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  1. #21
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    The new Flawless White armour has a Shield Bonus: Shield +6, which can be upgraded to Shield +8 at tier 2.

    Dragoncraft Armor has Shield +4 and Restored Dragoncraft Armor has Shield +6.

    Epic Daggertooth's Belt ML:23 has Armor Mastery +3 and ML:24+ has Armor Mastery +4. These provide an enhancement bonus to armored MDB. Note, this is different wording to the old Daggertooth Belt. Not sure if this still does not stack with Fighter Armor Mastery.
    Varz
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  2. #22
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Ok just checked out the Inspire Heroics on Live with dual box. The Text on Inspire Heroics reads....+4 dodge bonus to Armor class....still. The recipient of the song does however get a 4% dodge bonus bump, which in many cases at higher AC levels might actually be a better deal with the resolution system.
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  3. #23
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Oh, you are kidding. That's not cool Well, I guess we could lump that into the Misc bonus. Do you see a problem with that?

    One thing I'm struggling with is the concept of "Insight bonus to Natural Armor". Is it an Insight bonus or a Natural Armor bonus? Am I misunderstanding something there? Is Insight not a separate bonus to AC like I have it listed?

    I'll get everything you guys mentioned since my last reply into the list tomorrow morning. Good stuff guys, thanks.
    Unfortunately, DDO took one of the more confusing rules from PnP and blew it up. In PnP you can have Natural Armor (such as from having a tough hide), and an Enhancement Bonus to Natural Armor (such as from a spell improving your existing NA, or granting you such).

    You can have an armor type (armor, shield, natural, deflection, insight, dodge), and you can a bonus to the armor type.

    So, in DDO you can have a Natural Armor bonus, an Insight to Natural Armor bonus (stacks with NA), a Profane Bonus to Natural Armor (stacks with the previous two), and an Artifact Bonus to Natural Armor (ditto). I believe that's all of the NA-boosting types in DDO at present. Think of it as having a tough hide, knowing how to maneuver to maximize your toughest parts for defense, profane energies suffusing your tough hide and strengthening it, and who the **** knows?
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    So, in DDO you can have a Natural Armor bonus, an Insight to Natural Armor bonus (stacks with NA), a Profane Bonus to Natural Armor (stacks with the previous two), and an Artifact Bonus to Natural Armor (ditto). I believe that's all of the NA-boosting types in DDO at present. Think of it as having a tough hide, knowing how to maneuver to maximize your toughest parts for defense, profane energies suffusing your tough hide and strengthening it, and who the **** knows?
    Yeah, there is:

    Might of the Abishai (3 items): Profane Natural Armor Bonus +1
    Greater Might of the Abishai (3 items): Profane Natural Armor Bonus +3
    Gnashtooth Kobold Shaman Ship Buff: +1 stacking bonus to Natural Armor
    House Kundarak Battlemaster Ship Buff: +1 natural AC
    House Deneith Defender Ship Buff: +1 natural AC

    Off the top of my head, don't recall any artifact bonuses to AC.
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  5. #25
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    Noticed under miscellaneous bonuses you have Human Versatility listed as a perpetual bonus while Fighter/Paladin Action boost is listed as a temporary/situational bonus, despite Human Versatility also being an action boost. Shouldn't they both be temporary/situational bonuses?

  6. #26
    Community Member EricKei's Avatar
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    Uncanny Dodge and Improved UD are both automatically given to both Rogues and Barbarians.

    UD - Level 4 for both

    IUD - Level 4 or Barb, level 8 for Rogue

    Just as a side note -- Each provides a persistent Dodge% bonus, and also a "clicky" Dodge/Reflex save bonus. I don't know if the passives stack with one another (though I doubt it), and I don't have any toons of those classes in that level range that I could use to verify it (just check before/after levelup)
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  7. #27
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the613 View Post
    Shouldn't they both be temporary/situational bonuses?
    Yes, yes they should. Thanks.

    I've essentially finished the initial post (there are some blanks in the Dodge category that I still need to fill in, but that's pretty minor). So now I just need information to keep it up to date. So again, if you guys see anything missing or wrong, do let me know. Or if anything is really confusing that could be better worded. Or whatever you see that could be improved really. Just fire off a post or PM me, and I will get it updated.

    Let's make this thread as definitive as we possibly can!
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  8. #28
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    Is haste spell up there?

  9. #29
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guzzy View Post
    Is haste spell up there?
    It is now. I put it under "Misc" because it is a dodge bonus, with a note that it will probably be changed in an update to a dodge % bonus sometime soon.
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  10. #30
    Community Member Tallyn's Avatar
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    Corruption of Nature and Hide of the Goristro state they add a primal bonus to your Natural Armor. I have not tested to see what this does and does not stack with.

  11. #31
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Now that dodge has changed you might want to add things like blur and displacement as well.

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  12. #32
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallyn View Post
    Corruption of Nature and Hide of the Goristro state they add a primal bonus to your Natural Armor. I have not tested to see what this does and does not stack with.
    My feeling with natural armor is that unlike bonuses will stack (natural, primal natural, profane natural, etc.), but that like bonuses will not (primal natural will not stack with another primal natural). It's sort of a microcosm of the entire system. And then you take all those non-alike bonuses and add them up to get your total natural bonus score. I'm just guessing there, but it makes a certain amount of sense. I hope that is right, I need to get a full grasp of that system in order to duplicate it in the character planner

    If you guys agree, what I might do is break up that section into subcategories to reflect that process.

    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    Now that dodge has changed you might want to add things like blur and displacement as well.
    Yep, will add.
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  13. #33
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    Default +1

    Great work. This has been long needed.

    I fear to think of the work necessary when the enhancement pass comes... but it can't come soon enough!

    Thanks Ron.
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  14. #34
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Oh, you are kidding. That's not cool Well, I guess we could lump that into the Misc bonus. Do you see a problem with that?

    One thing I'm struggling with is the concept of "Insight bonus to Natural Armor". Is it an Insight bonus or a Natural Armor bonus? Am I misunderstanding something there? Is Insight not a separate bonus to AC like I have it listed?

    I'll get everything you guys mentioned since my last reply into the list tomorrow morning. Good stuff guys, thanks.
    If you have items which have:

    +X Natural Armor.
    +X Insight Bonus to Natural Armor.
    +X Primal Bonus to Natural Armor.
    +X Exceptional Bonus to Natural Armor (doesn't exist but you do get it for stats like STR, CON etc so the same principle applies).

    These will stack together because they are different sources of Natural Armor, like bonuses do not stack just like everything else.

    The only exception (sort of) to this is EXCEPTIONAL bonus, if you have a +1 Exceptional STR bonus and a +2 Exceptional STR bonus they will stack. If they were both +1's then they wouldn't.

    Hope this helps

    Stoner81.

  15. #35
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    Now that dodge has changed you might want to add things like blur and displacement as well.
    Actually, these two spells contribute to your "Concealment" percentage (http://ddowiki.com/page/Concealment).

    This is not directly related to AC, although it is quite similar to Dodge. And they have a related cousin named "Incorporeal" (http://ddowiki.com/page/Incorporeal)

    So if I read all this right, you get three separate percentages (Dodge, Concealment, and Incorporeal). The attacker has to successfully roll against each of these separately to score a hit, in addition to their normal ToHit roll based on your AC.

    So that brings up the question: The Dodge % is really not an AC thing anymore, but we are tracking it in this thread (primarily because it used to be, and because there are still vestigial systems that give a Dodge bonus to AC [which I presume the devs will ultimately phase out over time]). Do we also want to track the other two percentages as well? They are ancillary to the AC value, but are related to how easy you are to hit. What do you guys think?
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  16. #36
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    I sadly don't really have anything meaningful to add to your thread at present, but since I have you here and I now have an opportunity to do this, I just wanted to take a moment to say:

    Thank you very much for the Character Planner.

    Used it for a couple of years now and it's been invaluable.

  17. #37
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    Just to confirm that Barkskin pot stacks with Greater Might of the Abishai.
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  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Actually, these two spells contribute to your "Concealment" percentage (http://ddowiki.com/page/Concealment).

    This is not directly related to AC, although it is quite similar to Dodge. And they have a related cousin named "Incorporeal" (http://ddowiki.com/page/Incorporeal)

    So if I read all this right, you get three separate percentages (Dodge, Concealment, and Incorporeal). The attacker has to successfully roll against each of these separately to score a hit, in addition to their normal ToHit roll based on your AC.

    So that brings up the question: The Dodge % is really not an AC thing anymore, but we are tracking it in this thread (primarily because it used to be, and because there are still vestigial systems that give a Dodge bonus to AC [which I presume the devs will ultimately phase out over time]). Do we also want to track the other two percentages as well? They are ancillary to the AC value, but are related to how easy you are to hit. What do you guys think?
    That's a toughie, especially since these are really true defenses in addition to AC.

    If I were you, I'd leave the Dodge/Concealment/Incorporeal calculations for a separate thread. There are so many variables here, from classes, spells, enhancements, spell-like abilities as well as gear, of course, that it might be easier to roll up these calculations by class rather than as a generic lump.

    But these are quite important in defense, now more than ever, for each are separately rolled, which forms a level of defense that avoids an attack altogether rather than absorbing one as AC and PRR do.
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  19. #39
    Legendary Founder Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    If you have items which have:

    +X Natural Armor.
    +X Insight Bonus to Natural Armor.
    +X Primal Bonus to Natural Armor.
    +X Exceptional Bonus to Natural Armor (doesn't exist but you do get it for stats like STR, CON etc so the same principle applies).

    These will stack together because they are different sources of Natural Armor, like bonuses do not stack just like everything else.

    The only exception (sort of) to this is EXCEPTIONAL bonus, if you have a +1 Exceptional STR bonus and a +2 Exceptional STR bonus they will stack. If they were both +1's then they wouldn't.

    Hope this helps

    Stoner81.
    Yeah, that totally helps, thanks. I think I've got a handle on it now. That Exceptional bonus thing is strange. Is that a bug, do you think?

    I worked on this a bit (sorry I haven't done it sooner, I went back into the planner to try to implement some of the stuff we already had, I'll be switching back and forth between the two for a bit).

    I decided to include a discussion of the other defense types (concealment, dodge, incorporeal, and PRR) because they are all interrelated with AC under the general heading of "Defense", they aren't really all that many sources of them (so it's not so hard to write up a source discussion), and because ultimately I want to add those numbers to the character planner as well, so I will also need to get a handle on them

    Still quite a bit on the ToDo list, but hopefully it's taking shape. Let me know, as always, if it's too wordy, or confusing, or I've missed stuff, or gotten anything wrong.
    Last edited by Ron; 03-24-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    The only exception (sort of) to this is EXCEPTIONAL bonus, if you have a +1 Exceptional STR bonus and a +2 Exceptional STR bonus they will stack. If they were both +1's then they wouldn't.
    There have been no +2 exceptional stats for about 9 months now. They were changed to insight bonuses. +3 items are also insight bonuses.
    http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...47&postcount=3

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Wisdom Modifier
    If you have no levels of Monk, your number for this category is zero.
    Half-elf monk dilettante allows you to use 2-5 points of Wisdom to AC on nonmonks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    [*][+1 to +7] Item Effect: “Wisdom” (Random Items)
    There are also +8 wisdom (and dex) items, but afaik they're all named. Also, you've listed shroud/ToD crafted items and monk stances in dex but not in wis; consider replacing with
    • [+1] Item Effect: Exceptional Wisdom (Shroud/ToD Crafted, Named, and random)
    • [+2 to +3] Item Effect: Insightful Wisdom (Shroud/ToD Crafted, Named, and random)
    • [+2 to +4] Monk Stance: Ocean (while in stance)


    Also missing are
    Dexterity Modifier
    • [+2] Item Effect: Alchemical Dexterity (LoB Crafted)
    • [+4] Item Effect: Cannith Combat Infusion [alchemical bonus, temporary] (Fabricator's Bracers)
    • [+1] Feat: Great Dexterity (epic)

    Wisdom Modifier
    • [+2] Item Effect: Alchemical Wisdom (LoB Crafted)
    • [+1] Feat: Great Wisdom (epic)

    Miscellaneous Bonus
    • [+2] Item Effect: Cannith Combat Infusion [alchemical bonus to AC, temporary] (Fabricator's Bracers)
      [+4] Feat: Bulwark of Defense (epic, while using defensive fighting or combat expertise)


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Temporary and Situational Bonuses
    • [+2 to +5] Enhancement: Action Boost (Paladin/Fighter only)
    • [+2 to +5] Enhancement: Human Versatility - Armor Class (Human/Half Elf only)
    • [+2] Action: Active Block (while Blocking)
    Action Boosts were changed to +5/10/15/20, and Ftr/Pal defender prestiges increase your blocking AC bonus by [+1 to +3]


    Finally, Monk Earth stances, Defender prestiges, and combat expertise grant percentage bonuses (multipliers) to your AC, figured in after everything else.


    This is definitely a thread for bookmarking. See also http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4502771 for Eladrin's comments on this AC system. Most notably,
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    A general rule with the new formula is that every doubling of Armor Class pretty much doubles your mitigation. A character with 30 Armor Class will be hit approximately half as often by a specific monster as one with a 15 Armor Class, and one with a 60 Armor Class will be hit approximately one quarter as often as the 15 Armor Class character.
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