried to do both and it was too much. At least that was my impression.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    The Tangleroot death was really due to bad aggro management. I think we got cocky and instead of all of us rushing in and attacking quickly, or all of us hanging back and drawing the Hobgoblins through the doorway, we tried to do both and it was too much. At least that was my impression.
    The same thing happens in the Wed group. Things go well and we start to separate, or we forget about traps, etc. One of the main reasons I think we need a different death consequence. Love to hear your opinions in the other thread about that.

  18. #178
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    The same thing happens in the Wed group. Things go well and we start to separate, or we forget about traps, etc. One of the main reasons I think we need a different death consequence. Love to hear your opinions in the other thread about that.

    I like your idea about deleting loot if no one is up for deleting characters.

  19. #179
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    A couple folks showed up late so we decided to do some exploring in Tangleroot until they arrived. When we had the entire party together we finished exploring Tangleroot and then proceeded to Yarkuch's War-plans on elite.


    Our magic resources were at about 80% when we started the quest due to our travels through Tangleroot. So while we had no problems obtaining the Combat Orders, Cadrod was out of SPs and songs, and Percy was below 50%. Even without heroism or musical inspiration from Cadrod, with a handy prayer from Percy, Narcene was able to find and disarm a couple traps.


    We were successful pulling the hobgoblins one or two at a time until we defeated the hobgoblin tactician guarding the troop orders. But we were 100% out of SPs. At some point both Cadrod and Percy each used a mnemonic potion to get some points back and with Percy's prayers, Cadrod's music and heroism spell, and his own skill buffs Narcene was able to find and disable the last two traps. Again we did an excellent job pulling and bluffing the hobgoblins and last tactician to dispatch them one at a time around the corner out of range of the two hobgoblin clerics.


    Once the last tactician had been defeated and we obtained the patrol map, Vinegarune discovered his grease clicky worked almost as well on the enemy casters as it did on his own party. They were easy to pick off with arrows and bolts as they slipped in the grease and Vinegarune ran up to deliver a coup de gras (and be the first to open the chest).


    We ran into some lag difficulty at the outset of Whisperdoom's Spawn and Jed and Narcene both seemed to get killed before they could react. We abandoned that quest and spent the last 20 minutes or so wandering Tangleroot searching for the rare monsters Percy had heard about while getting plasterr-errr... relaxing in the One-Eared Bugbear.


    We had some discussion about fortification items and whether to follow one of the other THACO groups and use them as 'admin items.' I think we agreed that we preferred to use what we find and possibly adjust the 2.5 magic ratio if the fort items we find would take up too much of the magic allotment.


    Personally, I am fine waiting until we find these items in game, but I also think we should consider questing for items we have heard tales of that have fortification on them. For instance, the Drow in Red Fens craft magical arm bands they call Bracers of the Claw, and there is a legend of a Duergar blacksmith who will craft special items for adventurers intrepid enough to brave the Black Anvil Mines to collect adamantine ore for him.


    There are also other tales and songs of rare and lost magical items that we can quest after such as Dragoncraft armor from the Gianthold, the Kundarek Trooper's Shield, a Ring of Balance, the fabled helm Minos Legens, and the legendary shield Arrondi.


    I would much rather quest for these items than have someone craft fort items for us (or purchase them from the AH), and I think questing after specific items we've heard tales about fits in well with the classic DnD approach.
    Last edited by Postumus; 05-27-2013 at 03:31 PM.

  20. #180
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    We had some discussion about fortification items and whether to follow one of the other THACO groups and use them as 'admin items.' I think we agreed that we preferred to use what we find and possibly adjust the 2.5 magic ratio if the fort items we find would take up too much of the magic allotment.Personally, I am fine waiting until we find these items in game, but I also think we should consider questing for items we have heard tales of that have fortification on them. For instance, the Drow in Red Fens craft magical arm bands they call Bracers of the Claw, and there is a legend of a Duergar blacksmith who will craft special items for adventurers intrepid enough to brave the Black Anvil Mines to collect adamantine ore for him.There are also other tales and songs of rare and lost magical items that we can quest after such as Dragoncraft armor from the Gianthold, the Kundarek Trooper's Shield, a Ring of Balance, the fabled helm Minos Legens, and the legendary shield Arrondi.I would much rather quest for these items than have someone craft fort items for us (or purchase them from the AH), and I think questing after specific items we've heard tales about fits in well with the classic DnD approach.
    Agreed.And, honestly, Jedial obtained a belt of moderate fort from a breakable during the night's adventures, which is why I brought up the topic. I didn't say anything about finding the belt since I always feel bad when I get something nice from a breakable - it feels like cheating the rest of the party. Also, it is ML 5, which means I would have to give up several magic items in order to use it - so was thinking of waiting until level 6 so I wouldn't have to give up quite as many other magic items for it. It could probably replace my Korthos set (gloves/necklace of something that give light fort, DR1/-, and a couple other small bonuses).

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