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Thread: Is AA worth it?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Well, reading your post it seems to suggest that meleeing outside of Manyshot isn't required.
    Its not required for 10k Stars builds, but toons with just manyshot kinda suck without meleeing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    As to 40 WIS being pretty easy, show me the builds for comparison where the AA maintains the same STR as the Tempest but still manages the 40 WIS w/o tanking DEX and CON.
    Ok so, lets start with basics:

    *IPS requires 19 DEX but its automatically granted by 11 ranger levels.
    *10k Stars requires tier 2 Wind Stance, which requires 14 DEX - this means you either start with 10 DEX and eat +4 DEX Tome, or 11 DEX and eat +3 DEX Tome
    * With 12 starting CON and 5 Toughness feats on my Ranger life I was at over 900 HP unbuffed (in FoTW).
    * With DEX at 10/11 and CON at 12, you can afford to put 17 pts in STR and 18 pts in WIS or the other way around (depends on preferances)

    Now some math again:

    STR: 17 base +3/4 Tome +6 level ups +2 Enhancments +12 items +3/4 Destiny +2 Ship Buff +2 Ram's Might = 48
    WIS: 18 base +3/4 Tome +2 Feats +2/3 Enhancments +11 items +2 Destiny +2 Ship Buff = 42

    *Item bonus in STR contains +8, +3 and +1 STR items.
    *Item bonus in WIS contains one +8/+3 item, one +2/+7 and an exceptional +1
    *Of course there are countless other setups that would bring both STR and WIS to more than 40

    This breakdown assumes that you are in Mountain Stance all the time. Its possible to bump STR or WIS by additional 2 just by swapping stances (not to mention all the shorter buffs available).
    Last edited by Shaatan; 03-18-2013 at 01:56 PM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaatan View Post
    STR: 17 base +3/4 Tome +6 level ups +2 Enhancments +12 items +3/4 Destiny +2 Ship Buff +2 Ram's Might = 48
    WIS: 18 base +3/4 Tome +2 Feats +2/3 Enhancments +11 items +2 Destiny +2 Ship Buff = 42
    While a bit off topic, I'm personally interested in this since I just started my Second Ranger life on my AA, and I went with a build pretty similar to your ranger build, although I went with 2 arti for the boosts to UMD/ability to drop mental toughness to save a feat from lack of 2 fighter...

    Anyways, my question is: With these starting stats I'm assuming you would level this a bit differently, and LR into this build? I'm just curious as I can't see how you would make up with such low con/dex at low levels if you did indeed level this way. (Although, you could have gotten some +6 MinLvl0 rings from the madness chain when they were around like I did... but it seemed those were pretty rare..Maybe I was wrong?)

    Or would this not have such a large impact as I think?

    EDIT: Also, way of topic here, but since I've been meaning to ask on these forums anyways, is the Gilvaneors(?) set from TOD needed on a non 20Ranger? Does the lack of attack speed make as large of a DPS difference as this thread seems to indicate?
    Last edited by TheLegendOfAra; 03-18-2013 at 02:46 PM.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    While a bit off topic, I'm personally interested in this since I just started my Second Ranger life on my AA, and I went with a build pretty similar to your ranger build, although I went with 2 arti for the boosts to UMD/ability to drop mental toughness to save a feat from lack of 2 fighter...

    Anyways, my question is: With these starting stats I'm assuming you would level this a bit differently, and LR into this build? I'm just curious as I can't see how you would make up with such low con/dex at low levels if you did indeed level this way. (Although, you could have gotten some +6 MinLvl0 rings from the madness chain when they were around like I did... but it seemed those were pretty rare..Maybe I was wrong?)

    Or would this not have such a large impact as I think?
    I did level this way. To be honest Im not paying much attention to what my build during leveling is, as it goes too fast to even bother in a good TR group. Yet, I dont remember it being particularly bad. I care only for how the build will look like once its capped.

