Page 6 of 15 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 291
  1. #101
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    6,872

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post

    So, the question I ask of you is.... how rediculous does it get before YOU draw the line?
    It is not pay to win. At best you can pay to gear up on non bta and btc items. That is not winning unless you think unbound and btcoe items = win. Which folks are ALREADY doing via TP trades, and they could ALREADY do this via pay pal since forever. same result, only now Turbine made it safer.


    As for me, the line is, and always has been, that as long as the store does not sell gear that can only be acquired through cash that is superior to any gear you can acquire in game, then I do not care what it sells. The monetization of the game does not bother me since I do not confuse this game with an actual PnP game.


    You seem quite passionate about the direction Turbine and other games are headed. Maybe when the user tools are at the point that anyone can create boutique games as easily as they did MUDs twenty years ago, you can create something that follows the philosophy you espouse. Until then, I do not see the point of calling every new thing pay to cheat or pay to win. It will not stop the tide from coming in. These forums will not significantly influence the direction the game overlords have decided to take.

  2. #102
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Note that alot of the pure hyperbole posted in the slippery slope thread of 2010, is now actually happening today.
    Citation needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  3. #103
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Neither of you have done a good job of reviewing my recent posting history.
    The ONLY thing you post about is p2w... for months now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  4. #104
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    p2w sacrifices long term focus on the games quality to drive financial success, for short term profit bolstering through convenience mechanisms. There is a saturation point, and when that happens the attrition grows exponentially. The saturation point is when p2w has made the game so convenient that increasing the degree of it even further doesnt cause people to buy into it anymore at the top tier.
    Three years is not short-term in MMO terms... Even if you're right and Turbine destroys DDO via P2W, it will probably take another 3 years... and it will absolutely be the right decision, business wise.

    I'm not exactly sure how you think Turbine is supposed to make money. If you were in charge they would have closed down this year, after giving everything away for free for 3 years straight.

    We are already at the point where people can fully gear a toon without ever having played the game. This new ASAH makes that even easier.

    You can use reductio ad absurdum type analysis to determine what the point of rediculousness is. If you bought a +4 tome for a stat last time around will you buy a +5 tome for the same stat when those hit the market? If you used to use 30% pots for xp grinding, did you move to 50% pots when those came out? Keep increasing the values of each, and at some point, everyone will draw a line where the entire equation becomes completely rediculous.

    So, how rediculous does it get before YOU draw the line? Right now we are at:

    First life toon, start at vet2 - level 7, run deleras part 2 a couple times then pt3+4 to hit 8 and get a VOM. Now buy a tier 2 Xp tome, a 50% xp pot, and use those, then use your Xp stone. Youre now level 19 with a 50% potion ticking. With the ASAH you can just buy all the gear you need with real money as well, very conveniently (far more conveniently than pedaling TP codes to get plat or gear).

    This kind of stuff was complete hyperbole in 2010 when the "slippery slope" thread was posted and people were completely denying the slippery slope even existed in regards to how bad p2w could get. And we havent even come remotely close to seeing how bad it can get at this point, but we are well on our way.

    So, the question I ask of you is.... how rediculous does it get before YOU draw the line?
    And none of that affects me.... Turbine makes a ton of money and keeps producing new content for me to play... I scroll-down through pages and pages of LFMs tonight on Thelanis... People are still playing... Turbine is making money... New content is being produced...

    What alternative would you propose?

    DDO seems to be wildly successful to me... I'm having a blast playing this game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  5. #105
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Citation needed.
    I gave you the name of the thread, and you werent willing to type the name into the search bar?

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=267134
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #106
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    It is not pay to win. At best you can pay to gear up on non bta and btc items. That is not winning unless you think unbound and btcoe items = win. Which folks are ALREADY doing via TP trades, and they could ALREADY do this via pay pal since forever. same result, only now Turbine made it safer.
    Exactly... This is not another step down the slippery slope... not yet... The ASAH sells nothing we can't already buy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  7. #107
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    The ONLY thing you post about is p2w... for months now.
    Incorrect. And this shows you obviously havent reviewed my recent posting history. Heck, you werent even willing to type the name of the thread I provided into the search bar to take a gander for yourself.

    And you still have not answered the question either.

    So, the question I ask of you is.... how rediculous does it get before YOU draw the line?
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #108
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Exactly... This is not another step down the slippery slope... not yet... The ASAH sells nothing we can't already buy.
    It allows Turbine to literally sell gear in the store, albeit ina convoluted fashion, or do you think they wont populate the ASAH themselves if players dont do it for them to their satisfaction?
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #109
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post

    I'm not exactly sure how you think Turbine is supposed to make money. If you were in charge they would have closed down this year, after giving everything away for free for 3 years straight.

    .
    By focusing on the quality of the game to ensure long term success.

