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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    WTB Raid loot. Offering $10.

    ...sure, the $10 shows up as astral shards, but it's still selling raid loot to people who have never stepped foot in the raid.

    So very disappointing.
    raid loot is BtCoA, not BtCoE, and as such it cannot be sold on this new auction house.

  2. #42

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    Only items that at any time had been unbound can be sold. If it was bound as soon as you picked it up, then it will not go on the shard house. That means all raid loot, commendations (heroic and regular), cannith crafting, non-blank greensteels...whatever. Can. Not. Be. Sold.

    Reposting what I wrote in the Lamma release notes thread:

    Me:
    What bothers me here is the "Turbine takes a pretty impressive cut" part. We're already paying for the astral shards...you certainly can't make claims about getting them for free when astral diamonds drop about 1 in every 5,000 chests at most.

    Posting fee? Ok. And I like how it is refunded if the item doesn't sell. But a percentage transaction fee on top of that? That's terrible.

    Let's say you put up a bound BtCoE item and it sells for 5 shards.
    1- You lose you 1 shard deposit.
    2- The AH takes a 40% cut. That's 2 shards.

    So out of the 5 shards paid, your net gain...2? That's a 60% loss vs the actual sale price. It's one thing to do this with platinum. Platinum is cheap. Now you're talking about real money. You go ahead and find me a single auction house anywhere in the real world that takes a 60% cut of the items they sell.

    You've stepped out of the "this is just a game" defense when you involve real money. A 60% cut is unconscionable.

    At MOST the AH cut should be 10%, and it should always round down. So in the above scenario, the AH fee would be ZERO SHARDS, and you'd just lose your posting fee.

    If the system goes in the way that it is currently designed, it will fail totally and utterly, to an even worse degree that PvP did. PvP had lots of people clamoring for it. Nobody has asked for this.
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  3. #43
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    For those *****ing about this, NEWSFLASH: all high end trades are being done by either barter or TP code trade. This doesn't change a thing except make things more convenient for everyone which is a good thing. Almost all in-game currency is worthless. Plat is worthless. Red scales, green scales have become worthless. Most people just haven't realized it yet. This game is in desperate need of an actual currency because the current TP code + barter system is massively inefficient (and prone to scamming too)

  4. #44
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    There is either a valid game-design reason why mediocre items are BtCoE or not. If there is, then selling them for TP-related currency is a naked cashgrab and shameful. If there is not, then the items should be unbound.

    I support much of what Turbine does to raise money to keep the game afloat but this reeks of greed. Changing a loot system to be more grindy then selling the answer is punishing players and bad form.
    Might as well put it in this thread too. I don't like it.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    For those *****ing about this, NEWSFLASH: all high end trades are being done by either barter or TP code trade. This doesn't change a thing except make things more convenient for everyone which is a good thing. Almost all in-game currency is worthless. Plat is worthless. Red scales, green scales have become worthless. Most people just haven't realized it yet. This game is in desperate need of an actual currency because the current TP code + barter system is massively inefficient (and prone to scamming too)

    You think that anyone is going to let Turbine Cut 60% to 30% for each deal?
    Think again, this new AH is at best a way to get rid of Bound equip that no longer is needed for this char and was once Btcoe.
    Sure some will use it but you can bet that using Forum will be 60% to 30% cheaper.
    If not more because Astral Shards dont let you buy what you want from Store.
    Last edited by Daemoneyes; 03-06-2013 at 07:43 AM.
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  6. #46
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Really, the IRS doesn't even require reporting of less than $10 from any one source, and on my list of life worries income tax on my DDO income really isn't even close to the top of the list
    3. Pondering circumstances even though I'd never end up in such.

    Considering your current income from DDO is ZERO, of course you don't have to worry about it. DUH.

    But if you could get RL monies out of it like the Blizzard version or Linkend (I believe that still uses a Lindend dollar that has a conversion rate), that now can become a source of income for you that legally would need to be declared. I am NOT saying that your average player who does a sale here and there would need to declare, but there ARE players that would be playing the market considerably.
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 03-06-2013 at 07:24 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    But if you could get RL monies out of it
    Yes, that would be the key. You would either

    1) have to find a way to convert in game items to a real life currency or

    2) be able to purchase items usable in real life with either TP. astral shards or plat

    (2) is unlikely to ever happen. There are ways today to achieve (1) through third party sites (which violate the ToS).

    Of course, astral shards themselves and the new Astral Shard Auction House do not assist in either (1) or (2). Hence, a real life income tax is not applicable to this discussion.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    This game is in desperate need of an actual currency because the current TP code + barter system is massively inefficient (and prone to scamming too)
    Conceptually, I agree. The devil is in the details

    1) The AH fee is ridiculous. There are valid reasons to take a 30% fee on plat auctions. The game continually injects more plat into the system. Without some way to drain that plat off, inflation would be even higher than it is now.

    2) The system would be simpler and more beneficial to the players involved if the AH was updated to support TP auctions, not astral shard auctions. Alternatively, Turbine could support converting astral shards into TP at the same exchange rate it converts TP into astral shards. Of course, such a system would only serve to highlight how redundant astral shards really are.

  9. #49
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    This thread should have been named The Shard 'pay2win' Exchange

    So they create an 'auction house' of sorts where the only currency allowed is astral shards, a currency that is purchased with a cash investment, in lieu of a time investment (platinum) Lo and behold where will this train be headed, when the supply of shards dries up after the house takes its 30% cut per transaction?

    Oh, and now gambling too via Daily Dice. Spending cash for the express purpose of pulling a lever on a slot machine, with the reward of a virtual item. But we do get a free pull on that smaller machine in the corner, over there.

    These are the most blatantly obvious money grab ideas I've seen, in any game.

    I'm laughing at this nonsense update. Since when did DDO decide to become a glorified video poker terminal..

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyfruit View Post
    Ridiculous considering how this is all real money instead of gold earned ingame...

    Vanishing 30-40%+5 of premium currency bought in the store... bah.
    And that's why only a complete fool would use this system. Better to trade for TP through the forums.

    Except for that bound stuff... Guess they have you there. Which might explain why they just turned a bunch of previously unbound stuff to bound.

  11. #51
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    And that's why only a complete fool would use this system. Better to trade for TP through the forums.

    Except for that bound stuff... Guess they have you there. Which might explain why they just turned a bunch of previously unbound stuff to bound.
    Quite frankly if we could put up Epic Shards and Seals into this AH, I'd be a fool in a heartbeat.

    There are epic items I've wanted for a long while that I just can't get on my own (my loot luck SUCKS) nor has work allowed me to game as much as I'd like as of late. (ah, rl responsibilities.)

    I know that there are people that are utterly against such. I used to be one of those, but it was pointed out that the old Shard/Seal method is NOT being used any more, newer gear is stronger and has a higher ML, the game lvl cap is going up again soon. These older epics aren't as powerful as they once were. So why not? Turbine only makes more monies out of it, and players can possibly get what they want.

  12. #52
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadereaper33 View Post
    raid loot is BtCoA, not BtCoE, and as such it cannot be sold on this new auction house.
    So The Shroud isn't a raid anymore?

    Greensteel is BtCoE.

    Also, it's pretty obvious where this is going next. The marketing department at Turbine isn't stupid. They know that they have to heat the metaphorical water while the players are in the pot instead of dropping the players straight into boiling water. We won't see BtCoA loot in the Shard Exchange until 2014.

    ...but we will see it.


    Edit: I don't mind that GS blanks could be put on the Shard Exchange, by the way. But according to the description posted in the release notes, full dual shard, cleansed Shroud gear can be posted on the Shard Exchange because that item was BtCoE.
    Last edited by HungarianRhapsody; 03-06-2013 at 09:42 AM.

  13. #53
    Community Member Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    We won't see BtCoA loot in the Shard Exchange until 2014.

    ...but we will see it.
    I fear you may be right. I dislike this direction to the game i enjoy. What irritates me the most though is that this will give Turbine further incentive to make ALL future loot bound, and truly sheds light on why so much previously unbound loot was changed to BTCoE in this last update.
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  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Conceptually, I agree. The devil is in the details

    1) The AH fee is ridiculous. There are valid reasons to take a 30% fee on plat auctions. The game continually injects more plat into the system. Without some way to drain that plat off, inflation would be even higher than it is now.
    I think this is the reason though, at least part of it. They do need a way
    to bleed astral shards out of the system in addition to purchases - analogous to
    plat. That way you have to buy more from the store - it's win-win for Turbine -
    you're effectively buying a consumable i.e. it's value is not absolute but rather
    has a sort of 'half-life' if you use them solely on the Shard Exchange.

