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  1. #41
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    What's the difference between rest or change toon? No difference if they lock epic like before
    Leamos --> Completionist + Epic Completionist

    Arena PVP matchs are the only real end-game... still waiting that community will understand and let turbine to implement it.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by cave_diver View Post
    Since obliviously i cant enforce my own rules...some due to shrines being right outside the quest in the explorer zone....I should have the option when I enter a quest to tick a box disallowing re-entries
    That seems like a better solution that could be extended to all diff of quests. A few boxes - like no re-entry, shrines used once, shrines don't work etc. And it should be visible and clear to anyone that would like to join what rules are in force.

  3. #43
    Community Member Truga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Agreed on citw, if there was a raid lockout on citw you would never have gotten a healer toon and would have had to pay healers or run the raid byoh.
    Indeed, this is the case with CITW. But swapping a character isn't the same as re-entering. And there's only so much EE capable characters people can have.

  4. #44

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    Just goes to show how much attention I've been paying then
    I always consider it a wise course to not try to pontificate to other people about things when you don't know anything about that thing.

    Because I'm as entitle to my opinion as the next person.
    Forcing other people to play in your approved method is not merely having an opinion.

    Of course this doesn't change my point at all, re-entry to Epics still hasn't been possible throughout most of their history.
    It was possible for the first ~6 months or so that epics existed. It's also rather important to note that Gianthold EEs are about 5 times more difficult than old epics. An EE Hobgoblin shaman is a vastly more formidable opponent than pre-MotU eRaiyum was.

    Attacking my statement in the way you have in this post, attempting to dismiss it in such a manner, is disingenuous.
    Meaning that you don't like having your gaping knowledge hole pointed out for all to see. Get over it.

    Also, I don't like your tone.
    You're not supposed to. I don't like ignorance. Especially when ignorance tries to tell other people what to do.
    I am the 'Who' In the call "Who's there!?"
    I am the wind blowing through your hair.
    I am the shadow on the moon at night, filling your dreams to the brim with fright.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    It's also rather important to note that Gianthold EEs are about 5 times more difficult than old epics. An EE Hobgoblin shaman is a vastly more formidable opponent than pre-MotU eRaiyum was.
    With epic destinies all current EE content is easier than pre-U14 epics were.

    If you don't use destinies then sure I can agree that EE's are way more difficult than old epics were, but I'm not really sure as to why you wouldn't use destinies.

    PS. Raiyum wasn't the dangerous part of the fight in the first place. What was dangerous were the wraiths he had with him.
    Last edited by Viisari; 03-11-2013 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #46
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    People leave EE's for shrines?

    What is this? 2000-whatever when the first epics came out
    and we slowly firewalled everything from a safe perch?

    Outdated "tactics" are outdated.

    EE gianthold is not hard enough to require this sort of thing,
    at least not on Sarlona aka the "Short Bus".

  7. #47
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    So if we were to ask Turbine to resolve the issue of "Recalling to Shrine" for Quests, wouldn't the best answer be to have all recalls prior to a completion be just outside of the explorer area where the quest resides? Or possibly to the players "Bind point" similar to "/death". Upon Quest completion recalling to just outside the quest would then be activated.

    This keeps the ability to recall and return to the quest if the party is ok with this method, but also gives a party leader enough time to handle this social issue themselves based on their set preferences.

    Personally I see this method as pure "Cheese" when used to "Top Off" after buffing etc. But I think we can all agree that with some of the lag issues we have been experiencing, we should leave some wiggle room to allow groups to continue and not lose the progress because of something not under their control.

    ---------
    As others have pointed out, even when Turbine finally fixed the "Re-invite" to quest ability to enter Epics, changing characters still allowed people to get in on a fresh horse after running the first one into the ground. It has only been the last 7 Months were XP even mattered at the Epic Level. What we are getting to is a place where groups or group members no longer need XP and as always they are looking for the path of least resistance.

    ----------
    If we wanted to get to no re-entry possibly the best course would be to implement the Failure mechanic that was found in the Cove which if someone leaves the instance you fail would be a better mechanic then re-entry prevention. It would put the blame of failure on the person that recalled thus fixing this method. The problem with this type of change is it opens up a new form of "Greifing".

  8. #48
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Regarding CiTW . . . I think being able to loot on whatever toon you wanted was GOOD for that raid. Made it easier to form groups.

    Regarding EEs most aren't concerened about the XP as they're being run on capped toons/destinies and just hunting for loot.
    If a raid requires people to recall out for mana, its a bad mechanic. As far as bringing in an alt for loot, i never liked that either. I didnt do it for Chrono and i wouldnt do it for CITW because if my characters arent capable of handling the raid, than i dont bring them in even just to pull loot.

    If the problem with capped epic players are not concerned about xp and they like to re-enter, than communication needs to happen before starting the quest for players that are not capped. The fix is the group, not asking for a lock out for all.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    If a raid requires people to recall out for mana, its a bad mechanic. As far as bringing in an alt for loot, i never liked that either. I didnt do it for Chrono and i wouldnt do it for CITW because if my characters arent capable of handling the raid, than i dont bring them in even just to pull loot.

