Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Community Member Thayion516's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Behind You
    Posts
    359

    Default Oh Hirelings: Divine Hires. Clerics and Favored Souls: Selection and Use.

    Just a heads up to any new or newish players out there. I have been TRing my main guy for 3 years now and im on life #7 currently. I use hirelings often thru my builds and have found some of them to be quite good. I primarily play Melee builds as they are the ones who need a hire mostly.

    As i have found, in general, Some hirelings perform MUCH better then others. Some hires are very lazy or their priority code seems to be messed up. But other hirelings work Hard to keep you and the group alive, even performing better then actual players at times.

    Generally speaking, a FVS will have more mana then a Cleric hireling and will have a slightly more aggressive spell selection. One of the Clerics best way to heal groups is with Aura Bursts (with the Radiant Savant Prestige Class), so hireling Clerics do not have this ability so they are by nature weaker at healing. The Favored Souls can heal for more for a longer time due to their larger mana pools when the Cleric Aura Bursts are removed from the table.

    However that is not saying that FVS are defiantly better then Cleric hirelings. There are some very good Cleric hirelings as well.

    Another thing to consider is the Aggressive (Crossed Swords on the hotbar) and Defensive (Sheild on hotbar) commands. The Aggressive command makes the hireling interact with enemies and players more often. They should continuously be looking for a target to interact with in Aggro mode, be it a Cometfall or a Heal. This mode often burns mana faster then the defensive mode due to continuous casting. Toggle this on when ur fast paced and need extra actions to assist the party and mana is not an issue (like there is alot of Shrines, such as Gwaylan's Stand).

    In Defensive mode, a Hire should only act if a party member or its self is interacted with first. And often healing or cureing with be the first thing they will do, followed up with maybe a damage spell. This is the "Sit back and take care of me and the party" mode. Mana will last longer as the hireling is reactive instead of proactive. Use this mode when u want the hire to conserve mana and u need them for the long haul (like Tears of Drakkan).

    PRO TIP: Call your Hireling to you Often! YOU are in control. In the end, they are just Pets. They sometimes get into trouble and stand their ground when they need to run, or get busy doing something else. CALL them and make them run to you so u can protect them or reset their actions. This is the biggest mistake i see anyone doing to their hirelings. Bad players expect them to be 100% effeciant on their own, this is False. A Hireling is merely a controllable Pet, treat is as such.

    I will list the hirelings i use as i level as i have found them very responsive and useful to the group. (Note: Under Level 7, Cure Serious Potions will heals for similar amounts as Divine spell healing.. Buy a stack of healing pots and use them as u run quests in between fights to assist with survivabilty)

    Level 3 = Marduk Whitegrave. Favored Soul. He has alot of mana for his Level and in Aggro mode he uses Command often keep opponents down. Makes killing easy. Responsive on the Healing also.

    LV 5 = Aunidil Tor'val, Favored Soul. A GREAT Agro healer. She is prolly the first "Good" hireling, drops Command and Soundburst often to stun enemies making them easy kills. She can solo Waterworks on her own given enough time. She also is responsive with healing. She is rather overzealous with her mana and burns it quickly if u let her. Switch between Aggro and Defensive to save mana.

    LV 5 = Kendra Estleton, Cleric. A great Healing hireling. She often takes care of my whole party as they rampage thru zones. She has a good spell selection for keeping a party healthy. Keep her in aggro mode, she has limited damage spells so they will not eat into her mana much, but she will continuously take care of the group.

    LV6 = Arias Oreth, Cleric. A good balance of aggro and defenisive from a cleric. Uses soundbust to AE stun and then usually turns to healing as needed. Keep in aggro mode.

    Lv 8 ..... Nimeth Celibel, Favored Soul. ... This hire is one of those Amazing Hirelings. She Soundbursts, Commands, Smites, Heals, Damages, Stays away from the fight (she is a Archer i think), Cures and Lesser Restores. BEWARE tho .. she guzzles mana. Often I keep her on Defensive and turn her to Agrro when i need the extra Kick in a big fight. She also has high stats in Wisdom and Charisma. She can do both runes in Elite Drakkan and runes in Xoriate Cypher. Awesome. I'd take her on a date if i could.

    LV 10. Fayden Maeleth, Cleirc and Ruthok Hourig, FVS. Both of these hires do a good job. Responsive and with good stats. In a turn of events, Fayden is who I will actually use in a Agressive roll with just spamming Call and Flamestrike. Then allowing her to heal after the bad guys are turned to ash. Ruth is a good healer with a large mana pool. Got to watch him tho as he likes to melee (Call will keep him close).

    LV 12 ... Tanya Brightstone, another great Favored Soul. She is like Nimeth's older sister. She uses Smite and Greater Command to immobilize whole groups of baddies as you and your group pound them into the ground. Or use her Blade Barrier to chop down groups as they come at you. Backed up with Heals she brings alot to the table. Again tho, She uses a lot of mana, it has to be managed in long distances with no shrines.

    Lv 14. Beleth Voric, Cleric. A good healing hireling. In Aggro mode she watches over the group well with her Mass healing and Heal. Calling her to you and then Cometfalling is a good tactic also.

    Level 15 Favored Soul.. Larafay Do'rret. Probably the Best Hireling in game. She is a walking death machine that casts 300+ point Heals liberally as she wrecks the battlefeild with Destruction (insta kill spell) and Cometfall. Often out Killing players in my PUGs thru Giant Hold, she is a force to be dealt with. Only issue with Lara is her 2600 mana (1800 base + 4 mana pots) often are not enough to state her bloodlust. Use Shrines often lol! Again, putting her in Defensive will slow her down some... but F that! Kill em all Lara!

