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Thread: CitW

  1. #1
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Default CitW

    Please update Caught in the Web with respect to the new raid, the Fall of Truth.

    FoT provides commendations with every completion. It's also a lot easier and less time consuming. CitW is more difficult, more intricate and longer.

    I honestly don't understand why CitW doesn't have the same commendation drop rates as Fot and I believe that if it continues to have poor drop rates, once players get their CitW weapon, they'll just stop running the time-consuming raid. And that will make it hard to pug the raid and get the weapons.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Truth

    Commendations are needed in bucketloads now anyway.
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    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I think the CitW commendation drop rates were fine when weapons only had one tier and you could actually upgrade them without using coms anyway. When the extra tiers were added and the com rate was increased by a small amount, it was probably too low then. Now with a 4th tier, it's time to update the com drop rate to be in line with FoT. 1 guaranteed on norm, 1d2 on hard and 1d2+1 for elite would be a very good way to go. Just imagining how I'd ever get the 25 coms needed to fully upgrade a weapon by just running CitW makes my head hurt.

    I actually enjoy running FoT. I know that there will always be at least a com in the chest at the end so I make some progress on my gear as I work toward 20 completions. With CitW, now that I have all the weapons I need, running that raid seems like far too much work for what will most likely end up being no gain in the end. CitW is actually a lot better than when it first came out and updating this aspect would really add some polish to a raid that could use it.
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    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    It's also a lot easier and less time consuming.
    Yes, because Turbine gave you a raid, that once mastered, can provide you with a consistent and efficient supply of commendations - the proper etiquette is now to demand easier and more efficient means of obtaining commendations.

    People will run CitW because they are on timer for Fall of Truth. If they constantly use bypasses, they'll run CitW because they have grown tired of Fall of Truth. I don't really care what Turbine does as far as commendations go, but your logic leaves a whole lot more to be desired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Yes, because Turbine gave you a raid, that once mastered, can provide you with a consistent and efficient supply of commendations
    I'm not sure Turbine really "gave" us a raid, in that I recall paying money for MoTu. Maybe the word you're looking for is "sold". Turbine sold us a raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    the proper etiquette is now to demand easier and more efficient means of obtaining commendations.
    And here I don't see the OP demanding anything. I see them making a polite and reasonable request that will help Turbine sell the raid to more people.

  6. #6
    Community Member Aldieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    It's also a lot easier and less time consuming
    They kinda fixed this

  7. #7
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    /signed.

    This will help keep CITW in the loop.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Yes, because Turbine gave you a raid, that once mastered, can provide you with a consistent and efficient supply of commendations - the proper etiquette is now to demand easier and more efficient means of obtaining commendations.

    People will run CitW because they are on timer for Fall of Truth. If they constantly use bypasses, they'll run CitW because they have grown tired of Fall of Truth. I don't really care what Turbine does as far as commendations go, but your logic leaves a whole lot more to be desired.
    White-knighting much? Whether or not people will continue to run CitW is irrelevant.

    Singular makes both a reasonable and logical argument; there are two sources of heroic commendations in this game, one takes about ten minutes to complete will return between 1 and 2 per person on Epic Hard difficulty. The second requires forty to sixty minutes of time investment and will consistently return zero for individuals running Epic Hard.

    In short, it is clear that the effort, difficulty, and rewards for both of these commendation sources are unbalanced. While I doubt that Turbine will ever revisit CitW as they lack the will, resources, or belief of potential fiscal gain by doing so, I don't see why it is illogical to update the raid to take newer content into consideration.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Yes, because Turbine gave you a raid, that once mastered, can provide you with a consistent and efficient supply of commendations - the proper etiquette is now to demand easier and more efficient means of obtaining commendations.

    People will run CitW because they are on timer for Fall of Truth. If they constantly use bypasses, they'll run CitW because they have grown tired of Fall of Truth. I don't really care what Turbine does as far as commendations go, but your logic leaves a whole lot more to be desired.
    Ensis and yun_chang have wonderfully provided how I would answer your post.

    I'm not demanding, but requesting, an update to the CitW raid to bring it in line with the newer FoT raid. I like both raids a lot and think they're great additions. I fail to see why a much more difficult and time consuming raid would not be updated to hand out similar rewards as a shorter one.

