You see just about as many people would want to shadow farm etc as view EE as the only game to play. Meaning trivial numbers of players per server who think highly of themselves when in fact they are the biggest laughingstock of our game population.
People in general are not XP/Per min players. they play for fun, to explore dungeons and do so using new and different builds each time around. This is what gives a game replayability and increases its ability to hold alot of MMO gamers a longer time. The hard core grind out lvls asap style you try to use as your foundation in view and arguments literally doesnt even exist during these discussions you keep jumping into. For the purpose of divine players who play to have fun, rather then as a 2nd job, what your trying to talk about is as relevent as talking raid strategies for WoW.
What you also fail to grasp is no barbarian outside of the infamous forum poster Shade and his legendary full on ****** dps barb build actually lives up to that top dps capability that one has to reach to actually be heard when talking about it. Sure many imitate his builds, try to follow his guides, but they are not him and wont ever be close. You might want to think your in the same league as him but you wont ever even be within smart bomb tactical strike distance of him let alone close enough to spit on him or hold his cape while he shows you what a real barby dps build is all about.
But the real reason he gets any actual agreement, has any one even anti ****** dps builld players like myself give him any respect is he is a number cruncher who has proven dps out put potential and done so not entirely biased towards his own play style.
He himself if i recall right not long after the release of EDs and he himself making several fully ED capped characters, put together some charts, and showed hands down that under his beloved ****** DPS build, the top tier DPS slot went to arcane archers of any class mix that included many shot, 10k stars, IPS and had a max attack bonus along with high wisdom. Nor is it a surprise that with all that listed, a divine warrior build including the ever increasingly popular clonkcher splits pull that off.
Nor has anyone pro BYOH/Self sufficient divine warriors who look first to thier own needs been saying well we dont NEVER heal others, but any time you expect a actually living thinking human to have more fun in an action game thats only strong feature and real advantage in the MMO genre is the fast play action, is asking us to have LESS fun.
However it has been said, spelled out, and of used as a major point in the side who demands nanny bots, that there should be nothing wrong with players of barbie dolls and fighters who want to just log on and whack stuff with no thought to the consequences to expect a cleric to just join and do their job of sitting back shutting up and healing. You know like a good little hireling.
Nor do those ****** DPS builds get that Shade when on his, is so far above everyone else who tries to be like him in play ability its just ridiculous. You try to compare running in and swinging mindlessly to a player who is so well known when it comes to his twitch skills and situational awareness, that using anything but a multi tasked build is a waste honestly, that for him taking incoming DPS is far less then the many wannabes are capable of. That for the icon they try to live up to is just too good at what he does. Its like a legion of drizzit fanbois thinking if they make a drow ranger two scimitar wielder they will be as amazing as the character is in the novels.
meanwhile the AA DPS build simply requires using a good bow, self made arrows, and shooting at an enemy when his MS/10k are off cooldown, and for divine versions gives nice moments to take some time to toss a few heals if needed. I rather enjoy that kind of mix of support and DPS play myself because healing is not what its about, nor what it does most of the time, thus is an enjoyable thing to do in an ACTIOn game.
Remember our premise is if we are not actually doing combat we are not doing anything fun, thus being told, demanded or expected to spend more then 10% of any play session doing other then fighting no matter what class we are on, is unfun and makes there no poiint in even logging on.
Without hard numbers these things are facts.
1: In DDO year one, it was incredibly common on every server for groups lead by and comprised largely of ****** dps glass cannon melee builds to wait for a half hour or more to get the NEEDed divine to join and play nanny.
2: It was more common for Divines to group together, knowing that with two of them and DVs they could go longer and do more healing and buffing for themselves while having fun swinging weapons.
3: Dps during this time still came more from wepaons then anything else, a cleric with a rare wounding weapon could and would outkill the best THF barb time and again( hence all the whiny ***** ass ****** dps QQ to get stat dmg nerfed)
4: A hybrid character evena warrior with lvls of pal and rogue complimenting for higher saves and evasion when combined with any kind of fighting style made for a better more survivable warrior that divines where far more happy to work with and offer a friendly heal to in dire moments.
5: Groups overly depending on clerics where common, clerics going anon and sticking to static and guild groups also became more and more common. Until due to that along with other factors, forced turbine to recognize the need for scaling and dif settings directed more towards casual play and groups lacking perfect make up.
What alot dont get is that elite dif, and EE by their very nature where never actually even content meant for meat head builds focussed on DPS and HP as their only to relevent numbers. Not even with blue bars. Sure skilled players can with experience and foreknowledge over come any static stagnant challenge with enough prep work, but even in year one, it was never groups or even lone clerics who found the game very hard, just those who refused to heal themselves and carry tools to recover.
It is only further proven who is the burden on whom, when a lone solo cleric will often build up coin fast in the 1-10 game, while the ones who actually try to play healer will often be expected to use consumable when mana runs out, costs in plat along with it. and hence the common term the poor cleric, found and described in the Path To Enlightenment.
The reason I and many choose to make self recovering warriors is often about keeping our own personal resource costs to a minimun, id rather run out of blue then use a single cure pot, when that blue is going to myself. It really is that simple. I and many build for that blue to replace our own personal need for a bag full of pots etc, not to stack with them to use on others.
In the end with the exception of a very few players, most full ****** dps builds will be played so poorly, and used so poorly, that even a half competent player on a decently built AA spike build will do better while bringing other useful things to the group and not being a burden of a mana sponge.
No amount of DPs brought makes up for being a mana sponge, nor turning anothers play session into the dull chore of support medic. Its really that simple.