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  1. #41
    Community Member bbcjoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Ya, its not rocket science. The rules don't define whether it's D&Dish or not, but can definitely get in the WAY of it being D&D-ish. D&D definitely was about melee combat, and pre-MotU you were a complete fool to think that you were doing anything important at all standing next to a mob swinging a weapon. Stuns, trips, saps, etc... sure. Melee combat? No, you were being a complete drain.

    MotU made melee combat situationally effective. It could have done a bit more, but in all truth I think melee combat is about right (except for some haywire destiny abilities) currently. It's the out-of-control ranged and caster situations that have turned the game into a total bore with certain groups. They need nerfed, it's the proper way to balance at this point.

    (...)

    You don't really understand the system if you think AC is useless. I notice the difference, drastically, between my cleric (who can get about 70 AC) and my sorc who has 50% concealment constantly. They both get hit about 50% of the time in the content I run, but one also has a moderate PRR and the ability to shield block when applicable.

    DDO's combat is supposed to be active. Most of your defense comes from you actions, not your stats. Get used to it.
    Wait a minute, how the changes in AC affected the usefulness of melee combat characters? That's not the point and neither the reason of the new balance you stated, it's more because of the arrival of Epic Destinies - which is a completely different thing that could exist even in the old AC system.

    And how does your point in the last two paragraphs proves AC usefulness again? Concealment is not AC (and its miss effect has always stacked with it) and neither is PRR (which derivates mostly from the type of armor you are wearing). A 50% chance of being missed has always been possible to achieve - specially because you COULD receive a displacement buff from a caster.

    If you are saying the system is more balanced than before, I'll agree with you there, but it's not my point at all. My point is that the current system is an aberration that is not DnD and there is no reason why it should be this way when a few changes in the old system could be made to correct it.

  2. #42
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGOskar View Post
    I don't see this as a bad idea, but to see it proper, it'd be best to work with some key points....
    Just skimmed thru the topic sentences.

    /props for presentation.
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  3. #43
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Since we're asking for stuff that hasn't ever existed in ddo, can we have a monopoly server while we're at it?
    Nerdrage/Endgame ~ Sarlona
    Ekkehart (human PM) - Hammet (WF AM) - Cerussite (helf THF kensei) - Anordineth (helf dark monk)
    Buy my stuff!

  4. #44
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justhavinfun View Post

    How about the halfling or gnome that wants to try a climb up the back of the giant so that they can get a shot at hitting the thing in the head. Or they try and talk the fighter into throwing them up on the dragons back so the don't get stepped on during the fight....
    Eh?


    Do I know you? You seem to have played with me and some of my past halfling rogues.

    Did this same halfling often talk big fighters into wearing an empty backpack for said halfling to ride around in?
    CEO - Cupcake's Muskateers, Thelanis
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  5. #45
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    What's most retarded about the new defensive system is AC is the LEAST important aspect of a layered defense. It should be the MOST important aspect.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

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    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  6. #46
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    Since they ditched D20 and went with this abortion of a cobmbat system.




    But those affected everything; what's the point in a high AC build now? What's the point in maxing your to-hit? Everything is set up for diminishing returns, and by end game, a complete upgrade of your equipment yields almost no improvement at all.
    well theirs that nice feeling of not getting your ass beat by the average joe monster and the big boss. Kind of like how one guy with 100% fort loses half his hp in a swoop where the other guy with 150 stands like a wall.

    As for combat theirs actually a reason to have nearly any splash in a group now. (nearly theirs still a good many ways to cripple yourself) You don't have to stack to hit nearly as high, SA actually has it's force feature, and anyone holding a weapon isn't just a sponge piker.

    If anything their is a combat system now. From dmg output to everyone having a slew of viable combat tactics.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    Are you suggesting that physical paper and ink have some metaphysical quality that cannot be reproduced using computers?
    No, I believe he is suggesting that a computer limited to preset code can't match the flexibility of a live dungeon master has for reacting to the choices made by players. So the game limits players to only preforming actions within the narrow parameters of what it is programed to react to.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    As for repeating quests, are you telling me that you only ever ran any given module once?! What madness is this?
    What would the point of running it again be?

  9. #49
    Community Member Tunst's Avatar
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    no worried
    neverwinter comes out soon.
    Tunst - 12Ftr/6Mnk/2Rog (Past 12Bard/8Ftr)(Past 20 monk)
    Aussircaex - 14 Wizard (Past 20 Sorc)
    Boltok - 20 FvS
    And tons others that i rarely log on atm.

  10. #50
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    What's most retarded about the new defensive system is AC is the LEAST important aspect of a layered defense. It should be the MOST important aspect.
    AC in DDO is still more important than it is in 3.0/3.5 D&D past level 5ish.

    I do agree with your statement. I just think it's something that D&D had a specific problem with.

  11. #51
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    What would the point of running it again be?
    Because the last party died?

    ...that's the only reason I can think of.

  12. #52
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Personally, I love the new update.

    I can make any character concept I would like, anything, and there's gear out there somewhere to support it. Before we were very, very limited with our gear and build choices, but now that all these new stuff has come out, I don't have to build toward the gear to be viable, I can have gear that supports my needs and playstyle. I really love that about this game now- I loved it about Torchlight II, and I loved it about Skyrim.

    I don't consider this game DnD, I really just consider it an MMO with a wonderfully active combat system. Everything else that tries to come close is not nearly as developed, and falls off over time.

