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  1. #1
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    Default Radiance... the Suffix? (Cannith)

    It seems that there is a Radiance prefix, but no suffix.

    At first I thought it was newer than Cannith, but it exists in Green Steel. Anyone know if we might get anything new added to Cannith, ever?

  2. #2

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    There is a multitude of affixes and suffixes which cannot be performed with Cannith Crafting. Most of them were added with MotU, after Cannith Crafting was implemented, but some (Vorpal, Banishing, melee Radiance) have never been available.

    There are some vague words from Turbine that they are planning to update the system, but given their existing track record, it will either never happen, or if it does happen there will be some blatant cash grab involved that will make actually doing it infeasible.

    tl;dr: Don't get your hopes up. They're bound to be dashed.
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  3. #3
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default If they ever make

    the following mods craftable:

    smiting, disruption, banishing, paralyzing, radiance, etc

    Cannith crafting would get a huge boost. I bet Matuse is correct that there would be some kind of astral shard cost or something very prohibitive about them though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    There is a multitude of affixes and suffixes which cannot be performed with Cannith Crafting. Most of them were added with MotU, after Cannith Crafting was implemented, but some (Vorpal, Banishing, melee Radiance) have never been available.

    There are some vague words from Turbine that they are planning to update the system, but given their existing track record, it will either never happen, or if it does happen there will be some blatant cash grab involved that will make actually doing it infeasible.

    tl;dr: Don't get your hopes up. They're bound to be dashed.
    Spot on. The track record is rife with half-baked systems that eventually get ignored, removed, or so fundamentally changed for the worse. Or the never finished enhancement revamp......
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    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    Oh no. If you say there were vague murmurs, I'm going to believe them whole-heartedly. Like that Greek guy says, "you gotta have faith!"

    I can understand not allowing crafting of vorpals and even paralysers. However, I don't think Radiance (suffix) is remotely in the same category. Next to those, a little blindness is nothing, especially when you can Cannith craft stuff like wounding (even though wounding doesn't really work).

  6. #6
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    ok i picture this every time turbine and the interns have a crafting idea..... fade in......that 70s show high circle....fade out
    i find myself and others saying "glad im not paying for this ****" vip from ftp beta till 10.9.2012 fix it...fix it Now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Oh no. If you say there were vague murmurs, I'm going to believe them whole-heartedly. Like that Greek guy says, "you gotta have faith!"

    I can understand not allowing crafting of vorpals and even paralysers. However, I don't think Radiance (suffix) is remotely in the same category. Next to those, a little blindness is nothing, especially when you can Cannith craft stuff like wounding (even though wounding doesn't really work).
    Paralyzing is better than Radiance? Paralyzed mobs arent vulnerable to SA, and Paralyzing comes with a pretty weak DC and a recurring save, even though its on-hit and not on-crit.

    Still, on an 18-20 profile weapon with IC, thats a 30% chance to stick a no-save blindness. 20% on ranged weapons with IC. That's money...50% miss chance, 50% attack speed, 30 seconds, no recurring save.

    Plus, if they were craftable, they could conceivably go on Cannith challenge gear, unless they were +4 or more. I can only imagine an Elemental Khopesh with Paralyzing AND Radiance...

    Not saying Radiance and the others shouldnt be craftable - just that they would be very, very powerful options, especially considering most other available weapon suffixes are lackluster at best...

  8. #8

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    I can understand not allowing crafting of vorpals and even paralysers. However, I don't think Radiance (suffix) is remotely in the same category. Next to those, a little blindness is nothing, especially when you can Cannith craft stuff like wounding (even though wounding doesn't really work).
    Honestly, I can see why Radiance wouldn't be present over those others. The others are either bad mods (Vorpal), or require saves that monsters seldom fail (paralyze).

    Being able to craft Radiance would mean not having to grind out a RadII greensteel to get the effect. The fire damage on a RadII weapon is typically quite poor, and is often ignored. A Holy of Radiance crafted item would be almost every bit as good as a RadII, and require 1/50th the grind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Honestly, I can see why Radiance wouldn't be present over those others. The others are either bad mods (Vorpal), or require saves that monsters seldom fail (paralyze).

    Being able to craft Radiance would mean not having to grind out a RadII greensteel to get the effect. The fire damage on a RadII weapon is typically quite poor, and is often ignored. A Holy of Radiance crafted item would be almost every bit as good as a RadII, and require 1/50th the grind.
    Vorpal is very playable now. The .5 w on base damage was the help it needed.

    A Vorpal Greataxe will do more damage than a Holy Burst Greataxe, on average. (8.8 vs 8.4 average added per hit)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    Vorpal is very playable now. The .5 w on base damage was the help it needed.

