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  1. #81
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Dude you are way off base, as most 'slippery slope' advocates are. The exchange is no more a cash AH than the current AH is. folks can purchase items with TPs to sell on the AH for plat now. The only difference is it is much harder to earn AS in game than plat, so it encourages those who like shortcuts to spend TPs on Shards. But TPs are not money. You can earn TPs simply by playing and never paying a dime.
    This is far more direct path to pay cash on an AH for in game goods than the current AH is. The whole being able to earn TP justification is stale, because someone with 200 TP in their account is not going to be able to grind out a couple thousand TP to get the item they want when it is sitting on the market at a price they can agree with right now. THey can and likely will buy those TP on the spot however.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #82
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Yes if you carry a sign every day that proclaims "the end is nigh" you will eventually be right. And I suppose that is all that really matterx, eh?
    Pleasse quote where I have stated that, even once. Ill save you some time. You wont be able to find a post of mine that states this, as it is a strawman argument created by those who disagree with my view on how p2w impacts the game. In fact, on your journey to find even one post that states this, you will actually find quite a few posts of mine that reply to people who are actually threatening mass exodus if they dont get their way, that this has been threatened quite a few times, but has never once happened.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-11-2013 at 04:48 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #83
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    I would be happy if they added this to allow selling and commerce for BTx items. I just want them to take TP = AS from the store so it is something done in game.

  4. #84
    The Hatchery bigolbear's Avatar
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    Well folks.. this is the evolution of the micro transaction model. Get used to it because it makes money and its here to stay... atleast until the next evolution comes along.

    It realy doesnt matter if us players like the idea or not, A false curency in game that is purchased with real cash is PROVEN to be a money maker for games.

    It obfuscates just how much you are spending, that is its purpose.
    It distributes ingame wealth and real money across the 2 major types of players - the time wealthy and the cash wealthy. Inevitably the time wealthy are infact wealthy in game in terms of gear, platinum, etc. The cash wealthy dont tend to be because they are working long hours thus play less. This is another of its purposes, and the key to its success.

    What turbine are doing - and have been doing for the last few years is simply following suit with other industry leaders. Certainly turbine were amongst the first (big mmos) to adopt the microtransaction model and it was a resounding success saving DDO from abandon and masivly increasing the revenue from lotro.

    In addition to ASAH and daily dice expect the folowing in the coming year or so....

    1. Astral shard to TP exchange - probably based on a market place system where the value 'floats' as determined by the sale value (in tp) of astral shards by players and the sale value(in AS) of TP. Expect turbine to take a cut, and set min and max values for each. Despite the free market here AS/TP will NEVER be tradeable for actual cash - both for legal and bussines reasons.

    2. many items curently sold on the store to be made available for AS at your local vendor. manapots, mumy elixirs, loot gems, crafting ingrediants, xp elixirs, heal pots, superior repairs, temporary buffs, augments, superior quality equipment(beter than vendor trash, worse than named - the cormyrian stuff is a good example).

    3. astral shards to be earnable in game through multiple methods - dialy dice, and other 'daily' features - perhaps a return of the daily challenge system, or the first quest completed each day could offer a reward. It will be features designed to encourage us to log in and PLAY each day, each week etc etc.

    4. A direct plat to AS and AS to plat converter - which will take a cut on both directions.


    The ramifications for players (if done right/not too greedy on the cuts they take.) -

    1. casuals with deep wallets will have beter equipment. They will buy AS to buy gear/boosts/xp - this group is actuly your most profitable, they splurge and spend a great deal but do not occupy server time all that much.

    2. Casuals with shallow wallets will not be effected significantly - BUT they will feel as tho they are missing out becuase every one else has 'cheated'. This is where the 'free AS' and daily events come in - to turn these casuals into regulars, alternatively they feel they must spend and do so - either way the point is to turn this non profitable demographic into either 1 or 4, idealy without upsetting them in the process.

    3. regular players with deep wallets will not be effected significantly - they will not have to spend real money because they will aquire many AS in game - what they dont find through play they can buy, ultimately this is no different to curently as they are already 'plat rich'.