    And you have no authority to make any comment on what would happen if I made the decisions, because you have no idea what decisions I would make. I would have not needed to give anything away at all. You see, you seem to think that this is the only choice they have. Its either resort to p2w or close their doors, and this type of in the box only thinking is what brings profitable enterprises down roads they cant recover from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post

    DDO seems to be wildly successful to me... I'm having a blast playing this game.
    There are quite a few games that have closed down that many individual people had a blast playing, which is certainly not the criteria for how successful a game will be in the long term. If it was wildly successful, why abandon focusing on the game itself in order to just toss more p2w at people?
    Last edited by Chai; 03-16-2013 at 09:59 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #110
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Miasto Stołeczne Warszawa (The Capital City of Warsaw)
    Posts
    6,714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    It is not pay to win. At best you can pay to gear up on non bta and btc items. That is not winning unless you think unbound and btcoe items = win. Which folks are ALREADY doing via TP trades, and they could ALREADY do this via pay pal since forever. same result, only now Turbine made it safer.


    As for me, the line is, and always has been, that as long as the store does not sell gear that can only be acquired through cash that is superior to any gear you can acquire in game, then I do not care what it sells. The monetization of the game does not bother me since I do not confuse this game with an actual PnP game.


    You seem quite passionate about the direction Turbine and other games are headed. Maybe when the user tools are at the point that anyone can create boutique games as easily as they did MUDs twenty years ago, you can create something that follows the philosophy you espouse. Until then, I do not see the point of calling every new thing pay to cheat or pay to win. It will not stop the tide from coming in. These forums will not significantly influence the direction the game overlords have decided to take.
    So selling items in store unavaible anywhere else would be p2w, but selling set of powerful abilities unavaible anywhere else isn't?

  11. #111
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble View Post
    People bent over and took it with tomes in the store.

    People bent over and took it with raid timer bypass in the store.

    People bent over and took it with XP stones in the store.

    People will bend over and take it again with Shards. Not everybody mind you...but I'd imagine most people "offended" by pay to win/cheat/skip schemes quit (or at least quit spending money) loooong before now. /shrug

    Personally, I am over the whole F2P MMO thing (actually, videogames in general with paid DLC on disc, expansions vs patches, microtransactions, DRM, etc). Playing games is a lot less fun when you can practically feel the devs eyeballing your wallet. Time to dump another $30 bucks in Kickstarter, then kill some time in some browser-based games
    How do you feel when you pass the $10 popcorn trough and the 196oz $8 soda keg at the movie theater?

    Years ago I came to the realization that we are all trying to feed house and clothe ourselves and our family's, without a socio economic system of employment and productivity we would be doing this in caves with 20 year if you don't get eaten first life spans.

    I am okay with money/employment/capitalism I would have made a terrible caveman.

    Despite some "idealistic" ideas that are contrary on the subject: providing employment while making a service or product that is worth buying: is perhaps one of the most underrated ethically upstanding things humanity can do for itself.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  12. #112
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    It is not pay to win. At best you can pay to gear up on non bta and btc items. That is not winning unless you think unbound and btcoe items = win. Which folks are ALREADY doing via TP trades, and they could ALREADY do this via pay pal since forever. same result, only now Turbine made it safer.


    As for me, the line is, and always has been, that as long as the store does not sell gear that can only be acquired through cash that is superior to any gear you can acquire in game, then I do not care what it sells. The monetization of the game does not bother me since I do not confuse this game with an actual PnP game.


    You seem quite passionate about the direction Turbine and other games are headed. Maybe when the user tools are at the point that anyone can create boutique games as easily as they did MUDs twenty years ago, you can create something that follows the philosophy you espouse. Until then, I do not see the point of calling every new thing pay to cheat or pay to win. It will not stop the tide from coming in. These forums will not significantly influence the direction the game overlords have decided to take.
    I call it p2w because thats what it is, regardless of how much a few people who disagree with me continue to want to argue against using the term, because of differences in how they define it -vs- how most of the mmo community defines it. It is what it is regardless of the term used to identify it, and youre not really defining the term or the situation it describes, youre just showing us where you draw your own line on the issue.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-16-2013 at 10:09 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #113
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    As for me, the line is, and always has been, that as long as the store does not sell gear that can only be acquired through cash that is superior to any gear you can acquire in game, then I do not care what it sells. The monetization of the game does not bother me since I do not confuse this game with an actual PnP game.
    directly or indirectly? how do you think you are going to get astrals? from playing the game? how many have you looted? Turbine controls drop rates. you think suddenly there will be increased drop rates and drop places for astrals?

    many of us know DDO is not PnP. some people like to use PnP arguments, but we all play on a computer and not on a tabletop. pre-WB the game, imo, had less P2W, quality was better and content was better. with WB holding the reigns, P2W has increased drastically, quality of the game has gone downhill and we now have updates.. I mean expansions what seem to be once a year now.

    understandably, Turbine needs to make money, but for once, it seems more eyes are open to what will come from the ASAH and non supporters of P2W, like me, are not so small in number.

