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  1. #21
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I don't see touch screen inputs replacing keyboard/mouse/gamepad/joystick inputs any time soon in a lot of games. Humans just aren't precise enough at inputting on touchscreens to get the level of control you have even on a keyboard, much less a mouse, because our fingers are too 'fat'. A stylus type device could work but they've never been popular in gaming and whereas a mouse or joystick does not amplify human shakes, a stylus by its nature does.

    Two factors have led to the rise of the microtransaction model:

    1) Reductions in the cost of distributing games (remember when Diablo 2 came on four CDs in a box that needed to be kept in a locked cabinet in a retail store that had to pay employees and rent? Or when NES games cost $80 in Australia?)
    2) The financial crisis seriously hammering the disposable income of the lowest 60-70% of income earners.

    In this context, microtransactions gets a small amount from that 60-70% (who might be willing to spend $20 on a game but won't spend $60), and has a chance to get enormous returns from a small minority of the 30-40% that still have reasonable disposable incomes.

    I would not be surprised to see totally different models exist in the future. Possibly cheap 'buy once, own forever' games which put out frequent cheap 'expansions', possibly something else altogether. The limiting factor for the pay-to-cheat microtransaction model is that the whales continue to dry up.



    Edit: Oh and on WOW specifically - Interesting how well a game with almost no pay-to-cheat continues to do in the microtransaction 'era'. Ditto EVE Online (which has minor pay-to-cheat but a lot less than DDO).
    I think what you are forgetting to factor in is the younger generation. In 15 years they will be in their late teens, 20's, and 30's which will make them the money maker for game producers. The younger generation grew up playing on touch interfaces (smart phones and various pads), and they dont mind the loss of precision. They even view desktop machines as something their parents do work on, not as a gaming platform. At least they have more experience with consoles.

    With a potential cash cow growing up demanding touch interfaces, I forsee R&D dollars in the technology's future. Is there an popular OS company today that does not make a touch screen focused OS? I cant see touch screens ever being popular with desktops because of the need to reach across your keyboard to touch the screen. However, I do see the laptop becoming the defacto PC in an increasingly portable focused world. That trend is already in place. In addition to ever increasing laptop sales, how many people post for technical help on the DDO forums say they are using laptops to run DDO? I would argue its about 50/50.

    As far as WoW, my point was that the eventual migration away from traditional desktop based MMO's would be the real source of its eventual downfall, not competition like everyone thinks.Only the inevitable change of the market itself can kill WoW. Well, that and if they pull something like SWG did.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  2. #22
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Out of interest, given that a lot of development time goes into 'fine details' in art assets and the like, how would you feel about paying less for the content but the graphics/sound etc being of a lower quality?

    I for one would much rather 2-3 times the content with less focus on fine details.
    I would rather DLCs just come with a bunch more content for the price.

    I just don't like how a game costs $60 for 100 hours of content. Then releases a DLC for 1/4th the price of the actual game at $15, but doesn't come with 1/4 the amount of content compared to the actual vanilla game. It will come with about 10 hours of extra content, and a couple easy to drop in items. If they're going to charge you the equivalent of 1/4th the price of the vanilla game, at least make it comparable to 1/4th of the game in content size.
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  3. #23
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Part of the problem you see nowadays is from WoW. Sad to say it but it is true.

    People want a finished game. Game developers no longer can afford to spend 5-6 years developing a MMO without money coming in from somewhere. So you get a game that comes out partially finished ( SWTOR ) with no end game made yet. They make things as they go because they cannot have a finished product like WoW. People tend to forget that WoW is 10 or more years in the making at this point.
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    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
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    Portals.

  4. #24
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    Part of the problem you see nowadays is from WoW. Sad to say it but it is true.

    People want a finished game. Game developers no longer can afford to spend 5-6 years developing a MMO without money coming in from somewhere. So you get a game that comes out partially finished ( SWTOR ) with no end game made yet. They make things as they go because they cannot have a finished product like WoW. People tend to forget that WoW is 10 or more years in the making at this point.
    Don't forget, and stealing every good feature from every other game.
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  5. #25
    Community Member llyrnionfor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    People want a finished game. Game developers no longer can afford to spend 5-6 years developing a MMO without money coming in from somewhere. So you get a game that comes out partially finished ( SWTOR ) with no end game made yet. They make things as they go because they cannot have a finished product like WoW. People tend to forget that WoW is 10 or more years in the making at this point.
    SWTOR... what exactly did this game promise, before launch?

    Did they say "We definitely won't be WoW at launch, and while we'll have a diverse range of quests/activities, we'll be supplementing those afterwards, and we'll be growing the game with time"? And did they finish with a sensible argument, like yours: "Blizzard has been at it for 10+ years (including 3 years between announcement and release), we can't duplicate that in 1-2 years"?

    Or did they say "Come and get it, everyone, here's your WoW-killer"?

    People don't like being cheated, that's a fact.

    Will people stick with an MMO more limited in scope as it grows? I don't know. There's too many variables on that equation, the most important being the ever-elusive concept of fun.
    "Peace favor your sword - Shienaran warrior's blessing" (The Eye of the World)

  6. #26
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    That's why I just try to accept the games I play for what they are and adapt to the changes. DDO and LoTRO changed a lot when they went F2P.

    It hits the original players kind of hard because it changes a lot...these were not on the F2P model to begin with so things had to be adjusted quite massively and that will be a process that will keep going now in a bigger scope because it's not just about making a small amount of subs happy.

    Tolerance is really a big issue for a lot of us....the important thing to remember is you usually keep most of what you have.......it's only when you think you're losing everything and over-react that you actually put yourself in danger of losing more than you actually initially were going to.

    And besides.....what change may take away........it gives back to you in a new form.......it's just becomes a treasure hunt at that point...so be a pirate.......YARRRRR!!!

    Scratt for president!!!!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musouka View Post
    Also, I sincerely dislike how a digital copy costs the exact same as a physical copy of some games. There is an obvious reduced cost of a digital copy. The price of producing 100,000 DVDs, Booklets, Boxes, and shipping costs more than hosting a download for 100,000 downloads of a game, especially if they use some sort of software similar to pando. So why can't they pass that savings onto the consumer?
    The actual addition to the cost of the physical component is tiny given the bulk they are produced in.
    What you are actually paying for in a game is the development time: Staff. wages, building rent, interest on the loans required etc. Possibly also operating costs of the game such as debugging etc even if there is no more paid content released or servers to keep going.

  8. #28
    Community Member Notajedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    I play 2 other MMOs (lightly, of course): Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2. It would be hard to see one or both of these have the same longevity as DDO.

    I've seen a lot of posts suspecting some impending update to be a 'cash out' before they shut down the game. In my opinion that isn't really happening. We are now well on our way to the second major expansion. These are higher risk (and higher reward) because they require more development resources but make more revenue. High risk high reward is pretty atypical of a project that is expected to soon fail.

    We have now gone through many new MMOs - people left to go play SWTOR and came back, people left for NWO and came back. There isn't really a replacement for this game. It's a bit grindy and exceedingly difficult for new players (I would never be able to start fresh on a new server again being dirt poor) but that's part of the charm.
    1. Daily Dice Silver Roll, you get 1000 or so plat every fourth day.
    2. Essences you can still sell essences at 100 plat per greater, maybe even more. But 100 plat will get them gone.
    3. Events - Risia Ice Games, Mabar, you can sell recipes and motes and make a bazillion quite quickly.

    There are other ways to do it also,

    BTW, I know this because I play on multiple servers to grind TP.

    I also buy a lot of gear at the brokers. I am amazed at what I can stumble upon at the broker on other servers.

    The main problem with starting on a new server are the big ticket items that make it easier. Collectable Bags, Collapsed Portable Holes now those are hard to find at low levels and drain your plat reserve quickly.

    Sometimes, it is sort of fun to go run on another server when you are sick of doing the same raid over and over.

    BTW, I don't think the gaming industry is in trouble.
    If your self-esteem is based on a game and a message forum. it must be a dump stat

  9. #29
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatzhas View Post
    The actual addition to the cost of the physical component is tiny given the bulk they are produced in.
    What you are actually paying for in a game is the development time: Staff. wages, building rent, interest on the loans required etc. Possibly also operating costs of the game such as debugging etc even if there is no more paid content released or servers to keep going.
    Regardless of how tiny it is, why can't I save the dollar?
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    This sums up my thoughts too.

    There has been a definite shift away from 'get a moderate amount of money from each player' toward 'find the sucker with lots of money and take their whole wallet'.
    Yep. Stones of XP and Astral Shards being the perfect examples.

    Mind you, as someone who doesnt spend much on games, I am happy for others to fund my entertainment !

    Quote Originally Posted by llyrnionfor View Post
    Or did they say "Come and get it, everyone, here's your WoW-killer"?

    People don't like being cheated, that's a fact.
    Ive never understood why game companies fall in to this trap of hyped expectations. What is wrong with them saying "We know WoW is huge, we are not going to claim to beat them, but we have definite aims of being number 2 within a year, and after that who knows !!"
    Last edited by Jasparion; 03-26-2013 at 09:43 PM.

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