    4. regular players with shallow wallets will be the ones selling most of the goods - they will be at a massive advantage able to aquire new content and character options by selling loot they do not need and completing daily challenges regularly. Part of this process is recognising that this demographic are infact essential to the opperation of an mmo and should be rewarded - they are your guild leaders, raid leaders, advice givers etc.

    5. outliers - in ddo that would be permadeathers, True Free to play, static groupers that dont use AH etc etc... group will mostly be ignored as its not a sufficiently large demographic to count, just havign these groups will impove the image of the game as it demonstrates diverstiy.


    The ramifications for players (if NOT done right/too greedy on the cuts they take.)
    If there arent enough cool uses for AS - no one will care, no one will use them.

    If the cuts on transactions are too large - your less wealthy (but more numerous) players will ignore it - and many will leave - the game will become a niche game and loose out long term. (i believe this is what scare most of us, a return to the dark days of ddo....)

    If there are not enough ways in game to earn AS/TP then people will see it as a blatant cash grab (which it is obviously).

    The trick here is to be very subtle about it - the 30/40% ah cut is NOT subtle..... I honestly think this whole system could work very well for DDO as it has been proven to work for other games, Im concerned tho that turbine will be greedy/stupid/obvious and as usual underestimate the inteligence of its player base.

    We are D&D players, Were all geeks for sure - most of us are profesional 30 somethings... not children playing with dads credit card. Just a quick observation of my guilies and freinds - were all in our 20's or 30's or 40's, were all profesionals, inteligent and well educated - engineers, doctors, teachers, govenrnment etc etc. Many of the 'tricks' used by most mmos and smaller online games(eg farmville ****) will not work on that kind of player base.
    Ex Euro player from devourer: Charaters on orien(Officer of Under Estimated & Nightfox): Wrothgar, Cobolt, Shadeweaver, TheMetal, Metaphysical, Allfred, Razortusk and many more.
    stuff by me: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...02#post4938302

  5. #85
    Community Member Xilth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigolbear View Post
    What turbine are doing - and have been doing for the last few years is simply following suit with other industry leaders. Certainly turbine were amongst the first (big mmos) to adopt the microtransaction model and it was a resounding success saving DDO from abandon and masivly increasing the revenue from lotro.
    I'm still not convinced that following others is good idea. DDO is niche game with very specific player base, not the same as big mmo which have higher player base and recognizable game and company names. Something that worked for them don't have to work here...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigolbear View Post
    We are D&D players, Were all geeks for sure - most of us are profesional 30 somethings... not children playing with dads credit card. Just a quick observation of my guilies and freinds - were all in our 20's or 30's or 40's, were all profesionals, inteligent and well educated - engineers, doctors, teachers, govenrnment etc etc. Many of the 'tricks' used by most mmos and smaller online games(eg farmville ****) will not work on that kind of player base.
    Yes, you are right here and you still think that following other mmo company is good? DDO and other mmos have different player base, im not convinced that "improvements" that worked there will work here. For me astral shards is pure insulting cash grab which i won't use in any form, if Turbine wants to earn money this way, fine... no problem but that won't be my money

    And some more thoughts, other games started with cash shops, all players there had option buy wealth or earn it in game, from start, and they know for what they are signing in. In DDO players had only playing option... but after long years Turbine changes mind and adds payed option, where big wallet can make anyone wealthy player How do you think players who earned they wealth will feel with that? where something that they spends years is obtainable with some cash? or even more painfull situation where they wealth isn't worth much because inflation killed it?

    ...as i said in other thread, items (goods) in DDO are limited by many factors, like drop rates, difficulty of some content etc, but shards won't be limited by anything. If it works like Turbine wants many players will use it for buying stuff and probably there will be a lot more buyers then sellers so prices can skyrocket, making plat/scales worthless and shards the only real currency, players wealth obtained from years of playing could vanish. Its very extreme situation and even i'm not sure if it could happend but its posibility. For Turbine puting in game cash shop can be very profitable but its also very risky if it gets out of control.
    Last edited by Xilth; 03-12-2013 at 04:52 AM.

  6. #86
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Pleasse quote where I have stated that, even once. Ill save you some time. You wont be able to find a post of mine that states this, as it is a strawman argument created by those who disagree with my view on how p2w impacts the game. In fact, on your journey to find even one post that states this, you will actually find quite a few posts of mine that reply to people who are actually threatening mass exodus if they dont get their way, that this has been threatened quite a few times, but has never once happened.
    So you don't think P2W is causing players to leave the game faster than new players join? Huh... I could have sworn that was your argument against P2W. Now I REALLY don't get your P2W complaints/concerns.

  7. #87
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    So you don't think P2W is causing players to leave the game faster than new players join? Huh... I could have sworn that was your argument against P2W. Now I REALLY don't get your P2W complaints/concerns.
    Thats not what he said actually - hge made some wise crack about carrying a sign every day that proclaims "the end is nigh".

    The more p2w is added, and the higher the degree of what is possible with p2w is ramped up, the higher the attrition rate gets, starting at the high end.

    Posted quite a few places now.

    You will also notice that the time between updates where people are away from the game is getting longer, because it takes far less time to acquire what one wants from the new content. The best loot isnt even in raids anymore and all gear slots can be geared in stuff from quests and still make a very strong toon. At the extreme end when this hits, people wont even have to play the game to have high end named items in every slot. We are already there with btcoe items, but its about to become far more pronounced now that btcoe can be sold.

    There are alot of people whose threshold of tolerance is being put to the test with this new incarnation of p2w, and its not going to get easier for people to continue to ignore it as time progresses. People from previous threads who showed up in droves to state that the previous thread topic doesnt affect them in any way, are some of the people having the strongest negative reaction to the shard auction house. Theres only so much of this kind of money grab stuff they can do before people start waking up to it.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-12-2013 at 06:53 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Doesnt surprise me at all - another step in the p2w direction.
    The only reason they need to take "steps" is because for whatever reason some people seem to have a hard time getting used to the idea of buying virtual things in games, even though they do it all the time elsewhere in life.

    In 5 or 10 years people will be buying "raid loot" "completionist" "level 100" (whatever sacred cow's in whatever game) in game stores. It might not be DDO's store (though I suspect so) but it will be commonplace.

    Commonplace as Payperview, Itunes, Netflix, DLC, Virtual Consol etc...

    As long as a game is FUN TO PLAY the "carrot" to keep playing it can and should be be THE FUN, items in MMO's as a mechanism to FORCE PEOPLE TO DO THINGS THAT AREN'T FUN, are going to go out of style (they already are going out of style), at least partially because a lot of people want to play something a few times and move on. I say partially because there can always be mechanisms that ENCOURAGE repetition, and those mechanisms will often provide that "carrot" for players who ENJOY "time attack" style meta gaming.

    For example sell Upgrade seals/commendations in the store, but make the base items require a few repetitions (fairly high drop rate) BUT make a few select versions of the base items that are just a little better (like EE items versus the EH version) that can only be gotten with grinding. You meet the needs of the entire player base this way. You want the uber carrot? You need to grind. You want nearly as good? play and repeat for upgrade seals/commendations, totally hate that quest? buy the base item off the AH and buy the upgrades from the store.

    Granted DDO and many other Meta gaming MMO's are currently very set in the need to make people repeat content (and as they are finding out, this pushes players away, as I suspect the average player is not a powergamer who enjoys "farming" or "grinding", so their grouping panels are populated. These "grinding and farming" meta gaming centric MMO's are going to go the way of the dinosaur eventually as well. Or they will have to lower meta gaming to compete.

    I'm telling you this "item lottery" style of gaming is a passing thing...Turbine seems to already be moving away from it. People play MMO's because they want to escape the humdrum where they are just another joe or jane average, and feel powerful, and have fun in a alternate reality/fantasy fiction. What was the last fantasy novel that featured a character that had to repeat the last dungeon 20 times to get the Sword of Foozle?

