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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatzhas View Post
    I'd be interested in the way that you did the math to prove the opposite. I may have left something out here that you took into account.
    Maybe Barrage hasn't been updated for the new vorpal?

  2. #22
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    I've done a lot more playing with Radiance. Funny thing is, blinding enemies doesn't work very well.

    Oh, it's not hard to blind them. Especially with a repeater. Yet somehow, at higher levels, mobs aren't really affected by being blinded. Archers still hit, Melees still chase and hit, all with surprising accuracy.

    They must all train with blindfolds.

    At least when paralysing procs, mobs remain immobile. With Radiance, they lose a little accuracy.

  3. #23
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    Radiance can be found as a suffix on RLG weapons of lvl 20+ and they are actually fairly common, does it bother me that with the OP twinkage that is GS it is far to common in the hands of lower lvl rogues then it should be? yes but that is another thread about GS needing to be nerfed by having its min lvl brought up to at least 16 if not 18.

    What I can assure you is Radiance as in blind on crit, is very useful and powerful in the hands of a character with a good number of sneak attack dice. Even a pure artee in shadow dancer for evasion will enjoy the perks of a repeater of radiance.

    I currently carry a wounding rapier of radiance for EN trash clearing/challenges and it works quite well. I have an acid of radiance for higher dif mobs and it works admirably as well in alot of content.

    I dont really see a need to make it craftable so much as replace all other blinding weapon effects with radiance in general. as any effect tied to a save currently is just worthless after a certain lvl range due to content being built around the extreme DCs of player abilities.

    For example the epic house c air rapier having greater scirrico rather then radiance is a huge insulting joke to every finesse rogue in the game.

    For epic lvls every rogue should be able to get a good rad rapier, yet currently its either lowbie GS BS or random loot gen as our only real options and neither is really that fair in a world where THFs have the ESOS to revel in, and many easier to aquire decent 2nd place weapons to fill their void until they grind out the one sword to rule them all and in darkness bind them.

    Another compromise id live with is giving shadow dancer some useful ability in place of one of its currently many useless ones that allows for no save blindness on crit with any weapon used, or a blindness effect with a DC based on 20+CL+ int mod. allow it to get high enough to at least be viable in EH content if not most EE content.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    I've done a lot more playing with Radiance. Funny thing is, blinding enemies doesn't work very well.

    Oh, it's not hard to blind them. Especially with a repeater. Yet somehow, at higher levels, mobs aren't really affected by being blinded. Archers still hit, Melees still chase and hit, all with surprising accuracy.

    They must all train with blindfolds.

    At least when paralysing procs, mobs remain immobile. With Radiance, they lose a little accuracy.
    Seriously between this kind of stuff and your recent question in another thread asking about how evasion works I have to wonder what game you have been playing these last few years.

    Radiance is a ROGUES weapon choice, not really any other unless you run with alot of rogues. Rogues are about two things mainly, their ability to avoid alot of magical and trap dmg thanks to evasion, and hurting anything that is fleshy really fast with sneak attack, a blind foe is automatically treated as flat footed and takes sneak attack dmg on every blow.

    For a high lvl assassin with the right feats, PRE and Captsone, that adds up to more outright D6s and greater DPS then any other class in the game potnetiall, when it comes to single targets. Even in 3E+ PNP rogues are actually discussed in articles as the actual non magic based DPS class. Sneak attack is that powerful.

    Fact is if it can be sneak attacked, and the rogue knows what they are doing, then that target has no real chance of survival.

    Seriously man before you try to debate things, actually you know play the frelling game.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    Seriously between this kind of stuff and your recent question in another thread asking about how evasion works I have to wonder what game you have been playing these last few years.

    Radiance is a ROGUES weapon choice, not really any other unless you run with alot of rogues. Rogues are about two things mainly, their ability to avoid alot of magical and trap dmg thanks to evasion, and hurting anything that is fleshy really fast with sneak attack, a blind foe is automatically treated as flat footed and takes sneak attack dmg on every blow.

