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  1. #1

    Smile DDOGamer: Iconic Heroes

    Iconic Heroes are coming to DDO.

    But what does it really mean?

  2. #2
    Community Member RedDragonScale's Avatar
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    :sigh:

  3. #3
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    Default dont make it too simple!

    Dear,

    when the devs (or designers) transform DDO to a arcade simplified game there will be no more motivation for this game. The complexity of the character builds is the only unique selling point in DDO.

    Regards Bo.
    EU player since release, US player since winter 2009.

  4. #4
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Kill it, burn it with fire.

  5. #5
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    D&D Iconic Heroes
    --------------------

    Dwarf - Flint Fireforge, Bruenor Battlehammer - Fighters

    Halfling / Kender - Tasshelhoff Burrfoot, Regis - Thieves {Oh is this yours? It was lying around so I just picked it up for safekeeping}.

    Human - Gord the Rogue, Neeva, Cadderley & Danica, Wulfgar, Elminster, Mordenkainen, Raistlin & Caramon Majere, Tika Waylan-Majere,

    Elf - Actually can't think of any! {a few tertiary characters but NO Iconic Heroes!}

    Warforged - Uh?

    H-Orc - Uh?

    H-Elf - Tanis Half-Elven! Ranger - Come on - How could you NOT think of an Iconic H-Elf!

    Drow - We all know this one!
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 03-04-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  6. #6

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    I think inclusion of Iconic Heroes is a good idea. This game has a huge barrier to entry for the uninitiated. When I started my last P&P experience was with AD&D 2.x rules, which probably did more harm than good, and certainly could have used a leg up just to help familiarize me with the game. I was quite frustrated and almost stopped playing altogether as my character died constantly and I had no idea what was going on most of the time. Had the option of starting with a character more prone to survive an encounter been available, I would have taken it.

    We long-time players of both this game and its P&P namesake seem to forget just how massive a learning curve we had to overcome before any true understanding was attained. The Iconic Heroes option might bring new players to the game and give them the opportunity to experience something other than crushing defeat time and time again. That can't be a bad thing.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  7. #7

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    Ahhhhhhh

    I envisioned this differently when I skimmed the original birthday letter in 2 seconds (damn you Evelyn Wood!)

    So i thought it was some sort of new TR system where you reincarnate to level 15 instead.

    I was down with that.

    But this?

    If I get this right, players jump right into level 15 content with a pre-set character and pre-set gear?

    But wait...

    Don't all of the preset paths pretty much fail?

    Isn't the gear you are given when you Vet status or stone yourself pretty much not going to cut it?

    So....

    To make the game more accessible you are going to put new players in an even worse position?

    And they are in a worse position.

    Korthos or Forgotten Realms, it's all new to them. On Korthos you have a fighting chance. Sure there are lots of Twink Bots but there are lots of new folks too.

    When I was new all I cared about was being successful and having fun.

    New shinies for starting players would do WAY MORE for making people stick around then teleporting Mr. Day One straight to level 15 to face giants and devils.

    I can't wait for the new player to start up at level 15 and see a LFM for "Outbreak ELITE lv 15-19" and click Join. Good times.

    This is madness.

    just give players some decent gear and a little stack of cure pots or something.

    Put a little mini F2P challenge on Korthos or an event style race with some cool rewards.

    You want new players to see what the game has in store for them but throwing new players in the mix at level 15 to face to wrath of a rude PuGer is not the way to go.

    And I suspect, if this is what I think it is, that some people will target the "pre-set'ers" with words or boots.

    If they are mostly preset paths with preset gear they will stand out like sore thumbs won't they?

    But I think waiting for the clarity of an actual press release before judgement is in order.
    .
    Last edited by phillymiket; 03-04-2013 at 08:37 AM.
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    I think inclusion of Iconic Heroes is a good idea. This game has a huge barrier to entry for the uninitiated. When I started my last P&P experience was with AD&D 2.x rules, which probably did more harm than good, and certainly could have used a leg up just to help familiarize me with the game. I was quite frustrated and almost stopped playing altogether as my character died constantly and I had no idea what was going on most of the time. Had the option of starting with a character more prone to survive an encounter been available, I would have taken it.

    We long-time players of both this game and its P&P namesake seem to forget just how massive a learning curve we had to overcome before any true understanding was attained. The Iconic Heroes option might bring new players to the game and give them the opportunity to experience something other than crushing defeat time and time again. That can't be a bad thing.
    This . . . the pre-set chracter paths are SO BAD . . . first time players need all the help they can get.

    I like the complex options we have for character creation but that has the negative effects of making it too easy to build a gimp. They stated they are leaving the complex options for us vets, but giving new players some "training wheels"
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  9. #9
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    It's bad for the game, period.

