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  1. #1
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    Default Epic Battle Engineer Mechanic

    Hi there, I'm back with a build and a video, due to popular request.

    If you're not into lots of build reading, I'll provide the video link to start:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v...DImA&vq=hd1080

    The Battle Engineer Mechanic plays very differently from a Fury of the Wild Arcane Monk Archer, because rather than looking for heavy burst damage, the BEM elects to lay down barrages of crowd control fire and sustained damage.

    Where the FotW Monkcher is a sniper, the BEM is a machine gunner with paralyzing rounds. This gives the BEM a dps advantage over the Monkcher in a longer fight, making each of them effective for different situations. The BEM excels in Epic Elite content, adding unresistable crowd control with Shiradi that makes Epic Elite quests feel smooth and effortless.

    Where a geared FotW Monkcher can drop a non raid boss redname Epic Elite target in 10 seconds or less, the Shiradi Mechanic makes short work of all the other mobs in a dungeon, with near impunity.

    The Shiradi BEM works off a few basic concepts:
    Mechanic lets you apply your int bonus to your crossbow damage
    Artificer lets you use Insightful Strikes + an element of your choice
    Full Improved Evasion and Improved Uncanny Dodge
    Improved Deception and a maxed Bluff make laying down heavy SA damage easy
    UMD allows for self healing and group support
    Great trapping ability for group utility
    Insane Diplomacy for shedding aggro
    Runearms for mob-specific DPS choices


    Basic Build Info:

    Halfling 13 Rogue/7 Artificer
    (I enjoy Halfling for the save bonuses and flavor, optimizers may prefer Half-Elf)
    Str 6
    Dex 18
    Con 14
    Int 24
    Wis 8
    Cha 8

    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot

    Level 2 (Rogue)

    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot

    Level 4 (Rogue)

    Level 5 (Rogue)

    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes

    Level 7 (Artificer)

    Level 8 (Artificer)

    Level 9 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision

    Level 10 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Precise Shot

    Level 11 (Artificer)

    Level 12 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons

    Level 13 (Rogue)

    Level 14 (Rogue)

    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness

    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion

    Level 17 (Rogue)

    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot

    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist

    Level 20 (Artificer)

    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Sneak Attack

    Level 22 (Epic)

    Level 23 (Epic)

    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery

    Enhancements:
    Artificer Damage Boost I
    Artificer Damage Boost II
    Rogue Skill Boost I
    Rogue Skill Boost II
    Artificer Crossbow Attack I
    Artificer Crossbow Damage I
    Artificer Improved Runearm Use I
    Artificer Improved Runearm Use II
    Artificer Battle Engineer I
    Rogue Sonic Trap Lore I
    Halfling Cunning I
    Halfling Cunning II
    Halfling Guile I
    Halfling Guile II
    Halfling Luck I (Fortitude)
    Halfling Luck I (Reflex)
    Halfling Luck II (Reflex)
    Halfling Luck III (Reflex)
    Halfling Luck I (Will)
    Racial Toughness I
    Racial Toughness II
    Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    Rogue Mechanic I
    Rogue Mechanic II
    Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Improved Disable Device I
    Improved Disable Device II
    Improved Disable Device III
    Improved Open Lock I
    Improved Open Lock II
    Improved Open Lock III
    Improved Spot I
    Improved Spot II
    Improved Spot III
    Improved Spot IV
    Force Manipulation I
    Artificer Intelligence I
    Artificer Intelligence II
    Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Rogue Improved Trap Sense II
    Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II

    Let me know what you think. I really enjoy fine tuning these builds. It's what makes DDO fun.

  2. #2
    Community Member CrackedIce's Avatar
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    Currently, I have 1 question for you about this build.

    Having built a vatiant of Helfs Angel (f2p 28 pt version) and currently sitting at level 24, I was wondering whether you really need to get insightful strikes, as I only went for enough dex to be able to get combat archery and my to- hit is fine (especially if add artifact and competence bonuses).

    Why not either go acrobat for knockdown immunity or assassin for 2d6 SA and assasinate ability as you are going to max out intelligence anyway.

  3. #3
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    closely similar to you, i'm thinking using insightful damage instead of strike and have enough dex for feat and to-hit, with enough INT, insightful reflex feat and 2 lvl rogue would = at least regular evasion
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  4. #4
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The build leverages int for both hit and damage, thats the point. Since the mechanic PRE gives int to to damage the player can use iStrikes for to-hit. If you miss even once with the lower dex when you would have hit using the higher int, youve just lost net DPS over all by going assassin.

    Assassin DC would be down alot because level is counted in the DC, if you went that route.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedIce View Post
    Currently, I have 1 question for you about this build.

    Having built a vatiant of Helfs Angel (f2p 28 pt version) and currently sitting at level 24, I was wondering whether you really need to get insightful strikes, as I only went for enough dex to be able to get combat archery and my to- hit is fine (especially if add artifact and competence bonuses).

    Why not either go acrobat for knockdown immunity or assassin for 2d6 SA and assasinate ability as you are going to max out intelligence anyway.
    For me, mechanic fits thematically and gives you great to-hit with insightful strikes. I do still sometimes, even with Tenser's UMD'd, occasionally glancing blow with my shots, and that can be dangerous when you're counting on cooldown abilities to hit for CC. As for assassinate, it's completely unneeded. Not only would you have to close to melee range to use it, but why assassinate and provoke a save when you can sneak and kill 5 mobs in a straight line in 10 seconds with no opportunity for them to hit you back.

    For me, the utility that Mechanic provides is well worth the 7 sneak attack damage I lose from not going assassin. If you wanted to make a variant with the maximum possible damage, a Half-Elf Assassin would seem to fit that bill.

  6. #6
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    I once suggested a similar build and was met with a great deal of skepticism by people who did not see the value in an all INT build. I'm glad to see that it has worked well for you.

    Why did you choose to emphasize the rogue levels rather than the artificer levels? In terms of critical skills both have access to the same things. With high INT the rogue advantage in skill points doesn't seem to be that important. Artificer spells (infusions) would seem to compensate for the loss of 3d6 SA damage.

    Something like rogue 7/artificer 12/fighter 1 would seem to provide the same abilities but with innate Tenser's and other supporting spells as required.

  7. #7
    Sketchy Adventurer aradelothion's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this was with just that particular rune arm, or if you have to equip/activate certain things in a certain order, but I was testing Shiradi on my Juggernaut while using a Lucid Dreams, and Double Rainbow didn't go off once vs several tests on the dummy. I unequipped+equipped the rune arm and DR worked fine. Mildly annoying bug.
    Last edited by aradelothion; 03-10-2013 at 08:04 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I once suggested a similar build and was met with a great deal of skepticism by people who did not see the value in an all INT build. I'm glad to see that it has worked well for you.

    Why did you choose to emphasize the rogue levels rather than the artificer levels? In terms of critical skills both have access to the same things. With high INT the rogue advantage in skill points doesn't seem to be that important. Artificer spells (infusions) would seem to compensate for the loss of 3d6 SA damage.

    Something like rogue 7/artificer 12/fighter 1 would seem to provide the same abilities but with innate Tenser's and other supporting spells as required.
    Heavy rogue gives access to improved evasion+opportunist as well as the improved SA feat (on top of the extra SA from rogue levels) (12 levels required, iirc).


    OP: I noticed you took force I. How's that working out? Are you using it to boost skills like fan of knives/rock throw, or for rune arms, or for shiradi procs? If the former, have you considered investing more heavily into the force/force crit lines? Or would that be too heavy of an AP investment for the expected payoff?

    More along those lines, since it seems like you're aiming for AoE disable/sustained damage output, what about trying to work in a mostly-fully-metad wizard archmage magic missile SLA into the mix? Or is that too far from what you're aiming for? You would, unfortunately, end up losing improved evasion, a large chunk of SA, and opportunist, which kinda sucks.
    Last edited by sandypaws; 03-10-2013 at 09:44 PM.
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  9. #9
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    How was the build leveling up? I'm thinking about trying an arti 6/rogue 6/whatever build for a TR life.

  10. #10
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csivils View Post
    How was the build leveling up? I'm thinking about trying an arti 6/rogue 6/whatever build for a TR life.
    I ran that for my completionist, and loved it. Was probably not as strong as a build that was tailored for each class would have been, but it was good enough to blow through content.

    It gets the advantage of using INT for to-hit and damage, just like this build, and allows you to play and gear each life the same way. However, the end goals are quite extremely different than this build. Where this shoots to maximize your utility in the epic game, just grabbing Mechanic I and Insightful Strikes + Battle Engineer I would probably have a very different feel to it's play style.

    EDIT: Also, you can do 7artificer/6rogue/7class and still get the Past Life for the third class for everything except for Druids. Lets you get some nice enhancements and such.
    Last edited by THOTHdha; 03-11-2013 at 03:20 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnsharDarkangel View Post
    Halfling 13 Rogue/7 Artificer
    (I enjoy Halfling for the save bonuses and flavor, optimizers may prefer Half-Elf)
    May I humbly {well not so humbly actually} suggest DROW!

    +2 Int & Cha

    Dex Enhancements!

    Spell Resistance!

    Of all the classes and builds that Drow is good at Rogue Mech/Arti is Number 1!

  12. #12
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    This is about the coolest thing I've seen in a while.

    Just started leveling Shiradi on my pure mechanic, can't wait to get all that cool CC.

    One question, you have Combat Archery, is it fixed for crossbows now? I did some testing back in November or so and it didn't work then.
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  13. #13
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default Like it

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    Character Compendium
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  14. #14
    Community Member Trowa88's Avatar
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    Interesting build, certainly given my final life plans pause for thought!

    Speaking of assassinate have you considered the enhancement pass's proposed changes?
    Halflings would get assassin as a racial pre under the current plans and be able to use character level not class level for Dcs allowing you to get a pretty much EE worthy assassinate score (and some other goodies like Assassin's trick for SA immunity bypass) whilst still investing into battle engineer and mechanic deeply.

    Not that you need such things! but every little helps surely.

    What buffed saves are you usually running with? And how does your HP hold up in EEs? I doubt you're getting hit much but with current endgame I've found 550ish to be a bit light in my experiences so far.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandypaws View Post
    OP: I noticed you took force I. How's that working out? Are you using it to boost skills like fan of knives/rock throw, or for rune arms, or for shiradi procs? If the former, have you considered investing more heavily into the force/force crit lines? Or would that be too heavy of an AP investment for the expected payoff?
    I took force because one AP investment raised my force damage by 40%, and that seemed like a perfect way to spend that point, especially with all the force procs in Shiradi. When I finally get my red slot in my Needle, I'll be putting Impulse 114 in it for the same reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    One question, you have Combat Archery, is it fixed for crossbows now? I did some testing back in November or so and it didn't work then.
    No idea, haven't tested that feat extensively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trowa88 View Post
    What buffed saves are you usually running with? And how does your HP hold up in EEs? I doubt you're getting hit much but with current endgame I've found 550ish to be a bit light in my experiences so far.
    My Reflex is sitting around 53 self buffed without a twist invested in raising it (more with Tea with the Queen). My other saves are in the mid forties, which is decent considering.

    As for HP, I'm nearly ALWAYS the last character in my group to die, unless I'm given some kind of weird dangerous job involving kiting or keeping aggro. Being able to drop a +79 Diplomacy check keeps aggro off of me, a +69 Bluff check keeps me generating less aggro than most toons do dealing the kind of damage I do. When I do have aggro, I almost always have Tendon Slice and Pin on the mob, making it easy to stay out of melee where most mobs do their damage.

    Finally, I have Improved Uncanny Dodge, so if I feel like I'm about to get aggro I can't control, I always pop that. Along with my incorporeality and blur/umd'd displacement, it's pretty hard to pin my Mechanic down for 10 full seconds. I also have Tea with the Queen, which is basically an easy way to completely reset aggro. Once a mob tries to hit you during Tea, they immediately make a bee-line for something they can actually hurt.

    You'll notice in the video that when I have to jump over a mob that isn't crowd controlled, I always pop improved uncanny dodge. It's a 10 second I win button.

    I can solo all of Epic Elite Tor except for the Dragon fights, so I'd say my survivability is more than adequate, even end game. You can only have so many hitpoints on an Int based Mechanic/Battle Engineer. I'm missing 5hp from the top tier of False Life (because I'm using a Legacy GFL epic slot), 25hp from a Yugo Pot, and 45hp from not having a Greensteel +HP item. I don't miss those hp at all, in my opinion. Really, the opposite is true. I feel very hard to kill.

  16. #16
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    Default Itemization Request

    Per a request, here is my gear.

    Also, I found out that spellpower items only enhance Shiradi procs if the effect proccing them is also a spell. That means a +114 Impulse slot and the +40 Force Spellpower I had in the build originally serve no purpose. I have since respecced.

    Helm Helm of the Blue Dragon - Charisma +8, Intelligence +7, Exceptional Wisdom +1
    Goggles Dream Visor - Attack/Damage +5, Spot +20, Insightful Wisdom +2
    Lenses of the Woodsman - True Seeing
    Necklace Epic Golden Guile - Ghostly, Diplomacy +20, Bluff +20, Improved Deception, Charisma Skills +1, Deathblock
    Chest Hide of the Goristro - +6 Enhancment, Constitution +8, Toughness, Natural Armor +3, Melee Alacrity 10%, Tendon Slice +10%, Woodsman's Guile
    Cloak Jeweled Cloak - 25 Spell Absorption, Inherent Resistance 10, Heavy Fortification, Insightful Intelligence +2
    Bracers Bracers of Twisting Shade - Disable Device +20, Search +20, Exceptional Seeker +5, Blurry, Resistance +7
    Gloves Nether Grasps - Open Lock +20, Seeker +10, Demonic Might
    Boots Halcyon Boots - Dexterity +8, Insightful Dexterity +2, Exceptional Dexterity +1, Halcyon Mind, Striding 30%
    Belt Girdle of Giant's Brawn - Strength +8, Good Luck +2, Exceptional Intelligence +1
    Ring 1 Seal of House Avithoul - Wisdom +7, Sneak Attack Bonus +5/+8, Insightful Sneak Attack Bonus +3/+5, Improved Deception
    Ring 2 Epic Ring of the Stalker - Exceptional Sneak Attack +3, Seeker +6, Manslayer, Ghostly, Greater False Life, Exceptional Constitution +1
    Weapon 1 Needle, Quill-Slinger - +7 Enhancement, 20% Ranged Alacrity, Hemorrhaging, Attack Bonus +4
    Trinket Planar Focus of Prowess - Insightful Constitution +3, +4 Attack and Damage, 15 Physical Resistance

  17. #17
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    Hi,

    I've seen a few mechanic/artificers and they seem to do very well.

    Thanks for posting the details of your build and gearing.
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    What about twists?

    Also, you don't have any heal amp slotted. Do you swap to a heal amp stick when you need to scroll heal?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nni View Post
    What about twists?

    Also, you don't have any heal amp slotted. Do you swap to a heal amp stick when you need to scroll heal?
    If you want healing amp, you can always equip Tira's Splendor, but my scrolls hit me for about 300 and I only have 600 life, so it doesn't really feel necessary. As I said before, I'm nearly ALWAYS the last to die in my group if there's an unavoidable wipe.

    I have Sense Weakness from Fury and Critical Damage from Dreadnought slotted most of the time, just because Shiradi lets me spend a disproportionate amount of time hitting helpless targets.

    Another great way to go would be to slot reflex save twists or Cocoon, since you generally don't use your SP for anything else. It's definitely flavor to taste.

  20. #20
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    I am confused about your Epic Destinies. This looks like a first-life build, so Shiradi Champion cannot be your first ED. Did you start with Legendary Dreadnaught, then opened Shiradi tree?

    BTW, agree that row would be the best race for this build. Not many builds can make good use of both INT and CHA.
    Last edited by brian14; 04-09-2013 at 02:35 PM.
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