    They've been continually trying to up the value of AS since their introduction
    e.g. temporary buffs, destiny point reset (anybody who believes those initial
    plat prices for doing this were 'a mistake' is wrong) etc.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I fear you may be right. I dislike this direction to the game i enjoy. What irritates me the most though is that this will give Turbine further incentive to make ALL future loot bound, and truly sheds light on why so much previously unbound loot was changed to BTCoE in this last update.
    I will have to agree, this does make recent changes look extremely suspect.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    For those *****ing about this, NEWSFLASH: all high end trades are being done by either barter or TP code trade. This doesn't change a thing except make things more convenient for everyone which is a good thing. Almost all in-game currency is worthless. Plat is worthless. Red scales, green scales have become worthless. Most people just haven't realized it yet. This game is in desperate need of an actual currency because the current TP code + barter system is massively inefficient (and prone to scamming too)
    I don't see anyone questioning or upset with that...but the current TP trades are done at full value. I put $20 into the game. I trade that $20 worth of game value to you for some stuff. You get $20 in Turbine bucks to spend.

    Using this system, I put $20 of value into the game, I trade that $20 worth of game value to you for some stuff, you get $12 in Turbine bucks to spend. $8...*POOF*

  17. #57

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    If BTA can be sold I see a opportunity to unload seals and epic shards.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    I don't see anyone questioning or upset with that...but the current TP trades are done at full value. I put $20 into the game. I trade that $20 worth of game value to you for some stuff. You get $20 in Turbine bucks to spend.

    Using this system, I put $20 of value into the game, I trade that $20 worth of game value to you for some stuff, you get $12 in Turbine bucks to spend. $8...*POOF*
    While the percentage is high, this is common. You can even get the percentage over 100%, in real life. Go to a store, and buy an item worth less than a quarter with a credit card. They'll lose money on the deal. Credit card processors charge a flat rate plus a percentage (just like the AH). Card processors often run in the range of $0.25 + 3%, but your mileage may vary.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    While the percentage is high, this is common. You can even get the percentage over 100%, in real life. Go to a store, and buy an item worth less than a quarter with a credit card. They'll lose money on the deal. Credit card processors charge a flat rate plus a percentage (just like the AH). Card processors often run in the range of $0.25 + 3%, but your mileage may vary.
    Sorry, I don't really see the relevance there.

    I'm thinking of this as any other 'secondary' currency you might buy...let's say, Best Buy Gift Cards. I go and buy a $20 Best Buy Gift Card. At some point, I decide to trade it to a friend for a sandwich. I have a sandwich. My friend has a $20 Best Buy Gift Card. He can go buy $20 worth of stuff.

    In this case, I trade my $20 Gift Card to my friend. I have a sandwich, and somehow Best Buy snuck in and deleted $8 off the Gift Card. My friend has a $12 Best Buy Gift Card now. Would anyone really stand for that? Now, either way, I spent $20 for a sandwich, as a buyer, I really don't care...but the seller gets absolutely mugged.

    Now, if instead, I used some sort of auction service where I could bid my $20 gift card on a sandwich from a stranger, and I was charged some SMALL nominal fee for using that service, I'd be ok with that.

    Charging some nominal fee for the $AH service is acceptable, and practically expected. Just DELETING massive amounts of purchasing power from the game is not.

    Perhaps I need to consider this business relationship in some other way? Maybe in some other service oriented way rather than product oriented? I don't know, I'm stuck on the product oriented view.
    Last edited by rimble; 03-06-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    So The Shroud isn't a raid anymore?

    Greensteel is BtCoE.

    Also, it's pretty obvious where this is going next. The marketing department at Turbine isn't stupid. They know that they have to heat the metaphorical water while the players are in the pot instead of dropping the players straight into boiling water. We won't see BtCoA loot in the Shard Exchange until 2014.

    ...but we will see it.


    Edit: I don't mind that GS blanks could be put on the Shard Exchange, by the way. But according to the description posted in the release notes, full dual shard, cleansed Shroud gear can be posted on the Shard Exchange because that item was BtCoE.
    Once you shard it it is a "new" item, like a cleansed epic item - and is BTCoA.

    You may want to check it first.
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