    They play MMO's for a while and they eventually catch on to the fact that it's a hamster wheel with no end and no pay off, unless you farm and grind and "powergame", so they move on. This is why the MMO industry is so full of failed games, and even the most successful are shrinking and forced to move to free to play.

    In a few years as this shakes out and designs change and evolve and adapt to what people really want, MMO's aren't going to be the same Everquest style hamster wheels. People wont have the same shocked provincial concept of buying stuff in games "you bought pixels!?" Well yeah what did you buy when you payed $49.99 for 2 hours of WWE Raw, Einstein?
    Last edited by IronClan; 03-12-2013 at 02:09 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Most people arent focused with farming only the most current content until their eyes bleed and like to play in different areas regularly. They also understand that the second best item in slot is just that, the second best item in slot, and not garbage simply because its not the best item in slot. This "current gear will be obsolete" stuff perpetuated on these forums is a myth. 4 year old gear still isnt obsolete. Why would 6 month old gear be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You will also notice that the time between updates where people are away from the game is getting longer, because it takes far less time to acquire what one wants from the new content. The best loot isnt even in raids anymore and all gear slots can be geared in stuff from quests and still make a very strong toon. At the extreme end when this hits, people wont even have to play the game to have high end named items in every slot. We are already there with btcoe items, but its about to become far more pronounced now that btcoe can be sold.
    So on the one hand, most people don't care about items, yet on the other hand, p2w is ruining the game?

    Why are you concerned about how people acquire items if having the best items is not a big deal and 4 year old gear is perfectly fine?

  10. #90
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgari View Post
    So on the one hand, most people don't care about items, yet on the other hand, p2w is ruining the game?

    Why are you concerned about how people acquire items if having the best items is not a big deal and 4 year old gear is perfectly fine?
    Maybe I'm giving Chai too much credit, but I think what he's actually saying is more along the lines of, "If you can buy a second-best-in-slot item that is good enough for EE and play where you want to play, why farm a raid for a best-in-slot item that's a marginal upgrade?" And for the people who do want to farm for that marginal upgrade, they can now use timer bypasses to do all their farming right away, so they won't still be running the raid when the more casual players have time to catch up.

  11. #91
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    People bent over and took it with tomes in the store.

    People bent over and took it with raid timer bypass in the store.

    People bent over and took it with XP stones in the store.

    People will bend over and take it again with Shards. Not everybody mind you...but I'd imagine most people "offended" by pay to win/cheat/skip schemes quit (or at least quit spending money) loooong before now. /shrug

    Personally, I am over the whole F2P MMO thing (actually, videogames in general with paid DLC on disc, expansions vs patches, microtransactions, DRM, etc). Playing games is a lot less fun when you can practically feel the devs eyeballing your wallet. Time to dump another $30 bucks in Kickstarter, then kill some time in some browser-based games
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubethulu
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    No reach around references.

  12. #92
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Thats not what he said actually - hge made some wise crack about carrying a sign every day that proclaims "the end is nigh".

    The more p2w is added, and the higher the degree of what is possible with p2w is ramped up, the higher the attrition rate gets, starting at the high end.

    Posted quite a few places now.

    You will also notice that the time between updates where people are away from the game is getting longer, because it takes far less time to acquire what one wants from the new content. The best loot isnt even in raids anymore and all gear slots can be geared in stuff from quests and still make a very strong toon. At the extreme end when this hits, people wont even have to play the game to have high end named items in every slot. We are already there with btcoe items, but its about to become far more pronounced now that btcoe can be sold.

    There are alot of people whose threshold of tolerance is being put to the test with this new incarnation of p2w, and its not going to get easier for people to continue to ignore it as time progresses. People from previous threads who showed up in droves to state that the previous thread topic doesnt affect them in any way, are some of the people having the strongest negative reaction to the shard auction house. Theres only so much of this kind of money grab stuff they can do before people start waking up to it.
    Nah. Just more of the same doomcriers beating the same old drum every time there is the slightest change. Half of them do not even play any more, just hang around this forum like bitter revnants trying to spread their infection to those of us who still enjoy playing.