    For a high lvl assassin with the right feats, PRE and Captsone, that adds up to more outright D6s and greater DPS then any other class in the game potnetiall, when it comes to single targets. Even in 3E+ PNP rogues are actually discussed in articles as the actual non magic based DPS class. Sneak attack is that powerful.

    Fact is if it can be sneak attacked, and the rogue knows what they are doing, then that target has no real chance of survival.

    Seriously man before you try to debate things, actually you know play the frelling game.
    Thank you for your tact and diplomacy.

    Let me explain a couple things you should have known before jumping to the conclusions you have.

    First, my experience with radiance weapons and blinding in general come from running an Artificer and a Druid.

    Using the Artificer a primarily caster oriented I don't spend a lot of time in Shadow Dancer unless we absolutely cannot find a rogue. This involves re-equiping too from medium to light armour. My artificer has dumped most trapping related enhancements and confines itself to repeaters and casting.

    The Druid is caster oriented too and not multiclassed, so no evasion. However, from lower levels I have been using Contagion for the blinding sickness and when I got Sunbeam, it became one of the primary spells to begin an attack with.


    With these experiences I have observed that as you get higher in level, particularly to the Epic levels where Radiance weapons drop, blindness does not seem to affect the mobs as expected.

    When I clearly blind a mob from the longest distances possible with a repeater or sunbeam and that mob can still hit me with a bow or a spell 3 out of 4 times, it's obvious that there is something amiss.

    Now it may very well be that this is simply not currently WAI and has to do with the same issue affect stealth/invisibility in general. This is a thought that has only recently occurred as I was reading another thread about stealth.


    You see, what I do is ask questions when I don't know something or am unsure. Like in the other thread and in the beginning of this thread. That's what the forums are for, not to be demeaning or to treat people like **** or to brag about how much better you think you are at a freaking game.

    Thanks for your constructive input and I promise you I'll treat it with the respect and consideration it deserves.

  6. #26

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    Blindness is mainly to trigger sneak attacks, which is only really useful for rogues. For non-rogue builds, radiance isn't very good.

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    There are more ways of getting extra hit and damage on sneak attacks other than being a rogue.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Thank you for your tact and diplomacy.

    Let me explain a couple things you should have known before jumping to the conclusions you have.

    First, my experience with radiance weapons and blinding in general come from running an Artificer and a Druid.

    Using the Artificer a primarily caster oriented I don't spend a lot of time in Shadow Dancer unless we absolutely cannot find a rogue. This involves re-equiping too from medium to light armour. My artificer has dumped most trapping related enhancements and confines itself to repeaters and casting.

    The Druid is caster oriented too and not multiclassed, so no evasion. However, from lower levels I have been using Contagion for the blinding sickness and when I got Sunbeam, it became one of the primary spells to begin an attack with.


    With these experiences I have observed that as you get higher in level, particularly to the Epic levels where Radiance weapons drop, blindness does not seem to affect the mobs as expected.

    When I clearly blind a mob from the longest distances possible with a repeater or sunbeam and that mob can still hit me with a bow or a spell 3 out of 4 times, it's obvious that there is something amiss.

    Now it may very well be that this is simply not currently WAI and has to do with the same issue affect stealth/invisibility in general. This is a thought that has only recently occurred as I was reading another thread about stealth.


    You see, what I do is ask questions when I don't know something or am unsure. Like in the other thread and in the beginning of this thread. That's what the forums are for, not to be demeaning or to treat people like **** or to brag about how much better you think you are at a freaking game.

    Thanks for your constructive input and I promise you I'll treat it with the respect and consideration it deserves.
    lol its called randomness, a 50% miss chance does not make a miss a certainty. Hell this is a game where its common to roll streaks of 1s or 20s. Likewise displacement and blur are not nearly as effective as their %s might suggest.

    I love blinding foes at heroic lvls, mostly undead. Yes you can blind undead easily. Its called glitter dust. as per PnP it effects even undead with no eyes. ITS MAGIC!

    And it provides great help for an entire party in places like deleras tomb when u cast it and help keep all those squishy fighters and barbs who join thinking they are all Blade the vampire hunter alive.

    keep in mind any miss chance is always better then none, and giving them one, added with effects on your self like blur or displacement and even a modest miss chance from armor all add to the layers that keep you safe.

    Now it is possible to blind things that are not fully dependant on sight. Trolls and the like for example have the ability to track you very accuratly by scent. Alot of underground species have tremor sense. Elves can always smell and hear anything non elvish. ETC...

    One would literally have to test being hit by a blind mob at least 100 times in a row with nothing else happening, logging each hit and miss, and then do that experiment 100 more times to give us the data devs already have on this almost certainly.

    Nor am I alone here in saying in general radiance and blinding is mostly just about getting easy sneak attack dmg in. I have friends who play monks and barbs who hate how easy it is for a rogue to get his SA on with radiance weapons. They are just lucky I hate the GS grind and dont bother with one pre epic lvls. Had I carried a grandfathered GS rad rap with a lvl 8 min it would make them all give up on any non rogue warrior dps in general.

  9. #29

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    I'd be interested in the way that you did the math to prove the opposite. I may have left something out here that you took into account.
    It's not just the weapon itself, I factor in the bonuses carried by the actual character for +damage, seeker, etc.

    The difference is often very slight (sometimes less than a single point of damage per swing), but still there.

    Maybe Barrage hasn't been updated for the new vorpal?
    Doesn't need to be. There are no individually selectable weapon bonuses. I just add .5W, and a 100 damage on vorpal hit effect.
    Last edited by Matuse; 04-07-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    It's not just the weapon itself, I factor in the bonuses carried by the actual character for +damage, seeker, etc.

    The difference is often very slight (sometimes less than a single point of damage per swing), but still there.
    Could you go into more detail please? Those factors should be the same whether its a Holy Burst or a Vorpal weapon.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Maybe I'm working with outdated info on the Wiki? I was under the impression Paralyzing was a DC17 check on every hit - which means, effectively, it's a 5% chance on every hit.

    Radiance is a no-save check on crit, which means its up to 30% chance per hit.

    Again, maybe I'm working with outdated data, but Blinded (50% slower attacks, 50% miss from concealment, not just a to-hit penalty [though it doesnt affect casters, naturally], vulnerable to SAs, no recurring save) still seems like overall better CC than Paralyzed (totally immobilized, but not vulnerable to increased damage, and with a short recurring save so it only lasts a few seconds). The recurring save is really the difference. Paralyzing quickly becomes just a way to get them to freeze-frame in a green bubble for a second like they were at the end of an 80s kid's show
    I can assure you that blindness does NOT slow mobs by 50%.

    Blind mobs regularly move *faster* than seeing mobs. In addition, they jink all over (ie: they dart back and forth in semi-random directions). This does not prevent them from swinging at you. It only makes it very hard for you to hit them.

    All are fully capable of hitting you while blind (including ranged mobs, for which it should be effectively impossible). I highly doubt I'm being missed 50% of the time, unless half the jinking spasms they go through are actually swings.

    Even with them not holding still, blindness is pretty useful for anyone with sneak attack damage. I fully expect the Devs to nerf Radiance to hell and back soon. Earlier this week, I ground out all the shards and mats (12 LDS + 4 supreme shards + all the rest) to make two green steel Khopeshes of Radiance 2. This means they can't possibly be useful for much longer

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    For epic lvls every rogue should be able to get a good rad rapier, yet currently its either lowbie GS BS or random loot gen as our only real options and neither is really that fair in a world where THFs have the ESOS to revel in, and many easier to aquire decent 2nd place weapons to fill their void until they grind out the one sword to rule them all and in darkness bind them.
    Both Star of Day and Celestia are awesome epic weapons with Radiance. Unlike rapiers, they're proper light weapons.

    The only real complaint about them is that the celestial blades have some bug with DR breakers (applying a DR breaking effect to the blades like arti spells or pally capstone or ED DR effects) that breaks the inherent Good effect on the blade.

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