    Lv 18. Merenon Lior, FVS. Actually Mer is a good Melee Divine. He has good stats with HPs and AC, which allows him to hold his own in a fight. Casting Mass Heal as needed to keep the party alive. I usually Call him to me alot as in Aggro he will attack any bad guys he sees.

    Lv 19. Caraneth Myar, Favored Soul. Man, whats the deal with these upper teen FVS? They just outclass the clerics! This is another nice responsive aggressive divine that gets the job done. Cara being loaded with Implosion is huge. Put her on Aggro and Spam it for insta-death to most of the baddies within Vale. After she turn all the opposition inside-out, she will go about dropping Heals where needed. Implosion, Firestorm and Efereet Pet make her nice in RR and IQ.

    These are who I use as I've been on my TR train. I have not experimented much with the Epic level hireling, but i hear some are quite good also. I hope to correct that as I cap out both Fury of the Wild and Legendary Dreadnought on my Fighter/Barb this life.

    Hope this helps out any new players or any questions of how to use/select hirelings. Anyone who wants to add any information is more then happy to.
    Last edited by Thayion516; 03-05-2013 at 09:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member bonscott87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    208

    Default

    I love the FVS hirelings too but on my current toon I'm a wizard and I've become addicted to the Clerics that have Divine Vitality. Love them being able to re-fill my blue bar in between shrines.

  3. #3
    Community Member Drelak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    190

    Default

    I have noticed that the Drow clerics (at least Maloren lvl 4 and Arias Oreth lvl 6) have some INT allowing them to use INT runes
    in Recovering the Lost tome (lightning traps and extra chest) and Rescuing Arlos (secret prisoners optional).

  4. #4
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Just a heads up to any new or newish players out there. I have been TRing my main guy for 3 years now and im on life #7 currently. I use hirelings often thru my builds and have found some of them to be quite good. I primarily play Melee builds as they are the ones who need a hire mostly.
    40+ Characters past Lvl 10 1st life, 5 Epic Level Currently, 4 2nd Life TRs {I use Hirelings ALL the time} and I'm sorry but there's so much here I totally disagree with

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    As i have found, in general, Some hirelings perform MUCH better then others. Some hires are very lazy or their priority code seems to be messed up. But other hirelings work Hard to keep you and the group alive, even performing better then actual players at times.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Generally speaking, a FVS will have more mana then a Cleric hireling and will have a slightly more aggressive spell selection. One of the Clerics best way to heal groups is with Aura Bursts (with the Radiant Savant Prestige Class), so hireling Clerics do not have this ability so they are by nature weaker at healing. The Favored Souls can heal for more for a longer time due to their larger mana pools when the Cleric Aura Bursts are removed from the table.

    However that is not saying that FVS are defiantly better then Cleric hirelings. There are some very good Cleric hirelings as well.
    In the main I've found FavSoul hirelings to be nowhere near as good as Clerics - Obviously exceptions exist {Larafay D'Orret being the most blindingly obvious of these

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Another thing to consider is the Aggressive (Crossed Swords on the hotbar) and Defensive (Sheild on hotbar) commands. The Aggressive command makes the hireling interact with enemies and players more often. They should continuously be looking for a target to interact with in Aggro mode, be it a Cometfall or a Heal. This mode often burns mana faster then the defensive mode due to continuous casting. Toggle this on when ur fast paced and need extra actions to assist the party and mana is not an issue (like there is alot of Shrines, such as Gwaylan's Stand).

    In Defensive mode, a Hire should only act if a party member or its self is interacted with first. And often healing or cureing with be the first thing they will do, followed up with maybe a damage spell. This is the "Sit back and take care of me and the party" mode. Mana will last longer as the hireling is reactive instead of proactive. Use this mode when u want the hire to conserve mana and u need them for the long haul (like Tears of Drakkan).

    PRO TIP: Call your Hireling to you Often! YOU are in control. In the end, they are just Pets. They sometimes get into trouble and stand their ground when they need to run, or get busy doing something else. CALL them and make them run to you so u can protect them or reset their actions. This is the biggest mistake i see anyone doing to their hirelings. Bad players expect them to be 100% effeciant on their own, this is False. A Hireling is merely a controllable Pet, treat is as such.
    I've found Defensive mode to be mainly useless - I only ever switch to defensive to lose the regular glitch where hireling becomes inattentive {switching immediately back to aggressive}

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    I will list the hirelings i use as i level as i have found them very responsive and useful to the group. (Note: Under Level 7, Cure Serious Potions will heals for similar amounts as Divine spell healing.. Buy a stack of healing pots and use them as u run quests in between fights to assist with survivabilty)

    Level 3 = Marduk Whitegrave. Favored Soul. He has alot of mana for his Level and in Aggro mode he uses Command often keep opponents down. Makes killing easy. Responsive on the Healing also.
    Lvl 3 = Erythyn Veridyn for me {Nothing against Marduk but Eryhtyn is so good that I've never needed to use anyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    LV 5 = Aunidil Tor'val, Favored Soul. A GREAT Agro healer. She is prolly the first "Good" hireling, drops Command and Soundburst often to stun enemies making them easy kills. She can solo Waterworks on her own given enough time. She also is responsive with healing. She is rather overzealous with her mana and burns it quickly if u let her. Switch between Aggro and Defensive to save mana.
    Aunidil does use up a lot of mana on Soundburst - She can heal too BUT I wouldn't even put her in the same league as.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    LV 5 = Kendra Estleton, Cleric. A great Healing hireling. She often takes care of my whole party as they rampage thru zones. She has a good spell selection for keeping a party healthy. Keep her in aggro mode, she has limited damage spells so they will not eat into her mana much, but she will continuously take care of the group.
    Superb Hireling - One of the best there is - Did get nerfed heavily in Update 8 or 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    LV6 = Arias Oreth, Cleric. A good balance of aggro and defenisive from a cleric. Uses soundbust to AE stun and then usually turns to healing as needed. Keep in aggro mode.
    Much prefer Mareth Lorestryn myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Lv 8 ..... Nimeth Celibel, Favored Soul. ... This hire is one of those Amazing Hirelings. She Soundbursts, Commands, Smites, Heals, Damages, Stays away from the fight (she is a Archer i think), Cures and Lesser Restores. BEWARE tho .. she guzzles mana. Often I keep her on Defensive and turn her to Agrro when i need the extra Kick in a big fight. She also has high stats in Wisdom and Charisma. She can do both runes in Elite Drakkan and runes in Xoriate Cypher. Awesome. I'd take her on a date if i could.
    Goes through mana even faster than Aunidil - Yes I like her too BUT she's frankly the best of a very bad bunch at Lvl 8 {Fergus being one of the worst Divine hirelings in the game}