    I have not seen a positive post from you about DDO in many months. Has absolutely nothing changed for the better? If not, maybe it is time to move on, eh?

  13. #93
    Community Member zebidos's Avatar
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    My 2 cents,

    I doubt many people will use it, DDO players tend to be math savy and won't put up with the real money cut the house takes.

    I think in one month time it will have a max of 10 items for auction on any day, I know for me astral shards are pointless, I prefer plat to buy scrolls, pots, hirelings etc.

    Not sure how this is going to enhance our game play / fun. Ill happily spend money in the DDO store for bells of opening, spell ingredients (to avoid annoying my party members) stones of XP for my TRs, XP elixers etc.

    But I can't see the value in the shards at all and think its a waste of dev time, I am kind of disappointed, it is an obvious cash grab at the expense of fun.

    I have no problem with Turbine trying to make money, but there are other ways to do so that enhance the enjoyment of us, the customers.

  14. #94
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Pleasse quote where I have stated that, even once. Ill save you some time. You wont be able to find a post of mine that states this, as it is a strawman argument created by those who disagree with my view on how p2w impacts the game.
    So, if p2w doesn't hurt the game, then why are you against it? I'm pretty sure you think p2w causes attrition from games... So how can you claim your "p2w is causing people to leave the game!" aren't DOOM posts?

    (Not that I believe ANYTHING in the store is P2W (except maybe the fate point thing))
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  15. #95
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I have not seen a positive post from you about DDO in many months. Has absolutely nothing changed for the better? If not, maybe it is time to move on, eh?
    Chai is 100% all the time now "P2W! P2W! P2W!"

    He's gotten pretty boring...

    I'm not sure how many years have to go by without significant player attrition before he will admit he's wrong about the affect of the DDO store on the game.

    Kind of like that one guy who claims that Turbine's business model is a failure, as they continue to sell hundreds of Ottos' Boxes, and thousands of tomes, and tens of thousands of raid bypass timers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  16. #96
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Well this really is bad. I don't care if Turbine wants to sell me loot for real money but making me grind another ah looking for pieces of loot to buy from other players to make them money is just plain awful.

    I liked my idea of just selling me the loot directly from the ddo store much better.

    Btw do players selling things have an option to turn the shards into cash or at least tps? Cause we all know the shards the game gets all turn into cash. Otherwise if it takes off it's like you got a bunch of free employees. Hmm that is pretty smart.
    Last edited by Orratti; 03-15-2013 at 11:42 PM.

  17. #97
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Nah. Just more of the same doomcriers beating the same old drum every time there is the slightest change. Half of them do not even play any more, just hang around this forum like bitter revnants trying to spread their infection to those of us who still enjoy playing.

    I have not seen a positive post from you about DDO in many months. Has absolutely nothing changed for the better? If not, maybe it is time to move on, eh?
    And why do half of them not play anymore? (why they hang around the forum of a game they havent played in a long time is another question entirely).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Chai is 100% all the time now "P2W! P2W! P2W!"

    He's gotten pretty boring...

    .
    Neither of you have done a good job of reviewing my recent posting history.

    There is a fair number of people on these forums who always try to slap the extremist label on those they disagree with, and anyone worth their salt in a debate doesnt buy into this. When I post my agreement with something Turbine did, Im being labeled a fanboi who always defends them by the same 4-5 people, and when I post my nonsupport of something I dont agree with that they did, Im being labeled a doomsayer by the same 2-3 people.

    Whose more reasonable? The person who agrees with some but not all of the things they do and posts their support or nonsupport on a topic by topic basis, or those who ALWAYS post in agreement with them, or those who ALWAYS post in nonsupport of them. Ill give you a hint. If you ALWAYS post one way or ther other, thats the wrong answer.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-16-2013 at 05:01 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #98
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And why do half of them not play anymore? (why they hang around the forum of a game they havent played in a long time is another question entirely).


    Don't know, don't care. I just find amusing that they do.
    Neither of you have done a good job of reviewing my recent posting history.

