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  1. #1
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    Default Playing a monk for past life feats for a rogue

    Im currently on my third life of fighter. I want to build up some past life feats to build up a good rogue. The three lives of fighter will give me the +3 to attack, and I'm thinking of doing some Monk lives to get the past life feats for damage. My quetion is, is it worth it? Will the +1,2, or 3 to damage really make that big of a difference? Or are there classes that will give me better past life feats for a rogue? Or should I just go ahead and do my rogue after this life?

    In the meantime, I've been doing some research on monks, and they seem like a pretty difficult class to play. I'm probably going to build one at vet level and just play around with it for a few levels to get a feel for it, but it's still hard to get a full feel for a class by just doing a few levels. Is there one particular path that is easier to play than others?

    Any other comments or suggestions are welcome.

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    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    My quetion is, is it worth it? Will the +1,2, or 3 to damage really make that big of a difference? Or are there classes that will give me better past life feats for a rogue? Or should I just go ahead and do my rogue after this life?
    If you want to be the best Rogue you can, I suppose you could consider it worth it. Otherwise the difference from past lives give is minor and can easily go unnoticed.
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    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    I like human or half-elf light side monks for sel-healing and if your good at leveling a tr fast I think the past lives could be worth it. I am slow at leveling but my main has 3 monk past lives and I like to think it helps.


    Some Artie past lives could help your UMD a little but rogues can usually get that high enough already.


    The monk lives would also add to repeater damage if you use one of those and if you do some ranger past lives would also help there between monk and ranger lives you could get up to +9 to your ranged damage and have +3 for nonranged.

    Monks are actually very easy to play you just need to learn to use their abilities I don't use all of my monks abilities but I do use healing ki stunning fist and quivering palm quite bit. In ToD grasp of the earth dragon is nice or when you fight mobs that like to stun.

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    Community Member Imatotalnoob's Avatar
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    Past life arty is +1 to all int skills.
    The active feat on the fighter is good until your bab get higher(rogue life)

    Ranger +2 ranged damage if you go that way
    Rogue for +1 sneak and more important trap saves.

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    Thanks so far for all the advice. I'm still wondering though, if I understand the past life feats.

    The fighter +3 to attack is more or less a +3 to my BAB correct?

    And the +3 damage would more or less only be 3 more H.P. taken off an enemy on a successful strike no?

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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    IMO past lives have become somewhat less attractive with the introduction of epic destinies.

    However, if a person really was committed and wanted the best in a rogue I would suggest:

    3 x fighter -- this is +3 to hit, not BAB but on top of BAB like weapon + or STR bonuses.
    3 x monk -- this is +3 to damage and, given attack speeds and regularity of off-hand attacks is a worthwhile boost in the space of an attack chain.
    3 x artificer -- this is +3 to UMD and effectively like Skill Focus: UMD which saves a feat for better things (assuming you even used that feat) as well as reducing gear requirements.

    After that it becomes somewhat more a matter of how you play v how others play. Paladin, barbarian and ranger all have things worth considering. But, how carried away do you want to get?

    Of course, 3 x rogue is a given. If you're going to settle in as a rogue you may as well do it 4 times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    if a person really was committed and wanted the best in a rogue I would suggest:

    3 x fighter -- this is +3 to hit, not BAB but on top of BAB like weapon + or STR bonuses.
    Hmm... this actually confuses me a little. I thought it would basically just add 3 to any dice roll I make to attack and enemy to see if I hit or not. which is why I thought it would be more or less the same as adding to my BAB. Is this not accurate? If not, could you elabortae?

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    3 x monk -- this is +3 to damage and, given attack speeds and regularity of off-hand attacks is a worthwhile boost in the space of an attack chain.
    A little confused again. I thought this was, more or less, essentially just adding 3 to any of my damage rolls, so If I rolled, for example, a 1d8 on a damage roll, and scored a 6, I would do 9 damage. Is this again accurate? And of course, if not, would you sir, please be so kind as to elaborater again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    3 x artificer -- this is +3 to UMD and effectively like Skill Focus: UMD which saves a feat for better things (assuming you even used that feat) as well as reducing gear requirements.

    After that it becomes somewhat more a matter of how you play v how others play. Paladin, barbarian and ranger all have things worth considering. But, how carried away do you want to get?

    Of course, 3 x rogue is a given. If you're going to settle in as a rogue you may as well do it 4 times.
    Yeah, I dont know if I want to get that carried away! My concern is even after doing 2 lives of fighter, I'm already feeling a bit burned out on the game. I think if I now did 3 lives of monk, then 3 of arti, then 3 of barb, and 3 of paly, I'd not even want to play the game anymore.