    Currently, on Thelanis, I see around 6-8 FoTs daily and around 1-2 CitWs (biased sampling for my time spent and only based on my anecdotal observations of the lfm). The reality is that CitW is just longer, with the potential for being extremely long if you pug it, making it's commendation rewards inversely proportional to the time spent, relative to FoT. That just doesn't make logical sense.

    Unless you really love the raid, once you get your weapon, there is no logical reason to run it. The chances are, you won't get a commendation, the xp/time is not worth it (and most people will be in their max out EDs for it, so XP is most likely to be irrelevant), and you could be farming shorter quests for other items. That means we will not see a Shroud like situation happening, where raid vets take pug groups through and pass on the knowledge - so CitW will likely remain a time consuming, less run raid.

    I mean, a counter argument would be to make FoT drop less commendations, but I can guarantee you that suggestion/nerf would not be well received.

  10. #10
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldieb View Post
    They kinda fixed this
    How so?

    Edit: ah...yeah. Reading all the FoT damning threads now!

    What a fix...well, let's see how long it takes to re-learn this raid
    Last edited by Singular; 03-18-2013 at 10:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member susiedupfer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ensis View Post
    White-knighting much? Whether or not people will continue to run CitW is irrelevant.

    Singular makes both a reasonable and logical argument; there are two sources of heroic commendations in this game, one takes about ten minutes to complete will return between 1 and 2 per person on Epic Hard difficulty. The second requires forty to sixty minutes of time investment and will consistently return zero for individuals running Epic Hard.

    In short, it is clear that the effort, difficulty, and rewards for both of these commendation sources are unbalanced. While I doubt that Turbine will ever revisit CitW as they lack the will, resources, or belief of potential fiscal gain by doing so, I don't see why it is illogical to update the raid to take newer content into consideration.
    I absolutely agree that CitW should be brought into line with FoT for comm drops. It actually should be a better drop rate, due to extra length, but same drop rate makes sense.

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  12. #12
    Community Member Bzzzt's Avatar
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    I disagree, if CitW was brought into line with FoT, it would then get "buffed" like FoT and I would like to continue to be able to run this raid at least :X
    Nope.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    /signed.

    This will help keep CITW in the loop.
    Yes, gives a reason to run CiTW after you got your items.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Yes, gives a reason to run CiTW after you got your items.
    Which some of us are still looking for.

    I'd also like to see Heroic Commendations added to all epic raids, maybe not guaranteed, but at least a chance. Give a reason to run a DQ, MA or LoB once in awhile.
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  15. #15
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    My cynical instincts are giving me the feeling that due to this thread, FoT will have its comm drop rate nerfed.

  16. #16
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    [sarcasm]No need to change anything now - Turbine fixed everything by making FoT more difficult.[/sarcasm]

    Well - since the difficulty of FoT has been increased, I've seen many fewer PuGs running it and a few additional CiTWs

    I would, however, like a guarantee that I'm getting SOMETHING for running CiTW - last 3 I've run (2H/1N) have netted me 1 commendation and no named items (Just re-flagged my toon after TRing so these are the only stats I have recently). I'm continuing to run it until I get my Twilight - then it'll be FoT until my eyes bleed and a CiTW once every three days until everything is upgraded.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    I just ran the new FoT and found it to be almost as easy as the previous FoT. So...I really don't get all the rage on it.

    My point still stands: CitW should drop commendations at least at the same rate as FoT.

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    After burning many spell point pots, enduring long death timers, putting up with stupid respawing spell wards traps, six chests, and not even full, of junk times twelve players (i.e. not a single comm or named item) is just plain ridiculous and so wrong.

    They have no shame or pride.

  19. #19
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanhausen View Post
    After burning many spell point pots, enduring long death timers, putting up with stupid respawing spell wards traps, six chests, and not even full, of junk times twelve players (i.e. not a single comm or named item) is just plain ridiculous and so wrong.

    They have no shame or pride.
    Totally. I enjoy the raid for all the killing you get to do, but it must be hard on healers. Especially if you have a not so organized leader.

    Anyways, I finally got Needle, so not running the raid anymore. No reason to. Possibly after I max destinies, I'll try an EE one for fun. 13 tries and no reason to go on

    (edit: I should add, to reach the equipment goals I have for my character, CitW is just a time sink now. It was worth running until I got my CitW weapon. Now it's too time consuming, especially when I have to run the Web chain over and over to get the trinket that goes with CitW weapons. To get commendations, I'll just run FOT.)
    Last edited by Singular; 04-14-2013 at 04:55 AM.

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