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    LV 10. Fayden Maeleth, Cleirc and Ruthok Hourig, FVS. Both of these hires do a good job. Responsive and with good stats. In a turn of events, Fayden is who I will actually use in a Agressive roll with just spamming Call and Flamestrike. Then allowing her to heal after the bad guys are turned to ash. Ruth is a good healer with a large mana pool. Got to watch him tho as he likes to melee (Call will keep him close).
    Fayden doesn't cast Flame Strike by herself! You have to cast it from her bar! She is incredibly squishy {Amazingly the Lvl 11 Arkyn is even squishier} and Turn Undead is totally useless on a Hireling.
    All this without mentioning that Flame Strike is a truly terrible spell in DDO!

    As for Ruthok? No Just No! - One of the worst Hirelings I've ever run with!

    Marissa Lorle {Lvl 9 Cleric Hireling with DV} and Samuel Merrick {Lvl 9 Cleric Hireling without DV} are both more than capable of carrying on through Lvl 10 and 11 Content and Superb Hirelings!


    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    LV 12 ... Tanya Brightstone, another great Favored Soul. She is like Nimeth's older sister. She uses Smite and Greater Command to immobilize whole groups of baddies as you and your group pound them into the ground. Or use her Blade Barrier to chop down groups as they come at you. Backed up with Heals she brings alot to the table. Again tho, She uses a lot of mana, it has to be managed in long distances with no shrines.
    Another FavSoul hireling who thinks she's DPS - Yeah she does nice dmg {BUT unlike Larafay doesn't compete with Arcane Hirelings for this}.
    Unfortunately her healing {Unlike Larafay's} leaves a lot to be desired!

    A much better choice for Lvl 12 is Miranda {Cleric with DV} - Surprisingly she also seems to have higher HP and SP than the other Lvl 12 Cleric Hire - Flagon Moren {who's main use is as a Blade Barrier spammer in certain quests - Coyle!}


    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Lv 14. Beleth Voric, Cleric. A good healing hireling. In Aggro mode she watches over the group well with her Mass healing and Heal. Calling her to you and then Cometfalling is a good tactic also.
    You have to be kidding me?
    Who uses Beleth over Tempys?
    Mass Deathward trumps Cometfall any day of the week, Tempys has DV - Beleth doesn't!

    Also the Lvl 13 FavSoul - Duerim Guardwell - Has Mass DW too and is a very good hire in his own right!


    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Level 15 Favored Soul.. Larafay Do'rret. Probably the Best Hireling in game. She is a walking death machine that casts 300+ point Heals liberally as she wrecks the battlefeild with Destruction (insta kill spell) and Cometfall. Often out Killing players in my PUGs thru Giant Hold, she is a force to be dealt with. Only issue with Lara is her 2600 mana (1800 base + 4 mana pots) often are not enough to state her bloodlust. Use Shrines often lol! Again, putting her in Defensive will slow her down some... but F that! Kill em all Lara!
    Please keep this on the down-low - We don't want the devs getting ideas about nerfing Larafay!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Lv 18. Merenon Lior, FVS. Actually Mer is a good Melee Divine. He has good stats with HPs and AC, which allows him to hold his own in a fight. Casting Mass Heal as needed to keep the party alive. I usually Call him to me alot as in Aggro he will attack any bad guys he sees.
    Merenon or Heystack? 40/60 in favour of Heystack in my view

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Lv 19. Caraneth Myar, Favored Soul. Man, whats the deal with these upper teen FVS? They just outclass the clerics! This is another nice responsive aggressive divine that gets the job done. Cara being loaded with Implosion is huge. Put her on Aggro and Spam it for insta-death to most of the baddies within Vale. After she turn all the opposition inside-out, she will go about dropping Heals where needed. Implosion, Firestorm and Efereet Pet make her nice in RR and IQ.
    There was a time when Caraneth was the BEST Hireling in the game!
    Then the Devs nerfed her bad!
    Now there's no way I'd ever take her ahead of Klin Stegen and Hezzy!


    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    These are who I use as I've been on my TR train. I have not experimented much with the Epic level hireling, but i hear some are quite good also. I hope to correct that as I cap out both Fury of the Wild and Legendary Dreadnought on my Fighter/Barb this life.

    Hope this helps out any new players or any questions of how to use/select hirelings. Anyone who wants to add any information is more then happy to.
    Epic FavSoul Hirelings:
    Selis - Awful!
    Luna - Meh!
    Brec - Nice HP BUT Heals so slow it's ridiculous!
    None of the above have Deathward and being FavSouls = No DV either!

    Lvl 20 Hirelings = Wyoh vs Albus
    I can have this argument all day long but I will defend Wyoh to the death!
    She has her foibles and like all hirelings can glitch out at the worst possible times - She's also quite squishy {Augment Summoning makes this a non-issue}.
    BUT she's a heck of a lot faster to heal players than Albus!
    No she doesn't have Deathward BUT DW is no use if you don't get timely heals anyway!

    Plus: Her Implosion actually works well!

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I've found Defensive mode to be mainly useless - I only ever switch to defensive to lose the regular glitch where hireling becomes inattentive {switching immediately back to aggressive}
    I see it as just the opposite. All offensive mode does is cause them to pull agro and get out of posision to be doing what I hire them for, which is to heal. While a slower heal is generally more SP efficient than a fast heal from a hire (they really jump the gun IMO) dieing while they run off to miss things with their mace is worse yet.



    Lvl 20 Hirelings = Wyoh vs Albus
    I can have this argument all day long but I will defend Wyoh to the death!
    She has her foibles and like all hirelings can glitch out at the worst possible times - She's also quite squishy {Augment Summoning makes this a non-issue}.
    BUT she's a heck of a lot faster to heal players than Albus!
    No she doesn't have Deathward BUT DW is no use if you don't get timely heals anyway!

    Plus: Her Implosion actually works well!
    I find the slower heals to be a boon actually. Most hires really over heal. I don't need a 300 point heal spammed on me every time I lose 100 hp's, I need it every time I'm 300 or more hp's down as that makes their SP bar last much longer.

  6. #6
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I see it as just the opposite. All offensive mode does is cause them to pull agro and get out of posision to be doing what I hire them for, which is to heal. While a slower heal is generally more SP efficient than a fast heal from a hire (they really jump the gun IMO) dieing while they run off to miss things with their mace is worse yet.



    I find the slower heals to be a boon actually. Most hires really over heal. I don't need a 300 point heal spammed on me every time I lose 100 hp's, I need it every time I'm 300 or more hp's down as that makes their SP bar last much longer.
    When I'm 300hp down then I need a Quick heal!

    I do NOT need Albus to start casting Heal Mass because by the time he's done I'm dead!
    And that's without the issue the devs gave us when they played around with the hirelings Heal AI! - Basically that these days if you hit the Heal Me Now button on their bar when they're already in the process of casting any spell you not only don't get healed BUT they also lose the spell they were currently casting {which of course could have beent he very heal you were after BUT you'll never know this either}.

    I've also found that Hires don't really over-heal at all {unless you're running with Multiple Hires when just like Real Player Divines they tend to both hit you at the same time!}.
    In fact I've found that quite a lot of the hires have an incredibly bad HP threshold to start healing you at!
    Many times I've been on 50% or even 40% of my total HP and still had to take more dmg before the hireling decided "Hey maybe I should heal my boss now"
    Many times I've been on 10% or less HP and The hireling has looked at me and gone "Nah you don't need healing yet".

    I also have a pet peeve against Hirelings hitting Unconscious Players with a Cure Light/Poss Un-Metaed Moderate Before hitting Heal!
    Most of the time this simply means player wakes up and instantly gets hit for 30-50 dmg by the closest mob = Dead Player and Hireling who's in the middle of Mass Heal has to be told to res instead!

    Mass Heal {with Hirelings not getting quicken} is a severely bad spell to be Self-cast! - Those Hirelings SHOULD be told to cast Single Target Heal as their go-to spell and have Mass Heal/Mass Cure Crit on their Bars for the player to decide when to use!


    Another thing I don't get {apart from the obvious one of Why the Devs decided EVERY Single Cleric Hireling should have the Exact same Mace with Random Elemental/Force dmg on it - Lvl Relevant} is....
    Why the Devs decided what the Cleric Hirelings needed was Better Melee abilities?
    Yes it is nice that they can do some dmg with their melee weapons now BUT the Devs SHOULD have gone through the Hirelings ONE BY ONE!
    And made them Truly Unique rather than Homogenizing them!

    Fayden Maeleth is a Cleric of the Undying Court {this is heavily mentioned on her description!} - She should be using a Scimitar!
    She Should have been downgraded to Lvl 8! Where the Undying Court Clickie {Raise Dead} would have Been a Huge Bonus!

    On the other hand - Fergus was {just like Fayden actually} before the Update using a Club!
    Giving him the Mace was a GOOD thing!
    He's still a terribad healer hire of course - Even having Restoration doesn't change this {though if you only want the Restoration he's pretty much the only choice at that low a lvl!}.

    The Devs could have pushed Fergus up to Lvl 10 and given him Radiant Servant 1 Prestige {self-cast} to replace Fayden!

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    When I'm 300hp down then I need a Quick heal!

    I do NOT need Albus to start casting Heal Mass because by the time he's done I'm dead!
    And that's without the issue the devs gave us when they played around with the hirelings Heal AI! - Basically that these days if you hit the Heal Me Now button on their bar when they're already in the process of casting any spell you not only don't get healed BUT they also lose the spell they were currently casting {which of course could have beent he very heal you were after BUT you'll never know this either}.

    I've also found that Hires don't really over-heal at all {unless you're running with Multiple Hires when just like Real Player Divines they tend to both hit you at the same time!}.
    In fact I've found that quite a lot of the hires have an incredibly bad HP threshold to start healing you at!
    Many times I've been on 50% or even 40% of my total HP and still had to take more dmg before the hireling decided "Hey maybe I should heal my boss now"
    Many times I've been on 10% or less HP and The hireling has looked at me and gone "Nah you don't need healing yet".

    I also have a pet peeve against Hirelings hitting Unconscious Players with a Cure Light/Poss Un-Metaed Moderate Before hitting Heal!
    Most of the time this simply means player wakes up and instantly gets hit for 30-50 dmg by the closest mob = Dead Player and Hireling who's in the middle of Mass Heal has to be told to res instead!

    Mass Heal {with Hirelings not getting quicken} is a severely bad spell to be Self-cast! - Those Hirelings SHOULD be told to cast Single Target Heal as their go-to spell and have Mass Heal/Mass Cure Crit on their Bars for the player to decide when to use!