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    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Once you hit 20!the Ed's are more important but past lives help the journey there each time

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    Hmm... this actually confuses me a little. I thought it would basically just add 3 to any dice roll I make to attack and enemy to see if I hit or not.
    Sort of. With the new to-hit formula, that +3 to-hit might end up being the equivalent of +1. But it will definitely help on high-ac bosses.

    A little confused again. I thought this was, more or less, essentially just adding 3 to any of my damage rolls, so If I rolled, for example, a 1d8 on a damage roll, and scored a 6, I would do 9 damage. Is this again accurate?
    Yep, that's correct. +3 damage is sexy.

  10. #10
    Community Member Onetunge's Avatar
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    I have 3 ranger past lifes and now play rogue (lvl22 atm).
    From past lifes I get +6 to range damage (not using it) and +6 resist to all emelemts (nice at lower lvls, not a big difference later on).

    On most EN and EH I outkill other players, only on EE my kill rate starts to slow down.

    MY oppinion: past lifes are not esential for a good rogue.

    It does make minor difference depending which path you pick. I'm Assasin. However with items I rarely have trouble with traps and locks. For UMD I got a lot of CHA items so I'm able to use Heal and Raise Dead scrolls, onnly hassle is I need to reequip some to be able to use Heal scroll 100%.

  11. #11
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    Thanks so far for all the advice. I'm still wondering though, if I understand the past life feats.

    The fighter +3 to attack is more or less a +3 to my BAB correct?

    And the +3 damage would more or less only be 3 more H.P. taken off an enemy on a successful strike no?
    It's +3 to hit, not +3 Base attack bonus. For example, the bonus from fighter past lives won't let you qualify for the improved critical feat (which requires a +8 BAB) any faster. In addition, higher base attack bonus increases attack speed a small amount. That why you see melee divines running divine power all the time, even though they are already getting +6 strength (or more) from an item.

    Due to the changes in how to hit is determined, the +3 to hit from 3 fighter past lives is not a useful as it used to be.

    However, the +3 tactical feat DC can still be quite useful. For example, if you take stunning blow, you'll benefit from the +3 DC.

    ---------------------

    I'd say that the most important past life to collect for the majority of melees is paladin, since it gives you more healing amp.

    Of course, to really 'learn' the benefits of healing amp, you should probably play a healing amp focuses paladin or monk. Then learn to apply the same thing to other builds.

    ---------------------

    Note that the monk past life damage bonus is per attack so, like sneak attack, it benefits TWF more than it does THF. It also benefits monks and tempests more, since they manage to squeeze in even more attacks.

    ------------------------------

    And if you don't think you are going to have any fun getting your past lives, then don't get them. There's nothing you really need from past lives.

  12. #12
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    My quetion is, is it worth it? Will the +1,2, or 3 to damage really make that big of a difference?
    I would say that Paladin would be the only really useful Past Life for a Rogue. +3 to-hit will only occasionally mean the difference of one die roll hitting or missing by high levels. +3 damage will be entirely out-shadowed by the damage that you are dealing with an even half-leveled Epic Destiny.

    Getting up to 36 build points can be nice. But the melee past life bonuses are quite miniscule in epic content. Ones that increase your DCs, such as Fighter for tactics, Cleric for Conjuration, Sorcerer for Evocation, Wizard-selected for all spells, etc remained quite powerful. And the ones that increase your Spell Penetration also allowed players to free up Enhancement Points. However, this is rather questionable going forward. It really depends on if the designers want to keep with the trend they set with Epic GH of setting the threshold unobtainable high, or if that was just something that they threw in for this batch of content and will be pulling back from in the future.

    EDIT: To clarify, you might want to head over to DDOwiki and read about the new to-hit system that the developers designed back in Update 14. It used to be that you were rolling your attack roll, then comparing it to the opponent's AC. And at that time, +3 to-hit was a pretty big deal. Assuming that you were not capping the range of the 20 sided dice it would be a 15% increase in your chance to hit. Now, however, it is on a diminishing returns formula. Meaning that someone who is moderately well geared will likely only see a 0% to 5% increase in their chances to hit their target with +3 to-hit.
    Last edited by THOTHdha; 03-18-2013 at 06:28 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    Hmm... this actually confuses me a little. I thought it would basically just add 3 to any dice roll I make to attack and enemy to see if I hit or not. which is why I thought it would be more or less the same as adding to my BAB. Is this not accurate? If not, could you elabortae?



    A little confused again. I thought this was, more or less, essentially just adding 3 to any of my damage rolls, so If I rolled, for example, a 1d8 on a damage roll, and scored a 6, I would do 9 damage. Is this again accurate? And of course, if not, would you sir, please be so kind as to elaborater again?



    Yeah, I dont know if I want to get that carried away! My concern is even after doing 2 lives of fighter, I'm already feeling a bit burned out on the game. I think if I now did 3 lives of monk, then 3 of arti, then 3 of barb, and 3 of paly, I'd not even want to play the game anymore.
    as a few posters have mentioned various stats are linked to BaB, so a bonus to BaB changes many things. as a pure rogue you can benefit from +5 BaB at lvl20 by using a divine power spell (clickies from items or maybe scroll via UMD).

    that's why the advice so far has made it clear a BaB bonus is not the same as the straight to-hit bonus the fighter past life gets.

    when it comes to beating mobs round the head with a chair then both BaB and to-hit bonuses add up to see if you clock them round the nogging. but there are so many other things BaB affects that you should bear in mind a to-hit bonus is only for the head battering part of combat.
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  14. #14

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    One example is PRR, which is calculated based on your BAB. Your PRR does not get any benefit from fighter past lives.

    Though now that I actually type that out, something like +2 PRR per life (up to +6) should be a past life bonus. I say replace the +1 to-hit from fighter with +2 PRR, leaving the +1 tactical DC as-is.

    Another example is the active DR you get from shield blocking.

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    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jingwei View Post

    I'd say that the most important past life to collect for the majority of melees is paladin, since it gives you more healing amp.
    This ^

    Also - Barbarian for More HPs!

  16. #16
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Paladin 14/Rogue Acrobat 6 {Quarterstaff Specced Hunter of the Dead}!

    Barbarian 10/Rogue 8/Fighter or Monk 2 for your Barb Lives.

  17. #17

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    The fighter +3 to attack is more or less a +3 to my BAB correct?
    No. It is +3 AB, not BAB. BAB influences a lot more things than just how often you hit. Feat qualification, PRR from armor, attack speed increases...past lives will not help with these things.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    Hmm... this actually confuses me a little. I thought it would basically just add 3 to any dice roll I make to attack and enemy to see if I hit or not. which is why I thought it would be more or less the same as adding to my BAB. Is this not accurate? If not, could you elabortae?
    Maybe I was confused by your question. I thought you were thinking that your BAB progression would become more like that of a fighter. The BAB progression does not change. As a rogue you are always on the 3/4 path.

    But, as you explain it now -- adding 3 to the dice roll -- that is correct. Just like you add the weapon's +2 or your +4 STR modifier to the dice roll, you add the +3 from the fighter past lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    A little confused again. I thought this was, more or less, essentially just adding 3 to any of my damage rolls, so If I rolled, for example, a 1d8 on a damage roll, and scored a 6, I would do 9 damage. Is this again accurate? And of course, if not, would you sir, please be so kind as to elaborater again?
    Yes, that is correct. If you normally do d8 damage and roll a 6 the +3 from monk past lives would raise the score to 9.

    The idea I was trying to get across is that this does not seem like much. I mean, it is just 3 more points of damage per hit.

    But, you are going to be getting about 2 hits per second and those 3 points add up fast. Add in that many of them will be critical hits and you see an increase in damage of 160 or more points every minute.

    It is a small increase but still better than no increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by skaught78 View Post
    Yeah, I dont know if I want to get that carried away! My concern is even after doing 2 lives of fighter, I'm already feeling a bit burned out on the game. I think if I now did 3 lives of monk, then 3 of arti, then 3 of barb, and 3 of paly, I'd not even want to play the game anymore.
    I would suggest that you mix it up a little. Don't do all the lives in a row. Just do one and then do a different one. That way, when you get to that burned out point you can stop and just stay there for a while until you get your enthusiasm back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    One example is PRR, which is calculated based on your BAB. Your PRR does not get any benefit from fighter past lives.

    Though now that I actually type that out, something like +2 PRR per life (up to +6) should be a past life bonus. I say replace the +1 to-hit from fighter with +2 PRR, leaving the +1 tactical DC as-is.

    Another example is the active DR you get from shield blocking.
    or to set the builders into a frenzy, 1% double strike for each past life

    but the PRR idea is nice and not horribly unbalancing, and certainly better than the negligible +1 to hit they have now
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    Very informative! Thanks to all so far!

    Whats "PRR"?

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