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  1. #1
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Default anyone still do bowbarian builds?

    I have an old one sitting around holding stuff. Still has the old crit rage enhancements even...

    Looks like monk archers are all the current "rage" (see what I did there?)

    Anyway, I was toying with the idea of playing him a bit again and was wondering if it was worth rearranging him to pick up AA (he is elf) to go with the crit rage...?
    /sigh

  2. #2
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    If you reset to pick up AA stuff say goodbye to your crit rage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  3. #3
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    Not yet, but I am planning on one on my AA at some point for the extra HP from past lives.

    Probably 6 Ranger, 2 Rogue, 12 Barb. Or a variation on that with some Monk levels, not decided.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    Probably 6 Ranger, 2 Rogue, 12 Barb. Or a variation on that with some Monk levels, not decided.
    If you've found a way to combine monk with barb, I'm all ears...

    The two bowbarian builds I've toyed with lately are barb 12 / rgr 6 / rog or ftr or arty 2 and rgr 12 / barb 6 / rog or ftr or arty 2. Going mostly-rgr gets you two more feats, an extra FE, and lvl 2 & 3 spells (you can also get away with kinda ignoring DEX if not going for Combat Archery); while going mostly-barb gets you more & longer Rages and the +1 crit boost from FB II.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you've found a way to combine monk with barb, I'm all ears...

    The two bowbarian builds I've toyed with lately are barb 12 / rgr 6 / rog or ftr or arty 2 and rgr 12 / barb 6 / rog or ftr or arty 2. Going mostly-rgr gets you two more feats, an extra FE, and lvl 2 & 3 spells (you can also get away with kinda ignoring DEX if not going for Combat Archery); while going mostly-barb gets you more & longer Rages and the +1 crit boost from FB II.
    lol, yup brain fart there, you, can't be Barb and Monk at the same time.

    My Monk is my go-to character, it's level 25 with all ED's capped so I think I have Monk on the brain a bit. Was thinking of Ten Thousand Stars (which I still hate btw, 10k Stars should never have been changed to work with bows) and somehow forgot the whole Barb/Monk thing.

    Definitely either 2 Rogue or 2 Arti for me though because of the self healing, 6 Ranger is a no brainer due to the Feats (I wish it wasn't a no brainer, and that the average player felt there was more incentive to take more than 6 levels). My AA is a bit unusual these days its a pure level 20 Ranger. I like it but will never try to claim that it does the most DPS in the history of DPS ever. It does fine though.

  6. #6
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    The problem with bowbarians is they fall seriously far behind with inability to get 10k stars...I honestly haven't seen one since 10k stars started to become popular (but then again, with the stiff feat requirements, I hadn't really seen more than a couple before, either).

    It's just a split that "sounds" good...but its only benefit is burst damage, which is already available in spades.

    However, if you're set on doing it, I'd definitely do 12 barb/6 ranger/2 artificer (saves a feat on mental toughness), and go for Overwhelming Critical as well.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  7. #7
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    Make a 18 barbarian/2 ranger AA with the sorc PL, it has decent TWF and very good bow DPS, need to work it out yourself further tho
    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  8. #8
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you've found a way to combine monk with barb, I'm all ears...
    By using half-elf dilly.

    Note, however, that this isn't really going to have useful barbarian levels (or, it is going to be missing useful monk levels).

    But, if you want to combine attributes of the two classes try half-elf.

  9. #9
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    Make a 18 barbarian/2 ranger AA with the sorc PL, it has decent TWF and very good bow DPS, need to work it out yourself further tho
    The problem with bowbarian is the lack of feats so that you cannot get all the "bow" stuff and still have any room for any melee feats.

    Seems like a waste to not have PA, cleave, great cleave, OC on a barbarian. Seems like a waste to splash 6+ levels of ranger to get bow and melee feats in order to make space for those melee feats.

    So, overall, it just seems like a horrible idea.

    I ended up using a LR to turn my bowbarian project into an AA fighter. Not happy with that either to be real honest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    The problem with bowbarian is the lack of feats so that you cannot get all the "bow" stuff and still have any room for any melee feats.

    Seems like a waste to not have PA, cleave, great cleave, OC on a barbarian. Seems like a waste to splash 6+ levels of ranger to get bow and melee feats in order to make space for those melee feats.

    So, overall, it just seems like a horrible idea.

    I ended up using a LR to turn my bowbarian project into an AA fighter. Not happy with that either to be real honest.
    7 feats + 2 epic feats. Free rapid shot, TWF and bow strength
    1) Toughness
    2) Weapon focus: Ranged
    3) Point Blank
    4) Manyshot
    5) Power Attack
    6) Cleave
    7) Great Cleave
    8) OC
    9) Improved TWF? You probably don't want the dex for greater TWF either way
    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I ended up using a LR to turn my bowbarian project into an AA fighter. Not happy with that either to be real honest.
    I got a toon that is making a AA fighter and it is working out awesome rlly, the AA build (with sorc PL ofc) is
    12 fighter/6 monk/2 ranger: Kensei, AA, Ninja Spy, Helf. 17 feats/2 epic feats with free TWF, bow strength and rapid shot. The build is right now viable melee and ranged, with 10k stars and manyshot. I love it alot
    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  12. #12
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    7 feats + 2 epic feats. Free rapid shot, TWF and bow strength
    1) Toughness
    2) Weapon focus: Ranged
    3) Point Blank
    4) Manyshot
    5) Power Attack
    6) Cleave
    7) Great Cleave
    8) OC
    9) Improved TWF? You probably don't want the dex for greater TWF either way
    You're missing Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot, along with Mental Toughness.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    You're missing Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot, along with Mental Toughness.
    You mean PL sorc, yeah, that's right, remove the improved TWF for PL sorc. No precise shot and imp precise shot. This will definatly not be anywhere near the best AA's but I guess it's like the best option to make a bowbarian that feels like a real barbarian
    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  14. #14
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Like others said you will lose crit rage if make any changes at all. Now with enhancement pass in the future (who knows when) you will lose anyways.

    Bowbarians are still high burst dps archers as are most AA builds. You don't have to be the end all be all Monkcher build to be viable either in all content.

    There are many types of builds out there just as some have posted. If I was doing a bowbarian prob do a 12/6/2 split barb/ranger/rogue evasion is hard to give up but arti 2 would be tempting.
    Proud Officer of The Madborn

  15. #15
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    You're missing Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot, along with Mental Toughness.
    Aside from the MT or Arcane Prodigy (both eating a feat) it is this comment about PS and IPS that I see in virtually every thread on AA. And, no matter how I (or others) try to work around those it always seems to come back to them being absolutely essential to most posters.

    Next issue for me is the one of "how do you hit anything?" If the build passes on DEX then to hit drops. No sense having an AA if it is missing.

    Now, I know that with the AC revamp the to hit element has been modified. But, it is still a concern IMO.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    You mean PL sorc, yeah, that's right, remove the improved TWF for PL sorc. No precise shot and imp precise shot.
    You're also missing Imp Crit, which is a pre-req for OC (and adds more DPS than OC does anyway).

    Re: IPS & AAs - for me the issue is you have to invest so many feats into getting AA that not taking the one feat which gives you ranged DPS vs mobs seems like hamstringing your build. If all you want is the single-target burst DPS which comes from Manyshot, plenty of builds have that without being AAs (like Juggernaut or every Tempest I build ever); but if you choose to be an AA, it implies you wish to focus on archery.

    E.g., a non-AA FB III build w/Manyshot might be barb 18 / rgr 1 / ftr 1: PA/CL/GC/IC:S/OC, Bow STR (free w/rgr splash), PBS, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, with 2 or 3 feats left over for, e.g., THF chain or Toughness & IC:R or whatnot. Still get FB III and great burst DPS from Manyshot w/out sacrificing two feats to add AA.

  17. #17
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Just fooling around with the builder:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 25 True Neutral Human Female
    (1 Fighter \ 18 Barbarian \ 1 Ranger \ 5 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 404
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 19
    Reflex: 11
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity            15                    17
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 4 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 6 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
    
    
    Level 7 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 9 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 11 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 12 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Trap Sense I
    
    
    Level 21 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 22 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 23 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 24 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 25 (Barbarian)

  18. #18
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Still get FB III and great burst DPS from Manyshot w/out sacrificing two feats to add AA.
    Quantify "great burst DPS" for those of us who dream of an AA barbarian.

    What's the delta when comparing AA w/o FBIII, FBIII w/o AA and AA w FBII but slayer arrows?

    Plus, the idea of most AA builds is to never (or rarely at least) put down the bow.

    IMO it is just not a practical build and won't be unless the enhancement pass changes things.

  19. #19
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    He is only level 17 right now. 14 barb/3 ranger.

    I have to swap a couple feats around before i take more ranger levels to get the AA prerequisists. But I have only spent 61ap so far and have enough left for the full AA line once I swap around the feats.

    I've not run anything with him since taking him off bank duty, but I'm raging to 38 str and 469hp at level 17. Dex was 34 I think. (No party or ship buffs.)

    For feats I see:
    bow str
    rapid shot
    TWF
    precise shot
    manyshot
    ITWF
    WF: ranged
    Point blank
    mental toughness
    Imp crit: ranged
    Imp crit: slash
    precise shot
    imp precise shot
    (toughness) not sure this will work, I think I have a feat stuck under a ranger level that fred won't swap...

    Would normally go THF for non-bow work, but with ITWF for free, might do some TWF... not sure.

    Figured I'd go to 6 ranger, but I could do 4 ranger and 2 fighter and have an extra feat. My concern here would be only just getting ranger spells and the requirement for sp to activate the arrow imbues.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by redoubt; 03-16-2013 at 12:59 AM.
    /sigh

  20. #20
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    How about ftr 12/barb 6/ rgr 2. Not sure if this is a true bowbarian, but it might be interesting to stack rage with power surge.

    I'd like to try making a bowbarian, and a kensei archer, and a monkcher someday. The thing with monkchers is that they have to max wisdom right? So your damage per shot is considerably less? And the monkcher absolutely must melee every cycle, not only to build up ki for 10k stars, but also because their single shot arrows are likely not doing that much damage.

    Does synergy with fury of the wild favor high strength builds compared to monkchers? During manyshot this would obviously be true, but what about normal adrenaline shots? I suppose if you could reliably fire 2 or more arrows with adrenaline during 10k stars that might make up for it.

    Has anyone actually tested the numbers to prove that monkchers are always the highest overall ranged dps? I've read that 40 wisdom is what you want to shoot for with a monkcher. How exactly do you do that? Is it only possible to reach that number with ED twists and max epic gear? What if you only manage a wisdom of 32? How well does it work then?

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