    There is a fair number of people on these forums who always try to slap the extremist label on those they disagree with, and anyone worth their salt in a debate doesnt buy into this. When I post my agreement with something Turbine did, Im being labeled a fanboi who always defends them by the same 4-5 people, and when I post my nonsupport of something I dont agree with that they did, Im being labeled a doomsayer by the same 2-3 people.

    I do not think you are an extremist. I do think the constant "I told it was pay to win" posts undermine the substance of some of your posts. It honestly wears on my last nerve at times. But that is my problem and my therapist tells me I might overcome it some day.


    I do find it hilarious that the haters call you fanboi until you express negativity about something Turbine decides to do and then you welcomed as an honarary member of the Friends Against Turbine Brigade of Yesteryear Superstars. It is even funnier how much you and Thrudh are in some folks's heads just for speaking your minds.

  19. #99
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    So, if p2w doesn't hurt the game, then why are you against it? I'm pretty sure you think p2w causes attrition from games... So how can you claim your "p2w is causing people to leave the game!" aren't DOOM posts?

    (Not that I believe ANYTHING in the store is P2W (except maybe the fate point thing))
    p2w sacrifices long term focus on the games quality to drive financial success, for short term profit bolstering through convenience mechanisms. There is a saturation point, and when that happens the attrition grows exponentially. The saturation point is when p2w has made the game so convenient that increasing the degree of it even further doesnt cause people to buy into it anymore at the top tier.

    We are already at the point where people can fully gear a toon without ever having played the game. This new ASAH makes that even easier.

    You can use reductio ad absurdum type analysis to determine what the point of rediculousness is. If you bought a +4 tome for a stat last time around will you buy a +5 tome for the same stat when those hit the market? If you used to use 30% pots for xp grinding, did you move to 50% pots when those came out? Keep increasing the values of each, and at some point, everyone will draw a line where the entire equation becomes completely rediculous.

    So, how rediculous does it get before YOU draw the line? Right now we are at:

    First life toon, start at vet2 - level 7, run deleras part 2 a couple times then pt3+4 to hit 8 and get a VOM. Now buy a tier 2 Xp tome, a 50% xp pot, and use those, then use your Xp stone. Youre now level 19 with a 50% potion ticking. With the ASAH you can just buy all the gear you need with real money as well, very conveniently (far more conveniently than pedaling TP codes to get plat or gear).

    This kind of stuff was complete hyperbole in 2010 when the "slippery slope" thread was posted and people were completely denying the slippery slope even existed in regards to how bad p2w could get. And we havent even come remotely close to seeing how bad it can get at this point, but we are well on our way.

    So, the question I ask of you is.... how rediculous does it get before YOU draw the line?
    Last edited by Chai; 03-16-2013 at 08:36 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #100
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    As far as I'm aware, the only items allowed to trade on the ASAH are unbound items, BTCOE (unbound) and BTCOE (bound) items.

    I'm guessing this means that bound to character on acquire, bound to character (and on a separate line bound to account) do not meet the requirements for the ASAH. If this is true, then green steel is off the table, as well as alchemical weapons, TOD items, and epic items from the various epic quests (epic ring of the silver concord, epic spare hand for instance).

    This seems to fit with items that are generally between items 21-25, with a few items here and there below level 20, and with the occasional random gen loot (lacerating, virulent poison etc).

    I have only a problem with this...

    Suppose I have a +1 Greataxe of Lacerating with a festival icy burst on it. It's BTC for a reason, but I've finished using it. I could put it on the ASAH and tell me friend to buy it ASAP, perhaps before I put it up for auction. I then log into a different character and tell my friend to put it back on the auction for the minimal shard price so I can buy it back and use with the character that I am currently logged in with.

    I don't know what the minimum buyout price is, but in this type of transaction, each will lose 5 shards in the posting fee, how ever many shards for the minimum buyout price. I'm sure that its probably a lot for a greataxe of lacerating with an icy kit on it, but there are plenty of other items that can be traded this way.

    This is a major concern for me...

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