    Another thing I don't get {apart from the obvious one of Why the Devs decided EVERY Single Cleric Hireling should have the Exact same Mace with Random Elemental/Force dmg on it - Lvl Relevant} is....
    Why the Devs decided what the Cleric Hirelings needed was Better Melee abilities?
    Yes it is nice that they can do some dmg with their melee weapons now BUT the Devs SHOULD have gone through the Hirelings ONE BY ONE!
    And made them Truly Unique rather than Homogenizing them!

    Fayden Maeleth is a Cleric of the Undying Court {this is heavily mentioned on her description!} - She should be using a Scimitar!
    She Should have been downgraded to Lvl 8! Where the Undying Court Clickie {Raise Dead} would have Been a Huge Bonus!

    On the other hand - Fergus was {just like Fayden actually} before the Update using a Club!
    Giving him the Mace was a GOOD thing!
    He's still a terribad healer hire of course - Even having Restoration doesn't change this {though if you only want the Restoration he's pretty much the only choice at that low a lvl!}.

    The Devs could have pushed Fergus up to Lvl 10 and given him Radiant Servant 1 Prestige {self-cast} to replace Fayden!
    Heh, at level 20 when I'm down 300 hp's I'm starting to think about needing a heal. That said, Al generally defaults to heal rather than mass when defensive and is more on the ball with the heals in that mode, he simply isn't distracted with finding things to fight. He also tends to stay in awareness range better so I don't have to move closer as often to be noticed.

    Self cast mass heal is a bad idea I agree. But that's more a factor of how the code works it seems to me. The code for all hires seems to tie the "on command" heals in as primary or secondary heals for all hires. Self cast mass's seems to come up when their primary heal is on cool down. This is bad when their mass is mass heal as it takes to long to cast so waiting out the cool down would be better. Expecting custom AI, beyond tweaked settings, for every hire is just unreasonable.

    The rest is just nit-picking and unreasonable expectations for a $10-15/month game with a F2P option. They all have the same weapon to keep coding costs down. The same for not having PrE or faith based options available. Hirelings are supposed to fill in when actual player can't be found, or in the case of healbots do a job very few players really want to. They are not supposed to be even close to the equal of a real player.

  8. #8
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Heh, at level 20 when I'm down 300 hp's I'm starting to think about needing a heal. That said, Al generally defaults to heal rather than mass when defensive and is more on the ball with the heals in that mode, he simply isn't distracted with finding things to fight. He also tends to stay in awareness range better so I don't have to move closer as often to be noticed.

    Self cast mass heal is a bad idea I agree. But that's more a factor of how the code works it seems to me. The code for all hires seems to tie the "on command" heals in as primary or secondary heals for all hires. Self cast mass's seems to come up when their primary heal is on cool down. This is bad when their mass is mass heal as it takes to long to cast so waiting out the cool down would be better. Expecting custom AI, beyond tweaked settings, for every hire is just unreasonable.

    The rest is just nit-picking and unreasonable expectations for a $10-15/month game with a F2P option. They all have the same weapon to keep coding costs down. The same for not having PrE or faith based options available. Hirelings are supposed to fill in when actual player can't be found, or in the case of healbots do a job very few players really want to. They are not supposed to be even close to the equal of a real player.
    At Lvl 20 {Pre MotU} None of my characters who hit cap had 500 HP {In fact - http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/keltenn/ had 472 when I TRd him!}
    Post MotU and with work getting gear I've managed to push my Battle Cleric {Human}, My Rogue {Drow} and My Shinto {Elf} up into the Mid 400s at Lvl 20-22
    My Barb/Ftr/Ranger - Urik - Has 603 None Raged! {He's probably the only one of my characters who wouldn't need an IMMEDIATE Heal at 300 points down!}.


    And sorry but no - I don't believe my expectations for Hirelings to be unrealistic in the slightest!

    Those Hirelings all had very different weapons before the change!
    The Devs decided to go for the cheap option and put in a package that basically homogenized the Cleric Hirelings!

    Really - How hard would it be for one dev to log onto a Hireling and take it to Kruz for a Respec {He/She could do one hireling per week even!}.
    Then respec Hire {Levelling up or down to fit in better with that hireling's abilities} and Gear up Hire with useful gear for it's level.

    And let's take Fayden as an Example:

    Lvl 10 Cleric Hireling - Elf Follower of the Undying Court!

    Respec her to Lvl 8!
    Put Undying Call on her bar!
    Other 3 Bar Abilities can be: Cure Critical, FoM, Aid Mass.
    Self Cast - Cure Moderate, Searing Light
    Feats: Emp. Healing {always on}, Toughness, Mental Toughness.
    Gear her up with:
    Helm - Sacred Helm {Red Fens}
    Necklace - Marguerite's Necklace {Catacombs - False Life}
    Trinket - Lesser Cunning Trinket {Crystal Cove}
    Cloak - Charisma 4
    Belt - Con 4
    Rings - Sacred Ring, Ring of the Mire {Red Fens}
    Gloves - Dex 4
    Boots - Boots of the Mire {Red Fens}
    Bracers - Str 4
    Armour - Moderate Fort
    Shield - Devotion {Lvl appropriate}
    Weapon - +2 Holy Scimitar of Pure Good

    And she still wouldn't be anywhere near as good as a Real Player! {UI being what it is!}.

    Give all Hirelings permanent Ship Buffs as from a Lvl 70 Ship and they STILL WON'T be the equivalent of a Real Player!

    Now for Fergus:

    Lvl 8 Halfling Cleric Hireling {Currently Useless}!