    As for the Arti split. I ve seen those running around and I belive its a nice build. There are some downsides to it too tho:

    1) No Haste Boost (not a really big deal tho)
    2) Lower BAB (this really matters more on ranged toons, than on melees)
    3) This build will be probably even more tight on Action Points than Fighter split
    4) No extra STR from enhancments (depending on how much STR from other sources you have, it might matter more or less)

    But on the plus side you will have:

    1) Decent UMD which would allow you to drop cleric dilly and take something else (Im a big fan of cleric dilly tho, since you have the same chance of success on scrolls even when you are debuffed, level drained or with death penality. Having to care for your UMD will also make it harder to gear your toon properly)
    2) Trap Skills
    3) A pet for occasional lever pulling
    4) Damage Boost that can cover the lack of Haste Boost from Fighter levels

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    EDIT: Also, way of topic here, but since I've been meaning to ask on these forums anyways, is the Gilvaneors(?) set from TOD needed on a non 20Ranger? Does the lack of attack speed make as large of a DPS difference as this thread seems to indicate?
    To be perfectly honest, using this set was kind of no brainer decission for me. Something that gives me a bonus to atack speed, which is permanent, stacks with everything and cant be obtained any other way than with this set (or going 20 ranger), makes it to the list of stuff I want to have without giving it much thought. :P Especially that it fits into my gear setup without sacrificing anything.
    Last edited by Shaatan; 03-18-2013 at 02:57 PM.

  4. #84
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    DELETED -- Reason: Planned future thread comparing combat styles.
    Last edited by Therigar; 03-19-2013 at 11:26 AM.

  5. #85
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    So, if it is a myth, disprove it.
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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    DELETED -- Reason: Planned future thread comparing combat styles.
    Last edited by Therigar; 03-19-2013 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post

    So, the real question remains, is that sufficient DEX to hit on eElite content with only a miss on 1? If not, what is the real hit/miss ratio -- because this has a huge effect on damage.
    Bow to-hits are 31 flavors of fouled up, at 32 DEX and 25 BAB (Tensors) I still see grazes in situations where melee would not.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Bow to-hits are 31 flavors of fouled up...
    +1 for new reference
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Alright, so that part isn't just me then.



    Alright. Human/half-elf/elf requires 36 point build for this, dwarf 34, and half-orc can manage with 32 point build. Drow, halfling and warforged can't get there at all. Just to make sure what we're talking about so that readers have an idea of how practical this is.

    Next, what is your ending DEX? This is the "to hit" number for shooting. The running assumption in my calculations is that every shot hits. But, is that a valid assumption on an build that is 11 base + 5 tome + 3 enhancements (maybe +5 if half-elf) + 8 item + 3 insight + 1 exceptional (all maximum bonuses) + 2 ship for 33 (35 if helf) DEX. Does that produce a miss only on 1 in eElite content?

    If not, what other boosts are you figuring in? Note that I know about weapon bonuses to hit, etc. I'm talking about the base underlying value to which other factors get added.

    This is the real measure of builds. It doesn't do us much good to estimate damage outputs if the build we are discussing cannot hit 19/20 times. And, this is where I'm no longer certain. This is because the mechanic behind to-hit changed with the AC pass.
    Ok, this post totally made me doubt that you have any idea of what you are talking about lol.

    First of all, a toon that isnt half - elf or elf cant be a full AA unless he has atleast 18 ranger levels. AA is a racial PrE for elves and half - elves only ! If you want a dwarf/wf/any other race AA, you have to be (almost)pure ranger for it.

    Secondly, no, DEX is not your "to hit" mod. With Zen Archery, you make WIS your "to hit" stat.

    I thought that such basics go without saying lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    And, to make even more out of this DEX question, note that monk splashed means lower BAB. I know that someone will want to talk Divine Power clickies or scrolled Tenser's Transformation. That is alright -- but then we need to talk about how practical those are and how sustainable and whether they are practical for most players.

    Since DEX produces a modifier to add to BAB on each attack, lower BAB increases the chance to miss even more.

    So, the real question remains, is that sufficient DEX to hit on eElite content with only a miss on 1? If not, what is the real hit/miss ratio -- because this has a huge effect on damage.
    No, monk splash doesnt mean lower BAB, Im really starting to wonder where you r getting all that info from lol. Monk splash equals lower BAB for feat taking purposes, the BAB that your to hit and attack speed rely on is equal to your level as monk.
    Last edited by Shaatan; 03-18-2013 at 03:15 PM.

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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    DELETED -- Reason: Planned future thread comparing combat styles.
    Last edited by Therigar; 03-19-2013 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #91
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    If this holds true then it has a dramatic effect on the numbers we were working with. I'd like more information on this. Particularly from such helpful posters as Kawai.
    i only miss on a 1 sweety.
    hope this helps you.

    turn off the light when you're done.
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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    DELETED -- Reason: Planned future thread comparing combat styles.
    Last edited by Therigar; 03-19-2013 at 11:27 AM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    i only miss on a 1 sweety.
    hope this helps you.

    turn off the light when you're done.
    What's your DEX? Do you run EE?

    I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time believing you don't see grazes like EVERY OTHER ARCHER I KNOW.
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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    DELETED -- Reason: Planned future thread comparing combat styles.
    Last edited by Therigar; 03-19-2013 at 11:27 AM.

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    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    DELETED -- Reason: Planned future thread comparing combat styles.
    Last edited by Therigar; 03-19-2013 at 11:28 AM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    What's your DEX? Do you run EE?

    I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time believing you don't see grazes like EVERY OTHER ARCHER I KNOW.
    Yes, honestly, plenty of EE. More for the fun than the loot.
    Prefer EH loot for 24.
    EE just gets sold to the Must-Have-its.

    ...Though i did just take 25 last night in preps for yet another life to grind.
    so we'll see if any of that would make sense go go after.

    As for the Dex... not sure atm, not in game. and YourDDO isnt accurate either, sadly.
    but i believe me main's is only at 36ish? And the Purebloods is at 40. Which really is wayy too much. but i decided not to blow a Heart of Wood on her. She will TR soon anyway.

    i do remember for sure that her to-hit is hovering around 60, buffed and all. i see a miss from movement/angle odd things every so often, but usually just on a 1 only.

    will track it down after while and find out for sure.

    needless to say, really dont see missing very much at all.
    want to go out on a limb here and suggest that 34 is more than enough.
    ive never been one into testing statistics.
    just end results.
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  17. #97
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    DELETED -- Reason: Planned future thread comparing combat styles.
    Last edited by Therigar; 03-19-2013 at 11:28 AM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaatan View Post

    It doesnt. Builds that dont have 10k Stars are forced to melee outside of manyshot (and a few other situations) to sustain DPS.
    I do not agree with you here although it takes quite a bit more player skill to make this work. Using improved prices shot correctly can mean more dps then melee outside of manyshot even without 10k stars. Best archer ever played with has always run a pure level 20 ranger.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    Yes, honestly, plenty of EE. More for the fun than the loot.
    Prefer EH loot for 24.
    EE just gets sold to the Must-Have-its.

    ...Though i did just take 25 last night in preps for yet another life to grind.
    so we'll see if any of that would make sense go go after.

    As for the Dex... not sure atm, not in game. and YourDDO isnt accurate either, sadly.
    but i believe me main's is only at 36ish? And the Purebloods is at 40. Which really is wayy too much. but i decided not to blow a Heart of Wood on her. She will TR soon anyway.

    i do remember for sure that her to-hit is hovering around 60, buffed and all. i see a miss from movement/angle odd things every so often, but usually just on a 1 only.

    will track it down after while and find out for sure.

    needless to say, really dont see missing very much at all.
    want to go out on a limb here and suggest that 34 is more than enough.
    ive never been one into testing statistics.
    just end results.
    Your DEX is a bit higher, so maybe 2-3 more to-hit.

    I Absolutely do not believe you when you say you only miss on a 1
    Personal d000m level: 83%

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  20. #100
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Yes, it does. Is the reason the same as Shaatan's, that you rely not on DEX but on WIS?

    Do you carry the ranger icon or monk? Or, maybe, something else?

    I'll let you know when I'm done.
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