    A Vorpal Greataxe will do more damage than a Holy Burst Greataxe, on average. (8.8 vs 8.4 average added per hit)
    How do you figure? You cant know that until you know someones total damage multiplier...but since vorpal adds 1d6 damage to a greataxe, and holy burst adds 2.3d6 with IC, youd need at least a 2.3x multiplier to break even with Holy Blast.

    Also, the vorpal effect can contribute anywhere from 5 to 50 damage per hit vs vulnerable mobs, statistically...you get the most bonus dps on targets right under 1000hp but it falls to 5 immediately at 1000+

  11. #11
    Community Member hermespan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Oh no. If you say there were vague murmurs, I'm going to believe them whole-heartedly. Like that Greek guy says, "you gotta have faith!"

    I can understand not allowing crafting of vorpals and even paralysers. However, I don't think Radiance (suffix) is remotely in the same category. Next to those, a little blindness is nothing, especially when you can Cannith craft stuff like wounding (even though wounding doesn't really work).
    I think it might have something to do with 4d6 light damage on every hit, which hits pretty much everything.

    Do I think it's unbalanced? No. Then again I'm campaigning for smiting/banishing/vorpal etc to be added, at least since they've been nerfed to kingdom come.

    However Turbine seems to believe that anything over 2d6 per hit/ 3d6 on crit is overpowered if you can craft it instead of loot it, which means holy burst and greater bane is as good as it gets, This I will never understand.

    Like why can I craft a +5 silver holy burst scimitar of greater evil outsider bane, but not an adamantine force burst scimi of greater construct bane?

    Makes no sense at all. In turbine's defense this seems more like a simple oversight than force burst getting the designation of "overpowered". I wish they'd fix it either way.

  12. #12
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Paralyzing is better than Radiance? Paralyzed mobs arent vulnerable to SA, and Paralyzing comes with a pretty weak DC and a recurring save, even though its on-hit and not on-crit.

    Still, on an 18-20 profile weapon with IC, thats a 30% chance to stick a no-save blindness. 20% on ranged weapons with IC. That's money...50% miss chance, 50% attack speed, 30 seconds, no recurring save.

    Plus, if they were craftable, they could conceivably go on Cannith challenge gear, unless they were +4 or more. I can only imagine an Elemental Khopesh with Paralyzing AND Radiance...

    Not saying Radiance and the others shouldnt be craftable - just that they would be very, very powerful options, especially considering most other available weapon suffixes are lackluster at best...
    Paralysing has a chance to proc with a hit of 17 or greater (which is better than 18-20) and immobilizes its target.

    Blindness does not immobilise a target, and some go into frenzies when blinded (becoming more dangerous). And an awful lot of mobs still seem to have pretty good aim when casting or attacking. They must practice with blindfolds.

    If you don't have access to a Radiance weapon (or can't use one very well for your character's class), and don't have any blinding spells, grab as stack of Contagion scrolls and use the blindness sickness exclusively for a while and see how they react to blindness.

    Blinding things is fun (Druid Crown of Summer and Sunbeam are really fun for blinding), but they caressed it with a nerf bat, I think.

  13. #13

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    Vorpal is very playable now. The .5 w on base damage was the help it needed.
    My Oathblades LOVE the Vorpal changes, but Oathblades are nice weapons even without it.

    Every time I put a vorpal weapon against an otherwise identical weapon with a different damage prefix (Holy, Coruscating typically) into Barrage, it comes out behind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Paralysing has a chance to proc with a hit of 17 or greater (which is better than 18-20) and immobilizes its target.

    Blindness does not immobilise a target, and some go into frenzies when blinded (becoming more dangerous). And an awful lot of mobs still seem to have pretty good aim when casting or attacking. They must practice with blindfolds.
    Maybe I'm working with outdated info on the Wiki? I was under the impression Paralyzing was a DC17 check on every hit - which means, effectively, it's a 5% chance on every hit.

    Radiance is a no-save check on crit, which means its up to 30% chance per hit.

    Again, maybe I'm working with outdated data, but Blinded (50% slower attacks, 50% miss from concealment, not just a to-hit penalty [though it doesnt affect casters, naturally], vulnerable to SAs, no recurring save) still seems like overall better CC than Paralyzed (totally immobilized, but not vulnerable to increased damage, and with a short recurring save so it only lasts a few seconds). The recurring save is really the difference. Paralyzing quickly becomes just a way to get them to freeze-frame in a green bubble for a second like they were at the end of an 80s kid's show

  15. #15
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Maybe I'm working with outdated info on the Wiki? I was under the impression Paralyzing was a DC17 check on every hit - which means, effectively, it's a 5% chance on every hit.