    Respec him to Lvl 10 {Swap with Fayden}
    Bar abilities: Raise Dead, Cure Critical, Deathward, Restoration
    Self Cast: Radiant Burst, Searing Light
    Feats: Emp. Heal {always on}, Toughness, Mental Toughness, Quicken {always on}.
    Gear Him up with:
    Helm - Nightforge Darkhelm {Wis 4, Will Save 5 - This item now has a Yellow Slot I believe - Put Fear Immunity in it. - If slot is Blue Put False Life in}.
    Necklace - Nightforge Gorget - Slot with Resist Acid.
    Trinket - Pearl of Power X
    Cloak - Phiarlan Mirror Cloak
    Belt - Con 5
    Rings - Charisma 5, Devotion Ring {Lvl Appropriate}
    Gloves - Charged Gauntlets
    Boots - Firestorm Greaves
    Bracers - Greater Parrying.
    Armour - Gleaming Adamantine Plate
    Shield - Phiarlan Shield {Angular with Appearance Kit added}.
    Weapons - Noxious Fang, Shrieking Star {make sure he knows to swap when needed - Mobs can do it}.

    And he still won't be anywhere near as good as a Real Player!

    Heck - Give him a +2 Supreme Tome too - He still won't equal a Real Player's contribution!
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 03-10-2013 at 12:32 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,193

    Default

    Also - No mention of...

    Lvl 1 - Riana Montague {Rogue} - Simply Superb!

    Lvl 4 - Lairon Hester {Bard}, Aidren Rumrunner {Wizard} - Both very good hires - Lairon is in my view a better healer than either Maloren {Worst Cleric Hire in the game} or Burak {FvS}
    Plus - Kurik Forgewarden {One of the few Melee hirelings worth anything}.

    Lvl 7 - The best Healing FvS hire in the game - Zaghar Everstar!

    Lvl 8 - Flare {WF Sorc - Fantastic WF Healer and Great Arcane hireling for all}

    Lvl 10 - Anvil {WF Fighter}

    Lvl 11 - Roshan {another good FvS hire}

    Lvl 13 - Fira Greylocke {Rogue}, Barrage {Wizard with Haste, GH, Firewall and Reconstruct - What more can you ask for?}

    Lvl 14 - Sigil {Another Fantastic WF Healer and Arcane hire for all}

    Lvl 16 - Isadora Ironclaw & Natasha Thorsten {Both Superb}

    Lvl 18 - Lalisa Forestwing {Wizard with GH}
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 03-06-2013 at 02:27 AM.

  10. #10
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    22,890

    Thumbs up

    Thumbs up for trying to do something to help people sorry no rep left today.

    Me I hate hirelings their stupid and die to much but I play solo/team builds a lot. But I can see this helping people that like or want a hireling, keep up the good work.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  11. #11
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,193

    Default

    BTW

    2 Hirelings that are currently broken...

    Zeran Hamsterherder {Lvl 5 Wizard} - I'd LOVE his Spell Selection at Lvl 5!
    Don't go by JUST what's on his bar - Try him out and see what I mean!

    Kelorn Gossinar {Lvl 5 Rogue Mech} - Hey Devs, How do you get Rogue Mech prestige at Lvl 5?

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    128

    Default

    A few items for your consideration. Not sure how detailed you want to get with this...

    - Flagon Moren; level 12 Cleric has Blade barrier if you plan on grouping up mobs before taking them out. Handy for taking out large groups of trash mobs.

    - Hires will usually run to you when you call them. Jumping off of high structures, tops of stairs\crates, over chasms or pools of water while calling them to you will usually proc an immediate teleport to you, helping them avoid bypassed traps\monsters and lava.

    - (didn't see it but it's probably the most important imo) PARK your hire (the "split" icon) before running through a trap (assuming it cant be disabled) or before a big fight if you want to keep him\her out of the action for heals\rezzes. Depending on their stance they may run to engage enemies or heal the party even while parked. This is also handy to keep them out of your way while you're working on a puzzle.

    - Guarding: Hires can be assigned to "guard" a party member, NPC or other hire. Especially useful when having to defend a squishy NPC. NPC can only be "guarded" after they enter combat mode (testing might be needed to confirm this)

    - They're buggy: If your hire isn't automatically healing\engaging targets or taking orders (etc), switch stances and\or call them to you. I noticed they get stuck sometimes and need to be "rebooted".

    - Hires cannot drown but will take damage from traps and lava! Some will get stuck in lava pits in various areas so parking them or "hand holding" (take a few steps and call them until you're through the area) may be necessary.

    - Hires can work levers, doors and stat runes. If you don't have the required stat on a PC, let your hire have a go at it. It seems that some of the cleric hires have an extraordinarily high INT score (for some reason) so there may be other odd, unknown, high stats on other hires as well.

    - A hireling's timer will start once they are summoned the first time and run while in quests and wilderness areas. The timer pauses when in a "public instance". Left over time will tick down during the next entry to a quest\area even if you summon a different hire or no hire at all. Placing them in the bank will preserve them while running other quests. Hires don't leave an instance when their time expires but their contract will disappear so as long as you have enough time to summon them they will stay through the whole quest. Anecdotal: It seems that hires are more prone to "lazing" or going inactive the further over the timer you are.

    - Sometimes a hireling a level or two below your level will be more appropriate than the hire the same level as you. Also dont over look hires with Divine Vitality even if you don't have a blue bar. Some will have good buffs (as was mentioned, Deathward Mass is a nice buff to have in many cases)

    - It's usually a best practice to ask the group\group leader if they don't mind before you summon a hireling. Most groups probably wont mind as long as you keep it on a leash but some purists might want to run with only human "AI". "Shortmanning" a quest without a hire can be a fun challenge.

