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  1. #61
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    /unsigned

    The game doesn't need even more special rules for unusual in-game situations.

  2. #62
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    /not signed

    more reason to chug pots, store shrine, store pots etc?
    No ty
    ALL HAIL TO ITS SQUISHY-MAJESTY SIR KNORR, LORD OF OOZES AND MASTER OF SLIME
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386688

  3. #63
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default ummmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    THIS

    but well, we know that ee never meant really ee, always emant Easy for Everyone soooo guess they will ignore this suggestion, like all the rest
    Easy for everyone huh?

    Whatever dude. Sounds like a veiled "I am so uber and everything is so easy for me" statement.

    FACT: EPIC ELITE is NOT EASY for EVERYONE.

    Why do you let tripe like this spill from your brain?
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature".

  4. #64
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    Easy for everyone huh?

    Whatever dude. Sounds like a veiled "I am so uber and everything is so easy for me" statement.

    FACT: EPIC ELITE is NOT EASY for EVERYONE.

    Why do you let tripe like this spill from your brain?
    You're quouting few months post beign sarcastic about few month thread that whined everything is too easy...

  5. #65
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    I have been in 2 EE Pop's where we had a lag party wipe in the end fight. This mechanic would eliminate the ability to finish this quest due to something outside the control of the players.

    If your going to have a no-re-enter flag, then we need a no-pot-drinking flag too. Was doing an EE Cry and the wizard in the group was obviously running quicken 24x7 and casting spells constantly and by the time we got to the first shrine he had refilled his mana bar twice with pots.

    So if recalling and using a shrine is a problem, shouldn't this be also?

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  6. #66
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    Easy for everyone huh?

    Whatever dude. Sounds like a veiled "I am so uber and everything is so easy for me" statement.

    FACT: EPIC ELITE is NOT EASY for EVERYONE.

    Why do you let tripe like this spill from your brain?
    What I think he meant is that new content is released on Lammania, where part of the subculture there is to find the most optimal flavour of the month builds by which they can trivialize content that they know Turbine will knowingly release with all bugs intact, which are then exploited by those same players on live, with full insider knowledge of all the easybuttons and cheesy shortcuts.

    Only much later when knowledge of the exploits becomes more widely known, will Turbine nerf it back via a hotfix, having already reaped as much profit as they can from character respeccing tools sold in the DDO store, which are heavily used by those same players as they scramble to get in early and grab all the goodies before it's too late. I have seen it time and time again after each major update, I have seen it discussed between players both in-game and on other forums.

    It's just more convenient for Turbine to pass something off as a bug that will be fixed at some point in the future, than using intentional unbugged game mechanics, which would have to be addressed more urgently, as a matter of game design. This way Turbine maximizes profits, the exploiters get their shinies and the rest of the population is left perpetually wondering why the game is supposedly so buggy.

  7. #67
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    IMO, all raids should be this way.

    Whether the EE quests should or not isn't something I can debate on really. I don't use the mechanic even if it's there, I feel it's cheating the system. If I cheat the system, I defeat the whole "can I beat this?" challenge, which just cheats me out of fun. which is why I'm playing in the first place!

    But rather than force everyone else to do things my way, I'll /sign to just leave it alone as is. Those that want to still can.

    Obviously this is a mechanic that is expected by Turbine or they would never have come up with a re-entry penalty.

    tl;dr

    Raids ? Yes.
    Quests ? No.
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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  8. #68
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    What I think he meant is that new content is released on Lammania, where part of the subculture there is to find the most optimal flavour of the month builds by which they can trivialize content that they know Turbine will knowingly release with all bugs intact, which are then exploited by those same players on live, with full insider knowledge of all the easybuttons and cheesy shortcuts.

    Only much later when knowledge of the exploits becomes more widely known, will Turbine nerf it back via a hotfix, having already reaped as much profit as they can from character respeccing tools sold in the DDO store, which are heavily used by those same players as they scramble to get in early and grab all the goodies before it's too late. I have seen it time and time again after each major update, I have seen it discussed between players both in-game and on other forums.

    It's just more convenient for Turbine to pass something off as a bug that will be fixed at some point in the future, than using intentional unbugged game mechanics, which would have to be addressed more urgently, as a matter of game design. This way Turbine maximizes profits, the exploiters get their shinies and the rest of the population is left perpetually wondering why the game is supposedly so buggy.
    i think you're right in everything but 2 points:

    - don't play lammania, in fact i wouldn't spend my time in something that isn't live server
    - only 1 char, permanently tr'ing(gonna get 3pl each, and the start another toon), 4 mules

    not interested in endgame, 1st reason is how hard turbine nerfs the quests because every-ddo-player must be able to solo it, if not look that gh changes: no crucible for flagging, no splitting twice in tor; in fact im the 1st person who says that EE should be achievable by only a 1-5% of population, then EE would mean something, like before epic meant something, now EE means easy for everyone, if don't think so is your/their trouble, is a reality; so im not gonna stay at endgame because there's no endgame, is harder to solo an heroic quest at lvl than an epic elite quest with ED's(my gear ir pretty poor, must say)

    the 2nd and last reason is, if i didn't stay at endgame because the "challenge" (the true is there's no challenge) but decided to stay for endgame gear... next update, fix, release, it will be nerfed til...well, no need to be nerfed, simply let's make better items drop as lootgen (a.k.a old epics with scrolls, etc etc and FR lootgen, or FR stuff compared with GH stuff)

    turbine has absolutely 0 interest in how many time we grind X quest, or get Y gear, what they want is ppl buying pots and timers, the more pots you buy is supposed to be when you tr like mad (i used to spend 1 month, current life took 2 weeks o_Ouu, no, dont buy pots, guess im getting better player...not really, quests are easier? maybe) so their only objective is nerf xp in quests, extend lvls but never never, revamp old packs(i already bought em, btw, premium player, bought the MotU and rest of the stuff came with favor, currently missing 2 last packs and arti) like some games where to beat certain raid, you MUST beat the older one, and this way every player MUST know every raid ingame, the truth is i did 3 citw (1 antipode & 1 balizarde), 1 MA & LOB (1 of those strange lives where i was flagged and the lfm popped up!have 1 necklace, guess someday ill figure what for), 2-3 abbotts(same as MA & LOB), 15-20 shrouds(have 3 gs, none cleansed, getting closer to 4th, like the rest will buy the missing ings in the AH), 15-20 chronoscopes(have 2 or 3 abishai sets, at beginning was thinking in get 1 epic set,when saw the drops decided that not), 15-20 vons(8FRDS!!yay!!XD), 14 tempest spine(1/life XD)

    0 FoT
    0 titan

    in 14 lives(current is the 14th)

    what i've seen in ddo community is how heavily gear dependant is, 1 of the best proof is the "hp means everything" clan, guess that ppl get their uber gear over lvl, if not can't understand that hp-gear-dependence

    and no, haven't been so lucky of having a flavor of the month, i got 1 ED/life (easier from my PoV, and well, if i don't grind gear, ain't gonna grind ED! in fact last life as the first time i reached 25!! guess should have posted it in achievements forum), my lives use to be pure, is how i like the toons, some dirty ideas come to my mind sometimes, non-forum related, don't worry, i never would take 2 pally or monk lvls as sorc(in fact 1st life was fire/ice, 2nd was earth, 3rd was air, 3 were pure, comparing which one is cooler), and haven't done arti lives yet

    and like i said before, because EE means easy for everyone, the reentry is allowed, if you don't find it's easy, should play wow then, when you are forced to do 344545234 raids to get gear to step in a raid with a minimal survival chance (because mobs/boss deal 4353454523423422 w/o save) then you'll learn what does difficulty mean

    i really appreciate ddo and the d&d base, but has been so awfully implemented, promoted, developed and supervised, that is really impossible to call it challenge, want 1 example? 1st life pally soloing EE, when everyone says that pally's are gimp, there's no gimp class in ddo and no epic elite quest, it's only the difference of skill between players and the interest of turbine to make achievable for everyone the "hey i beated that quest/boss" noble idea, useless in mmorpg
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  9. #69
    Community Member Niv-mizzet's Avatar
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    I used to enjoy running "the highest content." When it was ToD, it felt like a hard raid where we used a bunch of different class abilities and skills in tandem to come through, and it was still always rough. And yet, I always had fun in ToD.

    Nowadays, I join...say...an EE tor: party hides like cowards on top of rocks where they just can't be hit by most things for some odd reason. Or an EE POP where party members jump in and out of the quest using the shrine outside for effectively infinite resources.

    I don't know about any of you guys, but if I was forced to use a strategy like that, I wouldn't be convinced that I "won" at all. And this is why I don't like current endgame. Everyone seems to want to use these "almost-exploits" to win.

    Anything that makes the highest difficulty of the game more about playing DDO well rather than playing the "let's figure out what the quest designers overlooked" game is awesome IMO.

  10. #70
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    You can enforce your own rules. When you form a group set out the rules. If they leave the quest, boot them. Pretty simple.

    If you are in someone else's group, its their rules. Pretty simple.
    This seems like the best solution.

    Additionally, I think that the ability to reenter quests is the truest to pen and paper. I know lots of people will object to the notion that PnP comparisons are relevant to DDO, but in this case I think it's a good idea.

    In other words, I do think it's a reasonable trade-off to assume that people can visit an area of conflict, leave and reallocate resources etc. and come back to resolve the conflict, albeit with fewer rewards (experience) than they would receive if they could resolve the conflict in one go. It doesn't seem very realistic or reasonable to seal people inside instances.
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  11. #71
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niv-mizzet View Post
    I used to enjoy running "the highest content." When it was ToD, it felt like a hard raid where we used a bunch of different class abilities and skills in tandem to come through, and it was still always rough. And yet, I always had fun in ToD.