    Radiance is a no-save check on crit, which means its up to 30% chance per hit.

    Again, maybe I'm working with outdated data, but Blinded (50% slower attacks, 50% miss from concealment, not just a to-hit penalty [though it doesnt affect casters, naturally], vulnerable to SAs, no recurring save) still seems like overall better CC than Paralyzed (totally immobilized, but not vulnerable to increased damage, and with a short recurring save so it only lasts a few seconds). The recurring save is really the difference. Paralyzing quickly becomes just a way to get them to freeze-frame in a green bubble for a second like they were at the end of an 80s kid's show


    You are correct, about paralysing being every blow/DC based.


    However, getting a keen scimitar/rapier of radiance won't be that easy, so 30% probability is unlikely, but I guess the Improved Crits feat should also come into play.

    I should point out that this is a little apples-to-oranges. A simple paralyser can have an ML of 10 (conceivably 8 if it has racial restrictions). I've seen paralysers work well up to and slighty above lvl 20. And after level 20, you'd want an epic paraliser, which has a DC of 25.





    Sure, Radiance does more damage, but it's meant for levels where the mobs can take that much damage and more. I somehow don't imagine it to be all that OP in Epic Elites. A search of both auction houses shows no weapons of radiance with an ML of lower than 21. You can make a GS weapon with radiance, but you'd be counting almost entirely on that proc because it seems the only additional damage types they do is fire (against which only icy things don't seem to have unreasonable DR at higher difficulties/levels) and there isn't much to be done for it to bypass DRs.

    At Epic elite levels, even with decreased speed and damage dealing, they are crazy strong. And... I've been told that some mobs become enraged when blinded, and that would mitigate at least a bit of the lost attack speed, wouldn't it?

    And just like paralysed doesn't mean helpless, I'm sure if there's not already some nerf at work in there for Radiance, it's coming. I'm sure that there are many red named mobs that will simply be immune to blinding (and paralysing).
    Last edited by Phaeton_Seraph; 03-21-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermespan View Post
    I think it might have something to do with 4d6 light damage on every hit, which hits pretty much everything.
    That's what I thought too, but a guildy who plays rogues tells me the 4d6 only procs on crits. The description is very poorly worded.

  17. #17
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    EDIT: Post Deleted. Bad math haha. Vorpal is pretty good though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Oh no. If you say there were vague murmurs, I'm going to believe them whole-heartedly. Like that Greek guy says, "you gotta have faith!"

    I can understand not allowing crafting of vorpals and even paralysers. However, I don't think Radiance (suffix) is remotely in the same category. Next to those, a little blindness is nothing, especially when you can Cannith craft stuff like wounding (even though wounding doesn't really work).
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    How do you figure? You cant know that until you know someones total damage multiplier...but since vorpal adds 1d6 damage to a greataxe, and holy burst adds 2.3d6 with IC, youd need at least a 2.3x multiplier to break even with Holy Blast.

    Also, the vorpal effect can contribute anywhere from 5 to 50 damage per hit vs vulnerable mobs, statistically...you get the most bonus dps on targets right under 1000hp but it falls to 5 immediately at 1000+
    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Every time I put a vorpal weapon against an otherwise identical weapon with a different damage prefix (Holy, Coruscating typically) into Barrage, it comes out behind.
    Odd. How did you come up with those figures?

    In a general scenario (hitting vulnerable mobs with more than 1000 HP) the death effect of Vorpal is doing to add an average of 5 points of damage per swing. Add that to the 3.75 points from the +W effect on a greataxe and you get added damage of 8.75 per swing.
    Edit: Forgot the extra W damage is incresed on Crits. That adds 0.375 damage per swing, or 0.7 per swing with improved Crit.
    So Vorpal does 9.125 per swing, or 9.5 damage if you assume improved critical.

    Holy adds 7 damage per swing against Evil mobs. The burst effect adds 0.7 points per swing. If you make the assumption of the Improved Critical feat it adds 1.4 average per swing.
    That puts it at 8.74 per swing which, as Kmnh stated, is less than the Vorpal.

    I'd be interested in the way that you did the math to prove the opposite. I may have left something out here that you took into account.
    Last edited by Khatzhas; 04-06-2013 at 07:11 AM.

  20. #20
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    Paralyzing, Smiting, Banishing, Disruption are generally the best effects available, at least until you hit the epic gear.
    As demonstrated by the number of people demanding to be able to make them.

    Its not that hard to understand why Turbine would try to avoid the power creep and further invalidation of randomly generated loot by making them available to be crafted.

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