    - Don't get too spoiled: Hires are a great way to tool around by yourself and in short man groups but many real LIVE divines (or even other casting classes) wont appreciate being treated like dedicated "keep-you-aliver"s or full time buffers. So a good practice would be to "role-play" that your hire is a real player, watch their mana bars to verify that you're not draining them (unless you're spamming damage spells), don't leave them behind to get beat on by a group of monsters or let them keep aggro for very long (probably a good idea all together) and keep the name calling at a minimum . This way you aren't reenforcing bad behavior (that will get you squelched) when you solo.
    Last edited by st0rmcr0vv; 03-06-2013 at 10:29 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by st0rmcr0vv View Post
    - A hireling's timer will start once they are summoned the first time and run while in quests and wilderness areas. The timer pauses when in a "public instance". Left over time will tick down during the next entry to a quest\area even if you summon a different hire or no hire at all. Placing them in the bank will preserve them while running other quests. Hires don't leave an instance when their time expires but their contract will disappear so as long as you have enough time to summon them they will stay through the whole quest. Anecdotal: It seems that hires are more prone to "lazing" or going inactive the further over the timer you are.
    One addition - Character Bank ONLY!
    Unfortunately the Shared Bank doesn't work properly - When you take the contract out of the bank it will instantly disappear if it was on timer!
    Enough times to be a real issue {even if Not every single time}!

    Quote Originally Posted by st0rmcr0vv View Post
    - Sometimes a hireling a level or two below your level will be more appropriate than the hire the same level as you. Also dont over look hires with Divine Vitality even if you don't have a blue bar. Some will have good buffs (as was mentioned, Deathward Mass is a nice buff to have in many cases)
    Fantastic advice!
    As I posted above - Marissa and Samuel {Lvl 9} are far superior Healer Hirelings to Fayden or Ruthok {Lvl 10} OR even to Arkyn {Lvl 11}!
    Tempys Lorben {Lvl 14} is massively superior to Jatrina Sartosa {Lvl 15}!
    Natasha Thorsten {Lvl 16} is much much better than Ayron Staliya {Lvl 17}!
    All Epic FavSouls {21-23 at least} are Way Worse than Wyoh {Lvl 20} or Klin {Lvl 19}!

    Rogue Hirelings - Those specced as Rogue Mechs are vastly superior trappers to those specced as Acrobats or Assassins!
    It's quite easy to tell from their descriptions most of the time {And many of them have a Prestige ability on their bar too}.

    Quote Originally Posted by st0rmcr0vv View Post
    - It's usually a best practice to ask the group\group leader if they don't mind before you summon a hireling. Most groups probably wont mind as long as you keep it on a leash but some purists might want to run with only human "AI". "Shortmanning" a quest without a hire can be a fun challenge.
    When I join a Group that either looks like it's going to be Shortman or Already IP I type -
    "Mind if I pull {Link Hireling}?"
    I do this EVEN WHEN the leader has a hireling out!
    It's only polite to ask {and sometimes the leader may be using the same hireling as you too}.


    Quote Originally Posted by st0rmcr0vv View Post
    - Don't get too spoiled: Hires are a great way to tool around by yourself and in short man groups but many real LIVE divines (or even other casting classes) wont appreciate being treated like dedicated "keep-you-aliver"s or full time buffers. So a good practice would be to "role-play" that your hire is a real player, watch their mana bars to verify that you're not draining them (unless you're spamming damage spells), don't leave them behind to get beat on by a group of monsters or let them keep aggro for very long (probably a good idea all together) and keep the name calling at a minimum . This way you aren't reenforcing bad behavior (that will get you squelched) when you solo.
    Love it!
    Hirelings are People too!
    Keep them Happy {and Never make fun of Flower's Name!}!

  14. #14
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,422

    Default

    Ok, learning here so keep it civil

    Why are you grabbing a DW hireling (read below for my misunderstanding)?

    I am trying to think of those level ranges and why you need DW when DB works just as good. I know DW blocks negative levels but the only NPC's that both kill you and cast negative levels are Beholders and DW is not effective vs. them. The only chain that I can think of that spams Negative levels (which makes DW better) is the Coin Lord Plaza chain. My other thought would be Sands pack, but I see less and less people doing them, saving them for ED farming. Alas, making DW at this level range less valuable (I.E. It's there if you happen to run Sands/Plaza, but the spell is useless more often than not). Necro II/III is in this level range but casters tend to spam DPS spells, not negative level spells. And BB/AoE is so juice against tons of NPC's trying to surround you.

  15. #15
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Ok, learning here so keep it civil

    Why are you grabbing a DW hireling (read below for my misunderstanding)?

    I am trying to think of those level ranges and why you need DW when DB works just as good. I know DW blocks negative levels but the only NPC's that both kill you and cast negative levels are Beholders and DW is not effective vs. them. The only chain that I can think of that spams Negative levels (which makes DW better) is the Coin Lord Plaza chain. My other thought would be Sands pack, but I see less and less people doing them, saving them for ED farming. Alas, making DW at this level range less valuable (I.E. It's there if you happen to run Sands/Plaza, but the spell is useless more often than not). Necro II/III is in this level range but casters tend to spam DPS spells, not negative level spells. And BB/AoE is so juice against tons of NPC's trying to surround you.
    Negative Level spamming is getting more and more ubiquitous in game!

    Wraiths, Wights, Spectres, Vampires have always Negged us!

    Beholders neg us too BUT as you say DW is useless vs these!

    Nowadays - Every d@rn caster above Lvl 8 {Elites} seems to have Enervation available {At later Levels they get Energy Drain!}!

    Deathward is an absolute must have in Elite at Level quests by Level 14 - The first DW Hireling is Duerim Guardwell {Lvl 13 FS} and I'd definitely love to see The Level 12/13 Clerics get this spell too!

    The only other way to get DW other than having a Divine in party is to farm Tangleroot for the Visor of the Flesh Render Guards! {a once per rest 5 minute clickie!}!