    Things like this will drive even more people to NW2 regardless of it's lack of character customization & combat system.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    It's bad for the game, period.

    Things like this will drive even more people to NW2 regardless of it's lack of character customization & combat system.
    Why? it's an option not a replacement.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    This . . . the pre-set chracter paths are SO BAD . . . first time players need all the help they can get.

    I like the complex options we have for character creation but that has the negative effects of making it too easy to build a gimp. They stated they are leaving the complex options for us vets, but giving new players some "training wheels"
    Then lets fix the paths!

    Maybe have a path system that has limited choices but still some choices that will make sure you will have a viable toon?

    Pop up hints or auto-critiques maybe? "Even a wizard needs health! Are you sure you want to set your constitution to 6? <Click Yes to continue>"

    Why level 15?

    Why is that a good idea?

    Other than to sell the forgotten Realms o/c which is a good idea (no sarcasm).

    There has to be a better way, like making low level FR content, then starting people at 15.
    .
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  12. #12
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Oh so their just making new pre-made paths...it was slightly interesting when I thought you could screw around as Regis or Bruenor now I've lost all interest
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    Then lets fix the paths!
    That would require them to actually play the game, understand what works, and know how to build good characters. if you've ever seen a gameplay video of the devs you'd understand why that can't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    Maybe have a path system that has limited choices but still some choices that will make sure you will have a viable toon?
    See above



    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    Why is that a good idea?

    Other than to sell the forgotten Realms o/c which is a good idea (no sarcasm).

    There has to be a better way, like making low level FR content, then starting people at 15.
    .
    The future of the game is FR. Eberon's done, the story is over. We just defeated the Truthful One.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    That would require them to actually play the game, understand what works, and know how to build good characters. if you've ever seen a gameplay video of the devs you'd understand why that can't work. See above The future of the game is FR. Eberon's done, the story is over. We just defeated the Truthful One.
    Um, your argument makes null and void the possibility of any changes to DDO including the iconic heroes system you are supporting.

    If they can't get the one right because they don't play then they won't get the new one right either so that's a bit of a logic fail.

    So assuming they can do something right, which I believe they can do and also is required for this or any changes to successfully happen, then why not fix the paths?

    Why level 15?

    If Ebberron is dead (wait wasn't the very last update Eberron ah nvm) why not make low level FR content?
    .
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  15. #15
    Community Member Kilbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    Um, your argument makes null and void the possibility of any changes to DDO including the iconic heroes system you are supporting.

    If they can't get the one right because they don't play then they won't get the new one right either so that's a bit of a logic fail.

    So assuming they can do something right, which I believe they can do and also is required for this or any changes to successfully happen, then why not fix the paths?

    Why level 15?

    If Ebberron is dead (wait wasn't the very last update Eberron ah nvm) why not make low level FR content?
    .
    Philly, you are literally talking to an Ape Man. Why are you surprised that there's logic fail involved?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbar View Post
    Philly, you are literally talking to an Ape Man. Why are you surprised that there's logic fail involved?
    I LIKE Ape Man.

    He has gone out of his way to answer my questions with PMs and stuff.

    I just disagree with every word he ever says, that's all. (joking...sort of)


    .
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  17. #17
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Oh so their just making new pre-made paths...it was slightly interesting when I thought you could screw around as Regis or Bruenor now I've lost all interest
    Regis and Bruenor are pretty easy builds really.

    Regis = Halfling Rogue {No Prestige} - Possible Bard splash

    Bruenor = Dwarven Stalwart Defender 2 / Frenzied Berserker 1

    Neither were near Lvl 15 last I looked BUT 100 years have gone by after all!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    If Ebberron is dead (wait wasn't the very last update Eberron ah nvm) why not make low level FR content?
    .
    We'll see that next.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
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  19. #19
    Community Member Kilbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    I LIKE Ape Man.

    He has gone out of his way to answer my questions with PMs and stuff.

    I just disagree with every word he ever says, that's all. (joking...sort of)


    .
    Oh, I haven't been active in the forums long enough to have acquired the distaste for him that some seem to have, I was just noting his chosen name and pointing out that Australopithecines aren't known for their deep thinking.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    Um, your argument makes null and void the possibility of any changes to DDO including the iconic heroes system you are supporting.

    If they can't get the one right because they don't play then they won't get the new one right either so that's a bit of a logic fail.

    So assuming they can do something right, which I believe they can do and also is required for this or any changes to successfully happen, then why not fix the paths?

    Why level 15?
    I suspect the Iconic heroes will have some 'cheats' in them to make up for a lot as well as some excellent twink gear and built-int tomes. This is all conjecture.

    level 15 is when the FR content starts (Druid's pack non-epic).
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

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