    Nowadays, I join...say...an EE tor: party hides like cowards on top of rocks where they just can't be hit by most things for some odd reason. Or an EE POP where party members jump in and out of the quest using the shrine outside for effectively infinite resources.

    I don't know about any of you guys, but if I was forced to use a strategy like that, I wouldn't be convinced that I "won" at all. And this is why I don't like current endgame. Everyone seems to want to use these "almost-exploits" to win.

    Anything that makes the highest difficulty of the game more about playing DDO well rather than playing the "let's figure out what the quest designers overlooked" game is awesome IMO.
    that's not strategy. that's people taking advantage of situations easily. I don't agree with it myself. I bring what I think I need to complete a quest, solo or party, and if I run out of resources i still keep going and hope to beat the quest. if i complete or not, i think about how to do better next time and be more prepared. experience through trial and error makes a skilled player, not finding loopholes to beat an adventure. it gets to the point that it becomes expected in groups and you are made to feel uncomfortable. people, of course, will try to justify this type of "play style".

    you are not forced to do anything if you feel it to be wrong. ive dropped from groups before when exploits or these almost exploits were being used. i don't believe in cheating the game to get ahead and i don't want to cheat my gaming experience. i don't get everything right, but i pretty much know the difference between right and wrong in this game. if im not prepared properly or cant handle the tough content, i wont do it until i know my character is able to do it.
    Last edited by Qhualor; 04-04-2013 at 09:42 PM.

  12. #72
    Community Member brickwall's Avatar
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    They could remove the ability to leave quests unless dead or completed that should not effect anything.
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  13. #73
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niv-mizzet View Post
    I used to enjoy running "the highest content." When it was ToD, it felt like a hard raid where we used a bunch of different class abilities and skills in tandem to come through, and it was still always rough. And yet, I always had fun in ToD.

    Nowadays, I join...say...an EE tor: party hides like cowards on top of rocks where they just can't be hit by most things for some odd reason. Or an EE POP where party members jump in and out of the quest using the shrine outside for effectively infinite resources.

    I don't know about any of you guys, but if I was forced to use a strategy like that, I wouldn't be convinced that I "won" at all. And this is why I don't like current endgame. Everyone seems to want to use these "almost-exploits" to win.

    Anything that makes the highest difficulty of the game more about playing DDO well rather than playing the "let's figure out what the quest designers overlooked" game is awesome IMO.
    ding! i've heard that once upon a time, ddo was a hard game, what a pity i couldn't enjoy it

    the best way to make quests keep being challenge is: nerf ed, remove reentry possibility from elite diffs(heroic and epic), and please don't balance elite diff to be soloed -_- then comes a full party and zas, the scaling wipes em out, and come crying to the forum; elite quests must be balanced for 6 members, 0 scaling, if 1 player is as strong as 6 players then he/she can solo it, if can't...well, can solo hard (tht one has scaling, or well it's balanced for 1 player rofl)

    forgot about that, have done 2 ToD, 1 Vod & 1 HoX (have 1 pally sword, better with more pally lvls and 1 shield, not best at heroic lvls iirc, but pretty nice), all the loot i have is because i looted it or because rest of players weren't interested in it... why?!?! (hope gonna give em some use at melee lives XD)

    higher lootgen is so OP and so easy to take that players can avoid every named ingame, ml 18? why does it exist? for 2 lvls? most ppl(not me xD) use to bank lvls, so prolly ml18 means= xp from lvl 19 to 20, that's vale and well... a nude halfling can do vale
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  14. #74

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    They could remove the ability to leave quests unless dead or completed that should not effect anything.
    There's some serious griefing potential right there.

    Pick up key quest item, refuse to hand it over to NPC at the end to complete....hold your entire group hostage unable to leave the quest without suiciding.

    Also, if you're going into a quest to farm a specific rare chest, you'd have to suicide out after every run.
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  15. #75
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    Thumbs down

    -1, It's a selfish post from an elitist person that wants to cut down things for others while he can simply post his own rules on his lfm.

  16. #76
    Community Member die's Avatar
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  17. #77
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    I would be okay with being locked out/in of an Epic Elite quest because it goes with the challenge, but for all other difficulties you ought to be able to re enter the quest. I can agree with some exceptions to this, like a few raids and such (FOT and VON just for example), that should be locked because either the plot hints that the quest should be locked, or the quest should be locked to prevent excessive exiting, using a shrine, and coming back in. But just plain locking all epic quests is a little harsh, and it would be better to leave them open to re-entry. There have definitely been a few cases where re-entering would have saved the quest and made the game that much funner, but instead people were locked out and the quest was failed and everyone was upset. /Signed for Epic Elites and a few other quests and raids, but not for all epics. The re-entry penalty does a fine job of discouraging re-entries and the majority of quests need not be locked.

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