  14. #114
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I gave you the name of the thread, and you werent willing to type the name into the search bar?

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=267134
    Not reading that entire thing... But looked through the first couple of pages

    Quote Originally Posted by Illtemperedclavier View Post
    Eventually we will be able to buy "unopened chest from <insert quest here>".
    Hasn't happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirea View Post
    Selling greensteel would be, in my opinion, going too far.
    Hasn't happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by YakoSpiritFist View Post
    It's kind of a double edged sword. If they started selling top shelf gear and things like that
    Hasn't happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thailand_Dan View Post
    Shards of Power might come to the store? Sign me up, here's a blank TP check. However, the day I hear of content that can only be entered after a store bought item is purchased (For Premium, F2P, and VIP members), is the day I head out.
    Hasn't happened.

    Having played around with some "Free" MMOs, mostly web-based, I have to say DDO has shown a lot of restraint in allowing F2Pers to explore. It is possible to play DDO for literally months and months without spending a dime, whereas many others restrict you upfront, and eventually make it impossible to continue without paying.
    Valid point.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeanDM View Post
    I don't think that Turbine would offer "named" items through the store (like Carnifex, Worldshaper, etc).

    So I do think there is a line that they won't cross, lest they lose *all* credibility.
    Hasn't happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlocke View Post
    Probably Essences of Cleansing and Larges.
    Hasn't happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    I do expect to see raid loot available in there eventually.
    Hasn't happened.

    I got bored after reading 3 pages of predictions that haven't come to pass yet. What the heck are you talking about Chai?? Three years and Turbine hasn't gone as far down the slippery slope as you all predicted. What does it take to admit you're wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  15. #115
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    If it was wildly successful, why abandon focusing on the game itself in order to just toss more p2w at people?
    They aren't focusing on the game? Have you seen all the new content, new items, new abilities that came out in the last 12 months? And a new expansion is on it's way...

    Pull your head out of the sand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  16. #116
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Not reading that entire thing... But looked through the first couple of pages



    Hasn't happened.



    Hasn't happened.



    Hasn't happened.



    Hasn't happened.



    Valid point.



    Hasn't happened.



    Hasn't happened.



    Hasn't happened.

    I got bored after reading 3 pages of predictions that haven't come to pass yet. What the heck are you talking about Chai?? Three years and Turbine hasn't gone as far down the slippery slope as you all predicted. What does it take to admit you're wrong?
    Read the thread. Youre only quoting the items that support your argument, as I expected you would. If I was wrong, you would not be so obsessed with quoting every one of my posts and continue arguing about it. You do this because you understand I am correct, and you dont want to admit it. But soon enough, your line on this issue WILL be crossed. Heck you even go as far as to continue to gloss over that question I asjked you and wont even answer what that line is. So, the question I ask of you is.... how rediculous does it get before YOU draw the line?
    Last edited by Chai; 03-16-2013 at 10:12 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #117
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    So selling items in store unavaible anywhere else would be p2w, but selling set of powerful abilities unavaible anywhere else isn't?
    Explain... What powerful abilities are sold in the store that are unavailable anywhere else?? You talking about EDs? Expansion packs can't really be considered P2W.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #118
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    They aren't focusing on the game? Have you seen all the new content, new items, new abilities that came out in the last 12 months? And a new expansion is on it's way...

    Pull your head out of the sand.
    7 months of peoples epic Xp disappearing with them saying they cant reproduce the issue. Because their people hours are tied up in implementing more p2w.

    And ah yes the EXPANSION - you know, that wonderful little change in the term they use for describing new content, where update = VIP doesnt have to pay for, and expansion = pay for it. So they now have a way of monetizing new content. Congrats, you just proved my point.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #119
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Read the thread. Youre only quoting the items that support your argument, as I expected you would.
    You quote the items that were correctly predicted then. You claim the thread proves you right... I read the first three pages and saw the exact same wild predictions three years ago that I see today... "Raid loot in the store!! Oh noes!"

    Which hasn't happened...

    I'm not doing any more research... You prove your own points... A quick look shows me you're just blowing smoke as usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  20. #120
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You quote the items that were correctly predicted then. You claim the thread proves you right... I read the first three pages and saw the exact same wild predictions three years ago that I see today... "Raid loot in the store!! Oh noes!"

    Which hasn't happened...

    I'm not doing any more research... You prove your own points... A quick look shows me you're just blowing smoke as usual.
    Refusing to do more research = refusing to be objective on the issue. I already did my homework and provided what was needed.

    Ill even toss you a hint: Theres 4 you missed on the first 3 pages which are in game currently, and 9 more after that.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-16-2013 at 10:34 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

Page 6 of 15 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload