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  1. #1
    Community Member undercover69's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Some AA loving help please :)

    Looking for some feedback if I'm doing this right. Been away from the game a long time and now I'm fooling around with an AA (and a barb on the side but this topic is about the AA).

    I would love some feedback on: 1) are the feats ok? Did I miss something crucial or overlooked something? Especially the FE, am I right with these choices?

    2) Do the enhancements make sense? Seems the game changed a lot and dunno if these enhancements are ok now (or ever were).

    3) Stat-wise, it's ok to just pump up DEX as much as I can or should give CON or STR some lvl-up raises?

    4) Anything else I missed?

    Thanks a lot for the attention.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Aberlea Von Stradhen Ranger
    Level 20 Neutral Good Elf Female
    (20 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 282
    Spell Points: 385 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 22
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    16
    Dexterity            18                    30
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom               10                    10
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                    21
    Bluff                -1                    -1
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                  0                     0
    Hide                  7                    31
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  7                    25
    Listen                0                     2
    Move Silently         7                    31
    Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                     1
    Spot                  4                    24
    Swim                  3                     3
    Tumble                5                    11
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer I
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
    Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elf
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Master of Archery
    Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore III
    Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore II

  2. #2
    Community Member Limey's Avatar
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    FE seems OK, dex isnt that important. Str and Con are unless (see below)

    Things people will post soon:

    Pure rangers dont make the best AA's, look on forum for monkchers, if you do one of these you need high wisdom.

    Elves dont make the best AAs, I somewhat disagree with this one.

    Either way dex 18 to start is too high.

  3. #3
    Community Member undercover69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limey View Post
    FE seems OK, dex isnt that important. Str and Con are unless (see below)

    Things people will post soon:

    Pure rangers dont make the best AA's, look on forum for monkchers, if you do one of these you need high wisdom.

    Elves dont make the best AAs, I somewhat disagree with this one.

    Either way dex 18 to start is too high.
    Thanks! Was worried I wouldn't be hitting if I didn't put all in dex

  4. #4
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    A few misconceptions about AA's:

    1 - I need high dexterity or I'll never hit mobs in end-game.
    You don't need high dexterity in order to hit. It is very easy in DDO to have high attack/to-hit by end-game. Epic destinies help with this, too, making it overkill. A newbie pitfall is pumping high dexterity and neglecting strength; it's just simply not needed and has greatly contributed to people looking down on AA's as poor dps.

    2 - Arcane Archers have low damage.
    People are so used to these poorly-built, high-dexterity AA's that they have a preconception that they have very low dps. Not true. An AA's dps does not come from normal hits, which, compared to fighters, barbarians, etc is quite low. No, AA's have dps through critical hits (longbows have a x3 modifier for a reason). Seeker/exceptional seeker is extremely important to AA's, as is high strength. The bonus rangers get to favored enemies (up to a whooping +14 damage with enhancements) greatly scales critical hits against these types of mobs (which, if you choose wisely, can be a lot of different types). Add seeker bonuses, strength bonuses, ranger favored enemy bonuses, slayer arrows, ranger past lives, gear that boosts damage, and a good longbow (like the sinew or pinion) and you can see some spectacular critical hits. On a side note, if AA's had low damage there wouldn't 1001 monkchers running about, would there?

    3 - Elves make horrible arcane archers.
    There's a reason they have the racial Arcane Archer PrE. Elves get +2 dex right off the bat, +3 through ranger enhancements, and another +2 dex from elf enhancements. With all of that coming in (in addition to tomes and gear), you can easily afford to drop dex to a lower number and pump up strength and constitution for damage and hp. You can also get +2 to damage/attack with longbows, nothing spectacular, but still good, and a +2 to damage/attack when using scimitars, rapiers, and longswords when you need to dual-wield.

    4 - I have a bow on my ranger, I can be ranged all the time.
    No, no, and no. Rangers are about balance and adaptability. Use your bow when it is advantageous to you or when you don't want to get close to enemies (like hard-hitting ogres or giants). Using a bow up close with 4-5 mobs around you is silly, as it is more advantageous to be TWF melee in that situation. You bow is for pulling mobs to you/the party or used in critical situations where you need to keep moving. The only time you should be 100% ranged is when you are level 20+ with a lot of good gear designed specifically to augment your ranged dps.


    I've successfully made 2 pure elf AA ranger lives on one of my characters (designed specifically for ranged dps through rangers, artificers, monks, and rogues). Properly built, AA's can be a great class to play. Poorly built, they only contribute to the ignorance surrounding the PrE.

  5. #5
    Community Member undercover69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    A few misconceptions about AA's:

    1 - I need high dexterity or I'll never hit mobs in end-game.
    You don't need high dexterity in order to hit. It is very easy in DDO to have high attack/to-hit by end-game. Epic destinies help with this, too, making it overkill. A newbie pitfall is pumping high dexterity and neglecting strength; it's just simply not needed and has greatly contributed to people looking down on AA's as poor dps.
    I'm guilty of this

    2 - Arcane Archers have low damage.
    People are so used to these poorly-built, high-dexterity AA's that they have a preconception that they have very low dps. Not true. An AA's dps does not come from normal hits, which, compared to fighters, barbarians, etc is quite low. No, AA's have dps through critical hits (longbows have a x3 modifier for a reason). Seeker/exceptional seeker is extremely important to AA's, as is high strength. The bonus rangers get to favored enemies (up to a whooping +14 damage with enhancements) greatly scales critical hits against these types of mobs (which, if you choose wisely, can be a lot of different types). Add seeker bonuses, strength bonuses, ranger favored enemy bonuses, slayer arrows, ranger past lives, gear that boosts damage, and a good longbow (like the sinew or pinion) and you can see some spectacular critical hits. On a side note, if AA's had low damage there wouldn't 1001 monkchers running about, would there?
    I think it depends to who you compare it. Barbs also get great crits. My DPS calculations always include the crits and AA (pure ranger) is quite below pure offensive melees. Nonetheless Thanks a lot for the bonuses explanations!

    3 - Elves make horrible arcane archers.
    There's a reason they have the racial Arcane Archer PrE. Elves get +2 dex right off the bat, +3 through ranger enhancements, and another +2 dex from elf enhancements. With all of that coming in (in addition to tomes and gear), you can easily afford to drop dex to a lower number and pump up strength and constitution for damage and hp. You can also get +2 to damage/attack with longbows, nothing spectacular, but still good, and a +2 to damage/attack when using scimitars, rapiers, and longswords when you need to dual-wield.
    My feelings exactly!

    4 - I have a bow on my ranger, I can be ranged all the time.
    No, no, and no. Rangers are about balance and adaptability. Use your bow when it is advantageous to you or when you don't want to get close to enemies (like hard-hitting ogres or giants). Using a bow up close with 4-5 mobs around you is silly, as it is more advantageous to be TWF melee in that situation. You bow is for pulling mobs to you/the party or used in critical situations where you need to keep moving. The only time you should be 100% ranged is when you are level 20+ with a lot of good gear designed specifically to augment your ranged dps.
    Agreed!

    I've successfully made 2 pure elf AA ranger lives on one of my characters (designed specifically for ranged dps through rangers, artificers, monks, and rogues). Properly built, AA's can be a great class to play. Poorly built, they only contribute to the ignorance surrounding the PrE.
    Too bad I didn't make a monkcher

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    A few misconceptions about AA's:

    1 - I need high dexterity or I'll never hit mobs in end-game.
    You don't need high dexterity in order to hit. It is very easy in DDO to have high attack/to-hit by end-game. Epic destinies help with this, too, making it overkill. A newbie pitfall is pumping high dexterity and neglecting strength; it's just simply not needed and has greatly contributed to people looking down on AA's as poor dps.

    2 - Arcane Archers have low damage.
    People are so used to these poorly-built, high-dexterity AA's that they have a preconception that they have very low dps. Not true. An AA's dps does not come from normal hits, which, compared to fighters, barbarians, etc is quite low. No, AA's have dps through critical hits (longbows have a x3 modifier for a reason). Seeker/exceptional seeker is extremely important to AA's, as is high strength. The bonus rangers get to favored enemies (up to a whooping +14 damage with enhancements) greatly scales critical hits against these types of mobs (which, if you choose wisely, can be a lot of different types). Add seeker bonuses, strength bonuses, ranger favored enemy bonuses, slayer arrows, ranger past lives, gear that boosts damage, and a good longbow (like the sinew or pinion) and you can see some spectacular critical hits. On a side note, if AA's had low damage there wouldn't 1001 monkchers running about, would there?

    3 - Elves make horrible arcane archers.
    There's a reason they have the racial Arcane Archer PrE. Elves get +2 dex right off the bat, +3 through ranger enhancements, and another +2 dex from elf enhancements. With all of that coming in (in addition to tomes and gear), you can easily afford to drop dex to a lower number and pump up strength and constitution for damage and hp. You can also get +2 to damage/attack with longbows, nothing spectacular, but still good, and a +2 to damage/attack when using scimitars, rapiers, and longswords when you need to dual-wield.

    4 - I have a bow on my ranger, I can be ranged all the time.
    No, no, and no. Rangers are about balance and adaptability. Use your bow when it is advantageous to you or when you don't want to get close to enemies (like hard-hitting ogres or giants). Using a bow up close with 4-5 mobs around you is silly, as it is more advantageous to be TWF melee in that situation. You bow is for pulling mobs to you/the party or used in critical situations where you need to keep moving. The only time you should be 100% ranged is when you are level 20+ with a lot of good gear designed specifically to augment your ranged dps.


    I've successfully made 2 pure elf AA ranger lives on one of my characters (designed specifically for ranged dps through rangers, artificers, monks, and rogues). Properly built, AA's can be a great class to play. Poorly built, they only contribute to the ignorance surrounding the PrE.
    I would largely agree with Hasty on this, though one thing to remember about number 4 is that switching from a bow to melee weapons can sometimes take a looooooooooooooooong time, sometimes 3 to 4 seconds because you have to wait for the bows firing animation to finish before you can start switching. While I agree that Rangers should ideally make use of their TWF Feats it is perfectly possible to be all ranged all the time depending on your playstyle.

  7. #7
    Community Member Viconiax's Avatar
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    You can put wisdom down to 8, drop dex a little bit, and put those points into strength, str increase your bow damage, you don't need dex to be too high because at high level with ED you can still hit mobs easily with only about 30+ dex. 8 wisdom is enough to start with, at high level, you can simply use +6 wis item which boost your wis to 14 and cast the highest level spell of ranger.

  8. #8
    Community Member undercover69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viconiax View Post
    You can put wisdom down to 8, drop dex a little bit, and put those points into strength, str increase your bow damage, you don't need dex to be too high because at high level with ED you can still hit mobs easily with only about 30+ dex. 8 wisdom is enough to start with, at high level, you can simply use +6 wis item which boost your wis to 14 and cast the highest level spell of ranger.
    Thanks a lot! Will change my build to add more str.

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Caveat: I'm not a fan of pure rgrs. The capstone doesn't add as much ranged DPS as it should and doesn't stack with certain item bonuses; and since elves can take racial AA PrE, you can up your firepower in other ways (even if you don't have access to monk).

    That said, here's my template for a standard elven AA:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 25 True Neutral Elf Female
    (20 Ranger \ 5 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 352
    Spell Points: 410 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 19
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            18                    25
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elf
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost III
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Master of Archery
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance III
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
    
    
    Level 21 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery
    
    
    Level 22 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 23 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 24 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 25 (Ranger)
    Combat Archery is currently broken: the +2% Dodge bonus works; the +1[W] bonus does not. I'm hopeful it will be patched Any Day Now(tm); but if you drop it, this build doesn't need so much base DEX, since all the other ranged feats come free w/rgr (MS, IPS, etc.).

    The final feat slot is blank; options include Power Atk or Emp Heal (for Rejuvenation Cocoon & CSW).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by undercover69 View Post
    Thanks a lot! Will change my build to add more str.
    I read the same advice myself years ago when I first researched my AA Ranger, and in the end I decided that it was decent advice. I then promptly ignored it and started at 10 WIS. My Ranger now has a +4 WIS Tome, +6 WIS Item and +2 WIS from Ship Buffs and a set of Greensteel SP Con Op Bracers and depending on Destiny has between 900 to 1000 SP.

    Do I need a thousand SP all the time? Nope.

    Have there been times when I was glad I did? Hell yes.

    It's two build points to go from 8 to 10 and there's not that much you can do with them once you get into the mid teens on stats, the cost just keeps increasing.

    Just my 2 copper pieces.

  11. #11
    Community Member shenthing's Avatar
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    Default a few questions

    Is dwarf going to hurt from missing out on all the goodies an elven AA gets?
    Rangers have poor will saves, most people suggest dumping Wisdom... What are your suggestions for dealing with mobs throwing will-based spells?
    Finally, I am starting on a new server with 32 pt builds and vet status but I have only purchased monk. Personally, I wouldn't care to go 20 ranger, so I'll splash a level of rogue for traps and UMD. Any suggestions on what to do with other levels?
    Quote Originally Posted by xtchizobr View Post
    you are not "the" sp.
    I AM the SP, the OP, and the OG.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shenthing View Post
    Is dwarf going to hurt from missing out on all the goodies an elven AA gets?
    You lose the elven bonuses to DEX & longbows; but gain dwarven bonuses to axes, CON, HPs, saves vs spells, and Balance. Dwarf AA (vs Tempest) seems like a flavor thing to me, but it should be fine.
    Rangers have poor will saves, most people suggest dumping Wisdom... What are your suggestions for dealing with mobs throwing will-based spells?
    Protection from Evil helps at low lvls; Freedom of Movement helps later on. But what helps best is usually Manyshot right between the eyes.
    Finally, I am starting on a new server with 32 pt builds and vet status but I have only purchased monk. Personally, I wouldn't care to go 20 ranger, so I'll splash a level of rogue for traps and UMD. Any suggestions on what to do with other levels?
    See my Tempest trapmonkey thread; typically I go for rog 2 or a monk or ftr splash for extra feat. Although if you make an elf or HE AA, you don't need so many rgr lvls.

  13. #13
    Community Member Entelech's Avatar
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    There's a simple reason you see a lot of Monkchers:

    Ten Thousand Stars.

    If you have both Manyshot and Ten Thousand Stars, you can alternate between them, interleaving their cooldown periods.

    If you're going to the trouble of building an Arcane Archer, you want to contribute useful DPS more than 16% of the time, and Ten Thousand Stars helps you do that. It cuts down on the amount of swapping weapons back and forth and lets you play more as "I have a bow on my ranger, I can be ranged all the time."
    Last edited by Entelech; 03-24-2013 at 03:29 AM.
    Give a man a fish, and he demands two more tomorrow.
    Teach a man to fish, and he'll leave to find somebody who'll just give him a fish.
    Beat him unconscious with the fish, and it's comedy.

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