    If the problem with capped epic players are not concerned about xp and they like to re-enter, than communication needs to happen before starting the quest for players that are not capped. The fix is the group, not asking for a lock out for all.

    I want to say Junk was making apoint about the lack of loot-based
    reasons to bring a healer.

    (no items, BtC commedations)


    In Chrono everything is BtA so it doesn't matter who you bring.

  10. #50
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    You don't need a healer or caster to complete an EE. EE is supposed to be for the best of the best. But DDO is like any other product. Make something easy to appeal to the masses and this product is no different. It's politics not AD&D.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    If a raid requires people to recall out for mana, its a bad mechanic. As far as bringing in an alt for loot, i never liked that either. I didnt do it for Chrono and i wouldnt do it for CITW because if my characters arent capable of handling the raid, than i dont bring them in even just to pull loot.
    That's not why you do it.

    If my fighter needs loot . . . but the group needs a cleric . . . and my cleric doesn't need loot . . . I can run the raid on my cleric and loot on the toon that needs to. The raid gets done, I get to loot on a toon that needs it. My cleric needs NOTHING from CiTW, there is no reason for him to EVER run the raid.

    Win/win for all parties involved.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  12. #52
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    agree.
    I would like to see that
    Cannith Server. Member of Alleanza degli uomini liberi.

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  13. #53
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    I always consider it a wise course to not try to pontificate to other people about things when you don't know anything about that thing.



    Forcing other people to play in your approved method is not merely having an opinion.



    It was possible for the first ~6 months or so that epics existed. It's also rather important to note that Gianthold EEs are about 5 times more difficult than old epics. An EE Hobgoblin shaman is a vastly more formidable opponent than pre-MotU eRaiyum was.



    Meaning that you don't like having your gaping knowledge hole pointed out for all to see. Get over it.



    You're not supposed to. I don't like ignorance. Especially when ignorance tries to tell other people what to do.
    lol

  14. #54
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    That's not why you do it.

    If my fighter needs loot . . . but the group needs a cleric . . . and my cleric doesn't need loot . . . I can run the raid on my cleric and loot on the toon that needs to. The raid gets done, I get to loot on a toon that needs it. My cleric needs NOTHING from CiTW, there is no reason for him to EVER run the raid.

    Win/win for all parties involved.
    I understand the reasoning behind why players do it, but I think its the problem of the devs that don't make loot attractive for all classes. originally, players were recalling from CITW for mana when the raid came out and than re-entering. that is poor game mechanics if it requires players to do that. I hear groups are not doing that as much anymore, but still, poor mechanic and I don't agree with it. my opinion.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    that is poor game mechanics if it requires players to do that
    That raid has some of the worst mechanics in the whole game.

    Like... spell point drain on random targets, EE spellwards spawning on top of the party and a bloody NPC you've to guide.

    The SP drain is especially idiotic and should be removed completely.

  16. #56
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I understand the reasoning behind why players do it, but I think its the problem of the devs that don't make loot attractive for all classes. originally, players were recalling from CITW for mana when the raid came out and than re-entering. that is poor game mechanics if it requires players to do that. I hear groups are not doing that as much anymore, but still, poor mechanic and I don't agree with it. my opinion.
    There are a couple items that are useful for divines. Kinda-sorta. But it's like an artificer picking through the Eveningstar Commendation sets -- nothing made for the class and so the best you can hope for is not awful for your build.

  17. #57
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    I don't compare the epic elite quests with old epics. They are similar but if you are playing them, you are an epic level character. Raids are a different matter. While EE quests are mostly harder than heroic elites for level, they are in the ball park. Some EE is not really that horrible. Some require exquisite A-game to be sure.

    I think the mindset has not moved along with the times. I could be wrong but that's how I feel about it now.

  18. #58
    Community Member moops's Avatar
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    Oh you weren't in when we opened that chest? Well we asked you to not recall...
    Hexxa CLR 25 *TR* * ~Hexanna ~*TR* FVS 25 * Hexecuter CLR 20 *Flexanna RGR/R/M 18/1/1 *TR* * Flexa FTR/R 18/2 TR * Hextravaganz Bard *TR* 18/2 * Hexotic Sorc 13 * Hexquisite Wiz 23 * ~~Quantum Entropy * SARLONA~~ - * and various other scoundrels

  19. #59
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Changes like this are great ... for the people that already have burned through the quest, farmed their loot, got their t-shirt and want to make sure future generations can't do it as easily.

    I like challenges. I'm fine with them. Enjoy them. Changes like this should be coupled with a zeroing out of favor and removal / downgrade of all EE items from the packs in question. No reason that new people with harder challenges should have a harder time getting loot than we do.


    This is just like other changes suggested to make old stuff even harder - after it's been farmed by the first set of folks. As another example, how "fair" is it really to eliminate fast ED farming for future players? I mean, how many toons do you have fully ED capped? May as well make it harder for future folks, right?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  20. #60
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    You realize if they made a change like this... all it would promote is more TP to get the same things done? Right now instead of recalling you can buy a shrine from the DDO store and plop it right in front of you to rest at.

    Just leave well enough alone. Maybe you should request a hardcore server... no rest shrines, no re-entering, no DDO store, and only 1 life. Have fun with that.

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