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Death_Ward

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Death_Ward,_Mass
    BTW according to this second Link - Neither Duerim nor Tempys should have the Mass version of this spell {they do} so clearly they're scroll casting it on us!

  16. #16
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    4,710

    Default

    I do not understand how Althea (16 FvS) and Albus (20 FvS) get so little love. They are the only ones I ever use, and they do their job. Every hireling that uses Mass Heal (including Albus) necessarily has a critical weakness because they do not understand the concept of Quicken, but he is still far, far superior to Wyoh's 200 some odd HP.
    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Ok, learning here so keep it civil

    Why are you grabbing a DW hireling (read below for my misunderstanding)?

    I am trying to think of those level ranges and why you need DW when DB works just as good. I know DW blocks negative levels but the only NPC's that both kill you and cast negative levels are Beholders and DW is not effective vs. them. The only chain that I can think of that spams Negative levels (which makes DW better) is the Coin Lord Plaza chain. My other thought would be Sands pack, but I see less and less people doing them, saving them for ED farming. Alas, making DW at this level range less valuable (I.E. It's there if you happen to run Sands/Plaza, but the spell is useless more often than not). Necro II/III is in this level range but casters tend to spam DPS spells, not negative level spells. And BB/AoE is so juice against tons of NPC's trying to surround you.
    Not only level drain but negative damage (e.g. Harm and Necrotic Ray) and stat drain (e.g. Necro Shadows that no-save kill you if they drain your Strength far enough). Death Ward is a critical part of soloing. Relying on Tangleroot's Visors is, to put it bluntly, a relic of the level cap 10 days. 7 minutes doesn't cut it, and caster level 7 doesn't cut it vs. Dispel.

    .

    To be honest I do not understand the concept of bringing a divine hireling for offense (Blade Barrier, Destruction, et al). What characters are you (general) running that struggle with both offense and self-healing?

  17. #17
    Community Member Nickademus42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Khyber
    Posts
    333

    Default

    While I'm not a fan of healer hirelings that do dps, I believe a lot of the hirelings mentioned as beneficial spam CC (command, cometfall, holy smite, etc.). This is helpful on a melee as it contributes to damage mitigation. And it's nice to have a hireling doing something other than standing in back, dying, or playing patty cake in a trap.

    At later levels, the dps and instakills help with removing the trash so the player can focus on the actual dangerous mobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    He can, he just thinks Elminster is a tool.

  18. #18
    Community Member Thayion516's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Behind You
    Posts
    359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    To be honest I do not understand the concept of bringing a divine hireling for offense (Blade Barrier, Destruction, et al). What characters are you (general) running that struggle with both offense and self-healing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickademus42 View Post
    While I'm not a fan of healer hirelings that do dps, I believe a lot of the hirelings mentioned as beneficial spam CC (command, cometfall, holy smite, etc.). This is helpful on a melee as it contributes to damage mitigation. And it's nice to have a hireling doing something other than standing in back, dying, or playing patty cake in a trap.

    At later levels, the dps and instakills help with removing the trash so the player can focus on the actual dangerous mobs.
    Pretty much This. ^^

    Iv never had a damage output problem as far as I know. Iv been soloing elites for quite a while now. I prefer my Hire to assist me with the kill. When we run GH and Larafay walks out with 20-40 kills. Thats 20-40 mobs faster then what I would have done without the help. When Greater command hits 3 mobs and i get the +50% damage boost and start critting stuff for 300+ in Vale... thank you Hireling. Faster Kills = More XP = Less Healing Required. If a Hireling is standing there doing nothing as I take on 3-5 bad guys, waiting for me to get to 75% health, it's lazy IMO.

  19. #19
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    4,710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    Pretty much This. ^^

    Iv never had a damage output problem as far as I know. Iv been soloing elites for quite a while now. I prefer my Hire to assist me with the kill. When we run GH and Larafay walks out with 20-40 kills. Thats 20-40 mobs faster then what I would have done without the help.
    But dungeon scaling makes the rest of the kills that much harder for you to achieve. It's not a no-loss situation.
    When Greater command hits 3 mobs and i get the +50% damage boost and start critting stuff for 300+ in Vale... thank you Hireling.
    I am reasonably sure Greater Command does not grant the Helpless buff, because the only Prone that offers it specifically states it does.
    If a Hireling is standing there doing nothing as I take on 3-5 bad guys, waiting for me to get to 75% health, it's lazy IMO.
    That's all well and good, but if you need the healing you need your hire to have SP, and going offensive will drain that SP very quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford
    And as you mention in your first paragraph - If the player has less than 400 hp then the player is toast!

    So for newbies I will DEFINITELY continue Championing Wyoh!
    I think you have to go out of your way to make a level 20+ character that requires healing with less than 400 HP, new player or no.

  20. #20
    Community Member Thayion516's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Behind You
    Posts
    359

    Default

    All of this Theory Crafting is well and good, but it is not really applicable or helpful to new players in game. A new player needs a guide on what IS , not what could be.

    One of the best things for new players I would suggest is use the Call button and swap between Aggro/Defensive often to reset actions and keep your hire safe. Treat it like a Pet with a simple AI.

    Want to know what a hire will do in battle? Take it to a Explorer Zone a little under your level and pull 3 or 4 bad guys ... Put it on different modes and just watch it. If it stand there and gets beat down, Its Lazy, don't use it. If it starts doing actions and attempts to take care of things, its ok and its AI is working.

    And BTW Fran.. Turbine can not even make a maintanance patch without breaking the game for 4 days or a update that is not 10% bugged. I dont really want them messing with anything they dont really have too. They are too busy trying to fix the last years worth of mistakes lol!
    Last edited by Thayion516; 03-10-2013 at 08:07 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload