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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I even did a few LoB runs where I'd end up with the LoB's aggro inadvertently, and would be able to survive long enough for the tank to get aggro back usually.
    Jumping on the water can help there.

    I went 12/16/14/14/16/8 on my 34pt 12/6 Ranger/2 Arti. I prefer the +25HP to +1 dmg.
    Last edited by emptysands; 03-12-2013 at 01:41 AM.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    If a player is running EE on a character he's asked for build help on and hasn't already done the quest enough times on lower difficulties to learn where the traps are.... Well, ok then.

    As to the rest of it, the majority of people I see playing don't have anywhere near the gear you're talking about. That probably is just a difference in servers and PuGs.

    Same thing for rogues. When I play it seems like every other character has some number of rogue or artificer levels. I've even been on my rogue and joined a quest specifically because they were looking for a rogue and had splash characters running to search & disable. So, again, just a difference in experiences.

    As to the CON. I said it was scary and it is. I ran Ruh Roh with half that and once he hit epic content it became really tough. I run with less than 500 HP on my pure monk but he has relatively decent AC, DR, dodge, ethereal form, etc. I think that the build has too much INT and not enough CON. Doesn't mean it won't work. But, like people told me about Ruh Roh, just because you make it work doesn't mean someone asking about build advice will be able to make it work. IMO INT can be rolled all the way back to 8 and skills can be limited to just the essential ones giving a less experienced player an important cushion that maybe you don't need.

  3. #23
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    Jumping on the water can help there.

    I went 12/16/14/14/16/8 on my 34pt 12/6 Ranger/2 Arti. I prefer the +25HP to +1 dmg.
    Yeah, it's one of the few places in the game where Water Walk is actually worth spending the Ki on, although you're likely to get tagged with Divine Punishment doing that, which can sometimes be tougher to mitigate than his melee attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    If a player is running EE on a character he's asked for build help on and hasn't already done the quest enough times on lower difficulties to learn where the traps are.... Well, ok then.
    There are randomly placed traps, like Spell Wards.
    As to the rest of it, the majority of people I see playing don't have anywhere near the gear you're talking about. That probably is just a difference in servers and PuGs.
    Which is an argument in which direction?

    In any case, different difficulty levels require different amounts of gear, and +20 (or +15 competence/+5 enhancement) items aren't all that hard to come by anymore these days, nor are the Ventilated Bracers or +3 tomes, which are what I was packing on my build.

    As to the CON. I said it was scary and it is. I ran Ruh Roh with half that and once he hit epic content it became really tough. I run with less than 500 HP on my pure monk but he has relatively decent AC, DR, dodge, ethereal form, etc. I think that the build has too much INT and not enough CON. Doesn't mean it won't work. But, like people told me about Ruh Roh, just because you make it work doesn't mean someone asking about build advice will be able to make it work. IMO INT can be rolled all the way back to 8 and skills can be limited to just the essential ones giving a less experienced player an important cushion that maybe you don't need.
    Was that on an archer or a melee? Playing a melee with low HP is a very different experience than running an archer like that.

    In any case, yes, the skills aren't a necessity, but I laid out what the value was of the /2 artificer splash. It's then a choice for whomever is going to run the character. I also indicated that gear was going to be an important factor. Personally, I feel that a pure archer (never going to swing a melee weapon) really needs to be filling additional roles in order to justify their party slot. Just having solid UMD is probably enough, but I like to add more to that.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  4. #24
    Community Member Zerenety's Avatar
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    Default Thanks everyone!

    I would like to thank you all for helping me with my AA! It means alot!
    Special thanks to you Sephirot! For clean, informative, good-hearted answers.

    Here's the build I ended up with.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Male
    (12 Monk \ 6 Ranger \ 2 Artificer) 
    Hit Points: 288
    Spell Points: 398 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 21
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             12                 15                   15
    Dexterity            16                 19                   19
    Constitution         13                 16                   16
    Intelligence         14                 17                   17
    Wisdom               16                 24                   27
    Charisma              8                 11                   11
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               3                  4                    8
    Bluff                -1                  0                    0
    Concentration         5                 26                   28
    Diplomacy            -1                  0                    0
    Disable Device        6                 24                   24
    Haggle               -1                  0                    0
    Heal                  3                  8                    8
    Hide                  3                  4                    8
    Intimidate           -1                  0                    0
    Jump                  1                  2                    4
    Listen                3                  8                   10
    Move Silently         3                  4                    8
    Open Lock             7                 11                   11
    Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                  3                    3
    Search                6                 26                   28
    Spot                  7                 28                   30
    Swim                  1                  2                    2
    Tumble                n/a                5                    7
    Use Magic Device      3                 23                   26
    
    Level 1 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 15 (Artificer)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Adept of Rock
    Enhancement: Master of Stone
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Artificer Energy of Creation I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III
    Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Ended with max UMD, Concetration and Search.
    21 points into Disable Device.
    20 points into Spot.
    7 points into Open Lock.

    Another TR will bring Str up to 14!

  5. #25
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    No problem.

    A couple of suggestions, though.

    You may want to do something more like
    1. Arti
    2-3. Ranger (gets you Bow Strength and Rapid Shot for free)
    4-15 Monk (gets you Ninja Spy and 10K Stars earlier, and Fast Movement, and Evasion, etc...)
    16-19 Ranger
    20 Artificer (or take this a little earlier if you intend to swap to a repeating crossbow occasionally)

    With that set-up, I'd also take Manyshot as one of my normal feats as soon as it becomes available (level 9) and then use a feat swap (your free one, perhaps) before picking up Ranger 6 to take whatever feat you actually wanted there.

    This leveling process does a few things that will be helpful:

    1. Having ranger levels at the tail end means you'll be able to smooth out some skills a little better with the extra skill points and additional class skills.
    2. More monk levels earlier mean you'll have Evasion (a pretty big deal) and Fast Movement for most of your character's life. It also means you'll get to Ninja Spy earlier, which means more levels where you're adding 1d6 (and later 3d6) sneak attack damage to your attacks, and more levels that you'll be able to use Shadow Fade in tough spots.
    3. Even without a Ki Gen mechanism, it's possible to be using 10K Stars a little more often than Manyshot if you are in the habit of sneaking a bit to regenerate Ki, and there are some ways to get your starting Ki up enough to have a few uses ready to go at the start of a quest/after shrining. Go 1-12 monk as a straight shot also means that you will be able to pick up Water III at level 15 for passive Ki Gen for your last 5 levels.
    4. Grabbing Manyshot as a feat at level 9 or 12 also means that you'll have both 10K Stars and Manyshot for more of your character's life, rather than having to wait a rather long time before you get either.

    Also, you probably don't need 7 ranks in Open Lock. At the very least, I'd drop 1 point for a point in Tumble, just because it's useful for getting through shallow water faster, and I believe Slow Fall works in conjunction with Tumble for reducing falling damage.
    Last edited by sephiroth1084; 03-13-2013 at 03:42 PM.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  6. #26
    SithDDO Symerith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I'm not sure what "defensive options" you expect an archer with NO melee feats to have other than kiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    You probably won't be building for AC or PRR on an archer.

    So, decent HP, a shield for blocking, the sap feat, blur and/or displacement from scroll or item, guard procs from certain items, and the diplomacy skill are some of the other useful defensive options.

    Having said that, I think not building for melee is a bad idea. And you can minimise your aggro problems by not being that archer who fires on the mobs first every encounter.

    Thanks.
    Well, if you are talking about the 1-20 leveling process, then yeah.. a little of AC, blur/displacement scrolls/clickies, evasion and good saves and that's about it.
    But at cap, a high dps archer can have a lot of defenses, and make a great "tank". By that I mean, whenever you grab aggro, just "tank" mobs so your party members can hit the mob, kiting can be terribly annoying. (Ofc, no "tanking" in EEGH for obvious reasons :P)
    On my last life, I had 57 PRR, 80-90 AC (worthless in EE anyway), 18% dodge, full time displacement, 25% incorporeality (hard to keep up though), 1000HP and low 50's saves. (saves being the downside of any AA for EE content, as "we" tend to grab aggro a lot and if we don't have the saves to back it up, we never last very long). Pally splash means low 60's = no fail.

    To OP: for leveling, I advice you to go for TWF and use handwraps. Pick up stunning fist and you will have no issues capping smoothly. Switch out to a bow when MS is off timer.
    At cap, respec for "bow" only as it's a viable playstyle at this point of the game, either with Shiradi Destiny (CC oriented/sustainable DPS), or Fury of the Wild (DPS destiny).

    Sithali-1 ~ 31/31 Lives ~ Completionist
    OMNIPRESENCE
    The Sith Project ~ Youtube channel ~ Sithali, King of Burst DPS ~ Pyrene, the Endgame Paladin ~ Facebook!

  7. #27
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    It probably holds little appeal for the OP, but I and at least one other player are rolling up 12 wiz (evo archmage) / 6 monk / 2 ranger AAs.

    There are a few obvious variations. I think 11 wiz / 7 monk / 2 ranger would be interesting, or even 13 wiz / 6 monk / 1 ranger if you can make the feats work, which would be super nice to pickup 7th level spells like prismatic spray.

    I appreciate there's a more obvious int synergy with artificers, but I found the one I tried (13 wiz / 6 arti / 1 fighter) unenjoyable.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=410116 is the thread with some thoughts. You'll have to... skip past the Druid build at the top of the first post. Combo build posting totally disparate concepts is evidently a poor idea.

    EDIT:

    36 pt H-Elf
    STR 14
    DEX 16
    CON 14
    INT 12
    WIS 16 + Level-ups
    CHA 8


    Ranger 1 Point Blank Shot, Bow Strength, Dil: Rogue
    Monk 1 Zen Archery
    Ranger 2 Completionist, TWF, Rapid Shot
    Monk 2 Toughness
    Monk 3
    Monk 4 WF: Ranged
    Monk 5
    Monk 6 Dodge <-- Ninja Spy; Stunning Fist a very reasonable alternative outside of EE where melee is not a good idea since the build is le squish.
    Wizard 1 Manyshot, Mental Toughness
    Wizard 2
    Wizard 3
    Wizard 4 IC: Ranged
    Wizard 5 Maximize
    Wizard 6
    Wizard 7 Precise Shot
    Wizard 8
    Wizard 9
    Wizard 10 Improved Precise Shot, SF: Evocation
    Wizard 11
    Wizard 12
    Epic 1 GSF: Evocation <-- Archmage III
    Epic 4 Empower

    is the gist of my variant.
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    All of my builds are grossly out of date. Just roll a human or drow mechanic / assassin rogue thing.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

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