    I'm not putting on rosy goggles, I just like the game. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you want to play DnD you can. It'll probably cost you less money. They're doing the best they have, trying to keep the servers running, the employees paid, and attempting to bring us the best experience possible. There's no reason why they wouldn't.
    ~Sarlona~ - Proud Member of The Unrepentant
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  13. #53
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Can't really contribute anything to this thread besides saying that DDO has zero in common with WoW. It's not a WoW clone. If the OP left WoW and is now thinking of going back, well, that kinda explains everything. You want WoW and DDO is not it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  14. #54
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunst View Post
    no worried
    neverwinter comes out soon.
    NWO is horrible and yes I played it

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  15. #55
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Can't really contribute anything to this thread besides saying that DDO has zero in common with WoW. It's not a WoW clone. If the OP left WoW and is now thinking of going back, well, that kinda explains everything. You want WoW and DDO is not it.
    +1 so true

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    NWO is horrible and yes I played it
    NWO = New World Order?!!

    I hate Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro. I miss Black Isle and TSR days. I miss AD&D totally. My barbarian with 60+ STR can't bend bars or break a door? Or just run thru a wall of stone?! DDO is simply put: "Just another MMO". D&D stands there for marketing, that brought all of us here. I can't get along with newbies to D&D and want to play AD&D strictly so can't find a group where i am living.... I'll have 4 kids just to group up for AD&D in future!

  17. #57
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Nope. It was never possible in the first place. The Dungeons and Dragons system allows players to succeed or fail by the power of their ideas and imagination. All computer games are inherently limited by their programming to only allow choices that are within the possibilities that were written into the code.

    DDO has never used the Dungeons and Dragons system - the closest that it has ever come was using an approximation of the rules set as applied to an MMO's physics engine. The fact that we can run quests more than once and the fact that our success or failure in those quests and the time we take to complete (or fail) them has no impact on the world around us breaks the genre immediately. And if we could only run quests once ever, then the DDO game would never have been possible because it would have been unable to sustain a customer base.

    TL;DR version - no.
    Pedantic/facetious much? You know perfectly well what the OP meant for goodness sake. I'm so sick of hearing this argument 'oh a computer isn't as flexible as a GM'. No. Quite. but I know plenty of GMs who play absolutely by the book, including absolutely by the adventure in the book, whether it makes any sense or not and will not ever houserule... and that's a lot less fun than DDO.


    OP - no. it won't happen, it will never happen, they are not going to do a 'DDO Classic' server. How far back would they roll it? '06 launch? '09 F2P launch? one update before the expansion? Half the content simply wouldn't be available to you and it would get more and more out of date over time.

    Of course you know this, and your post was basically you saying 'I do not like it! In fact I hate it!' which I can totally understand, but if you want a proper DnD experience now, I suggest you go with neverwinter nights (the old one) which was fully 3rd ed compliant and allowed you to make your own adventures then open them up for others to play. It's about the only option left to you.

    Personally I'm very much looking forward to the new Neverwinter (beta key for this weekend, woo!), because they're not claiming any real link to the PnP rules, they're just making what will hopefully be a solidly enjoyable game using similar terminology and the IP which is entirely sensible when talking about such different experiences as PnP and video games (I'll miss the character flexibility of DDO very much mind you). And that's good, because I refuse to refer to 4th ed as 'dungeons and dragons'. But it's also why I don't really mind the changes Turbine have made because they've been made for the same reasons - to make it work as a video game. As soon as they made the TWF changes the game broke any remaining ties to the OGL game rules anyway and that was LONG before the expansion.

    Anyway - pushing for that one extra AC is pointless now at end game... but wasn't it always? AC broke the instant we hit L13ish under the old system - to hits went off the charts and AC was totally useless unless you focussed your entire build on it. at least now everyone gets some damage mitigation. Spellpower... well I certainly think there are a few fixes to be made particularly around metamagics, but the system is a lot easier to understand now in my view.

    I totally understand why you don't like the way the rules system has gone, I totally get that you want everything to match the actual DnD rules (presumably you're also in favour of the abortion of a rule that says crafting stuff should cost you XP too...*shudder*. There's a reason I stuck with 2nd ed till I discovered pathfinder), but it's not going to happen. Either accept it and enjoy the game, or accept it and move on because it's not going to get reversed.
    Last edited by dunklezhan; 03-20-2013 at 04:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  18. #58
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    It can be done, even with the real time combat system of DDO.

    All it takes is a human acting as a game master (GM) to spawn monsters at the dungeon and set the cr at that time and maybe the level of AI.
    As for the AI all it takes is for that GM to be able to "load" the dice, be able to set the timers and/or cool-downs between/for the monsters "actions" and make it so that it can be changed on the fly.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  19. #59
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    Could we get a server that runs Dungeons & Dragons?
    Roll20.com seems to be doing this. At least it's facilitating the playing of D&D and more.

    If you're asking for real PnP online, play single-player games, or be prepared for a long wait.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    It can be done, even with the real time combat system of DDO.

    All it takes is a human acting as a game master (GM) to spawn monsters at the dungeon and set the cr at that time and maybe the level of AI.
    As for the AI all it takes is for that GM to be able to "load" the dice, be able to set the timers and/or cool-downs between/for the monsters "actions" and make it so that it can be changed on the fly.
    Who will pay that human? Want an increase in subscriptions?
    What will happen if more than 20 groups starts a quest, our guilds to start at least 9 quest at a time and we are even at 40% active guild. Want a long wait and blame the human operator for spawning the wrong monster or even loot chest?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hutoth View Post
    Roll20.com seems to be doing this. At least it's facilitating the playing of D&D and more.
    If you're asking for real PnP online, play single-player games, or be prepared for a long wait.
    Correct, I once played a game online made strictly from a DND moded version.. It was all one instance, when we start a game with 4 person, it is 4 person until the end.. sometimes the other guy will make his move after 45 mins to 3 days max.

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